Senior Ladies SP
- Thread starter ForeverFish
- Start date
- Joined
- May 4, 2013
- Joined
- May 4, 2013
has anyone found Christina Gao's SP anywhere on yt? 
I can't wait to slap my forehead when I see her step sequence!
also: who are the 2 commentators? the woman either doesn't know too much about URs or she's been told ahead of time just how generous the technical panel would be... She kept on saying "perfect, no problem whatsoever,..." on slow-motions of jumps that were borderline and beyond!
I can't wait to slap my forehead when I see her step sequence!
also: who are the 2 commentators? the woman either doesn't know too much about URs or she's been told ahead of time just how generous the technical panel would be... She kept on saying "perfect, no problem whatsoever,..." on slow-motions of jumps that were borderline and beyond!
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
What a shock to wake up to Ashley in 4th. Gracie in 1st does not surprise me. Thrilled for Maira and Polina!
Now my coffee is just about done brewing and I will read through this thread for the details of the competition as
I missed it last night.
Now my coffee is just about done brewing and I will read through this thread for the details of the competition as
I missed it last night.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
I'm not so sure about that at all.
The handwriting is on the wall, and has been for a while - you better bring a 3-3 combination. I know Ashley has done that on the GP, but has she ever done it at US Nat's or World's (honest question... I don't recall)? Assuming the current top 3 bring another one (or two) in the LP, and Ashley doesn't and can't make up the deficit... will they still send her?
Of course, we still have most of the competition ahead of us, but should the standings remain where they are, I'm not sure they would send Wagner ahead of Nagasu, and I REALLY don't think they'd leave the silver medalist at home in favor of the 4th place finisher.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2007
It's not a question of who is Ashley Wagner. It's a question of who is the most likely to ensure the US retains three spots next year. Ashley Wagner is far more likely to do that than someone like Mirai Nagasu. The US rules allow for skaters outside the top 3 to make it to worlds, and it's happened in the past for one reason or another. These rules ensure that year after year, skaters who have been consistently competitive all year long, and therefore are the most deserving of a chance at the top competitions, get to go. These girls are all well aware of those rules.
I suspect that Gracie, Ashley, and Polina will be going to olympics/worlds, unless Polina falls out of medal contention. In all likelihood Polina and/or Mirai will fall behind Ashley in the LP anyway, making this debate irrelevant.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
I'm now thinking Polina could win the whole thing. She has had some good LP's this season. We all know Gracie has had her problems in the LP. It seems like Mirai and Ashley will fight for the third spot. Who would have thought.
Now that everyone's sleeping it off and I can get onto GS, I've read through all the performance reports. Thanks to the GS reporters! Lots of surprises. It's great to hear that Gao and Mirai did so well. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to see a really definitive win from someone in the long program.
Polina's the third highest PCS?
Why not? Nice clean skating of Polina with most difficult content (BV is second after Gracie, jumping content is even more difficult than Gracie's).
Who else may pretend to higher PCS? Mirai? May be. But she only. Others have not so good skating and/or several mistakes.
Okay now that I have had some time to process what I saw in the arena last night, here are a few notes.
I will say it now: Gracie was overscored, IMO. That performance should have received 70ish at best. It's a pretty program, but now have see it live, I will agree with comments that she isn't so much emoting but just going through the motions of hte program. My husband said that it was a "utility program." The jumps and spins were impressive and merit the high TES, but definitely not nearly 32 PCS.
In my opinion Mirai should had been first, actually. They really low-balled her in PCS. She had some beautiful choreography, nice in-betweens and she really connected with the audience. She got more of a standing ovation than Gracie did. So nobody can use the "she was lifeless in her performance" excuse.
Ashley's score, IMO, was actually about right and given the amount of inflation Gracie got, I would have been fine if she got someting in the 66 range and was closer to Polina. I am not predicting gloom and doom for her yet. It's worth noting she is only 2 points behind Polina despite doing only a 3-2. I felt she fought through the entire program and did not give up.
Polina is very impressive. I'd say, her PCS should have been below Mirai (again namely cause Mirai's should have been higher) but Polina has very great ice coverage and does a good job performing her choreography.
As for the other performances:
Despite the low score, Rachael's performance was actually quite enjoyable to watch. You knew she wasn't going to score well due to the levels (and obviously popping the lutz) but she definitely connected with the audience and while not as good, the spread eagles she did at the end had that haunting, compelling quality that reminded me of Jonathan Cassar's.
I really enjoyed was Hannah Miller. I actually think she was a bit low balled in PCS as well. She actually covers the ice quite well with her choreography and has a lot of good upper body movement and her speed is quite solid. Christina was great and I can see great improvements in her SP since I saw it at Skate America in 2012; the errors were really quite unfortunate. Mariah Bell was lovely; she's so fun to watch but she definitely needs a little more power in her skating. Ashley Cain was great as well, she probably was low balled a bit due to going first.
I will say it now: Gracie was overscored, IMO. That performance should have received 70ish at best. It's a pretty program, but now have see it live, I will agree with comments that she isn't so much emoting but just going through the motions of hte program. My husband said that it was a "utility program." The jumps and spins were impressive and merit the high TES, but definitely not nearly 32 PCS.
In my opinion Mirai should had been first, actually. They really low-balled her in PCS. She had some beautiful choreography, nice in-betweens and she really connected with the audience. She got more of a standing ovation than Gracie did. So nobody can use the "she was lifeless in her performance" excuse.
Ashley's score, IMO, was actually about right and given the amount of inflation Gracie got, I would have been fine if she got someting in the 66 range and was closer to Polina. I am not predicting gloom and doom for her yet. It's worth noting she is only 2 points behind Polina despite doing only a 3-2. I felt she fought through the entire program and did not give up.
Polina is very impressive. I'd say, her PCS should have been below Mirai (again namely cause Mirai's should have been higher) but Polina has very great ice coverage and does a good job performing her choreography.
As for the other performances:
Despite the low score, Rachael's performance was actually quite enjoyable to watch. You knew she wasn't going to score well due to the levels (and obviously popping the lutz) but she definitely connected with the audience and while not as good, the spread eagles she did at the end had that haunting, compelling quality that reminded me of Jonathan Cassar's.
I really enjoyed was Hannah Miller. I actually think she was a bit low balled in PCS as well. She actually covers the ice quite well with her choreography and has a lot of good upper body movement and her speed is quite solid. Christina was great and I can see great improvements in her SP since I saw it at Skate America in 2012; the errors were really quite unfortunate. Mariah Bell was lovely; she's so fun to watch but she definitely needs a little more power in her skating. Ashley Cain was great as well, she probably was low balled a bit due to going first.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
And, I have to say that I disagree with Gold's PCS, too: how could they give her high 8s and 9s??! 
Excellent elements, well-choreographed program, good SS, but if we talk about interpretation, emotional involvement in the choreography, arm movements, facial expressions... well, she looked almost deaf (in Lipnitskaya's Nutcracker style) during the first minute of the program, and even the second half (the powerful part, which suits her well) was not really "sold"; the best moment of the program, for me, artistically, was after the 2A, but that kind of aggressive-powerful facial expression/body language should have been mantained during the step sequence and until the end of the program, and she didn't... For me SS should have been 8+ for sure (a bit more of edging could bring her 9s), but PE (which includes "emotional and intellectual involvement" and "style and individuality/personality"), CH and IN should have been not higher than mid-7s. If you give 32.20 to Ashley, you can't give 31.78 to Gracie!!
Excellent elements, well-choreographed program, good SS, but if we talk about interpretation, emotional involvement in the choreography, arm movements, facial expressions... well, she looked almost deaf (in Lipnitskaya's Nutcracker style) during the first minute of the program, and even the second half (the powerful part, which suits her well) was not really "sold"; the best moment of the program, for me, artistically, was after the 2A, but that kind of aggressive-powerful facial expression/body language should have been mantained during the step sequence and until the end of the program, and she didn't... For me SS should have been 8+ for sure (a bit more of edging could bring her 9s), but PE (which includes "emotional and intellectual involvement" and "style and individuality/personality"), CH and IN should have been not higher than mid-7s. If you give 32.20 to Ashley, you can't give 31.78 to Gracie!!
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
Yay! Forum's back, and thanks for the yt vids, everyone!
Just some subjective/gut responses to seeing the skates for the first time (no re-watching yet):
Gracie -- love her. I liked the first SP quite well but this one is easier for the viewer to interpret and fall for. I actually think she is coming along quite well in terms of polish and interpretation. She's much more refined than a couple of the Russian wunderkinds, and I think/hope is right on course for a long and successful career. She looked so happy with her performance and I hope she can maintain a calm confidence going in to the LP and beyond.
Ashley -- although I agree she is a long shot even for a bronze on the world/Olympic stage, still I do think she put out a nice, mature, well-rounded program. I actually didn't think, watching the opening combo, that she was electing from the start to do a triple-double. To me it looked like the first jump almost went out of control and she was scrambling a bit to tack on the second jump. But my technical knowledge is pretty minimal compared to lots on this board, so I dunno. She got in control after that and didn't stop selling for one second, and I think that is not trivial, her ability to keep her cool after a mistake. I hope she has a fantastic long and well remember past years when should would have really dismal shorts and still lay down spectacular longs. I hope she does that again on Saturday.
Polina -- I see the sass, but I'm not sure I would have had her PCS so high. The program is a bit choreographically empty, I think, and man, she telegraphs her jumps like 6.0 on a bad day. Still looks a bit coltish/juniorish. I'm neutrally interested in what she does on Saturday.
Mirai -- great performance! SO SO SO THRILLED for her! Many nice things about this performance; overall she was world class. I will say, though, that I thought her old spark was only partially back. I don't expect her to plaster a smile on her face that never changes throughout any performance, and she was no robot like she has been, but I guess I'm just not convinced yet that this is a true return to form. I hope she pummels my doubts on Saturday, though.
My dream team for the Olys is Gracie, Ashley, Mirai. If Edmunds does well technically, grand, but I want to see senior-level choreo and presentation for senior-level scores. She is someone to watch for the near future, though, maybe this Worlds if she doesn't go to the Olympics?
Flatt -- wow, it is fascinating to me to see Flatt garnering so much praise on the forums given responses to her as she was declining in her performances a few seasons ago. It's quite ironic for me because I am not nearly the fan of hers that I was before she divided her time between skating and school. When she was competing full time on the senior circuit, I really thought she was underappreciated because of her style and body type and so forth. I wasn't in the camp that felt she was hugely overscored at the 2010 Nats over Mirai -- I liked her athletic style and thought it was different from Mirai's elegance but not less appealing. And the mystery UR calls in Vancouver were questionable, I thought. But when she decided on full time schooling in such an intensive way, basically dividing her loyalties and energies, as a fan, I lost interest in her. I think it's fine if she wants to putz around at a few comps and stutter into Nationals, but can't imagine why. If she wants to skate for the love of skating there are other venues for that. For me, again just subjective reactions and the fun of analyzing athletic performances like fans of any other sport -- YAWN. If you want to be an international caliber skater, give it your heart. If not, there are plenty of other venues. Regardless, though, it is nice to see her getting praise on the forums for what she is doing. I'm not wanting to see her vilified or anything, I just don't have any fan-dom invested in her any more. But she was roundly criticized on the forums just a few seasons ago, so ... interesting.
Just some subjective/gut responses to seeing the skates for the first time (no re-watching yet):
Gracie -- love her. I liked the first SP quite well but this one is easier for the viewer to interpret and fall for. I actually think she is coming along quite well in terms of polish and interpretation. She's much more refined than a couple of the Russian wunderkinds, and I think/hope is right on course for a long and successful career. She looked so happy with her performance and I hope she can maintain a calm confidence going in to the LP and beyond.
Ashley -- although I agree she is a long shot even for a bronze on the world/Olympic stage, still I do think she put out a nice, mature, well-rounded program. I actually didn't think, watching the opening combo, that she was electing from the start to do a triple-double. To me it looked like the first jump almost went out of control and she was scrambling a bit to tack on the second jump. But my technical knowledge is pretty minimal compared to lots on this board, so I dunno. She got in control after that and didn't stop selling for one second, and I think that is not trivial, her ability to keep her cool after a mistake. I hope she has a fantastic long and well remember past years when should would have really dismal shorts and still lay down spectacular longs. I hope she does that again on Saturday.
Polina -- I see the sass, but I'm not sure I would have had her PCS so high. The program is a bit choreographically empty, I think, and man, she telegraphs her jumps like 6.0 on a bad day. Still looks a bit coltish/juniorish. I'm neutrally interested in what she does on Saturday.
Mirai -- great performance! SO SO SO THRILLED for her! Many nice things about this performance; overall she was world class. I will say, though, that I thought her old spark was only partially back. I don't expect her to plaster a smile on her face that never changes throughout any performance, and she was no robot like she has been, but I guess I'm just not convinced yet that this is a true return to form. I hope she pummels my doubts on Saturday, though.
My dream team for the Olys is Gracie, Ashley, Mirai. If Edmunds does well technically, grand, but I want to see senior-level choreo and presentation for senior-level scores. She is someone to watch for the near future, though, maybe this Worlds if she doesn't go to the Olympics?
Flatt -- wow, it is fascinating to me to see Flatt garnering so much praise on the forums given responses to her as she was declining in her performances a few seasons ago. It's quite ironic for me because I am not nearly the fan of hers that I was before she divided her time between skating and school. When she was competing full time on the senior circuit, I really thought she was underappreciated because of her style and body type and so forth. I wasn't in the camp that felt she was hugely overscored at the 2010 Nats over Mirai -- I liked her athletic style and thought it was different from Mirai's elegance but not less appealing. And the mystery UR calls in Vancouver were questionable, I thought. But when she decided on full time schooling in such an intensive way, basically dividing her loyalties and energies, as a fan, I lost interest in her. I think it's fine if she wants to putz around at a few comps and stutter into Nationals, but can't imagine why. If she wants to skate for the love of skating there are other venues for that. For me, again just subjective reactions and the fun of analyzing athletic performances like fans of any other sport -- YAWN. If you want to be an international caliber skater, give it your heart. If not, there are plenty of other venues. Regardless, though, it is nice to see her getting praise on the forums for what she is doing. I'm not wanting to see her vilified or anything, I just don't have any fan-dom invested in her any more. But she was roundly criticized on the forums just a few seasons ago, so ... interesting.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
I know Frank Caroll is the master but he packaged Gold as Cinderella, pretty music, ban and a great dress, I m not keen on this style!
I m so happy for Mirai, that was the best skate I ve seen of her lately, her arms are really nice and expressive. I didnt know she doesnt have a coach yet! Rebel girl!
I hope Wagner rebounces, I want to see her in SOchi!
I m so happy for Mirai, that was the best skate I ve seen of her lately, her arms are really nice and expressive. I didnt know she doesnt have a coach yet! Rebel girl!
I hope Wagner rebounces, I want to see her in SOchi!
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I have to disagree with some of what you said. Gracie's score was inflated, maybe she should be around 69. However, her lead over the others should be bigger. Mirai got away with two obvious URs - the 3R and the second 3T. You can actually see the hook in real time, and I paused the video of her 3R toe pick touching the ice when she was facing the camera (almost a full 1/2 short). Ashley also go away with a clear < on the 2A. Polina's PCS is also too high for what she would get internationally.
I think the team will be Ashley, Gracie and Mirai if the judges don't scrutinize < in the LP, and probably Polina instead of Mirai if they do.
As I said, Gracie's TES is justified; I have no problem with that. But what I'm saying is that Mirai should have gotten better PCS than Gracie or at least equal. So I think it would have cancelled out anyway if you account for Mirai's URs.
I do admit that probably some of my reaction to Gracie's program probably is the fact that I expected a lot more than I got. No doubt she has great ice coverage and speed and the jumps and spins are fantastic and the program itself is solid but I just felt something was missing for me. Can't really explain it.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
has anyone found Christina Gao's SP anywhere on yt?
I can't wait to slap my forehead when I see her step sequence!
also: who are the 2 commentators? the woman either doesn't know too much about URs or she's been told ahead of time just how generous the technical panel would be... She kept on saying "perfect, no problem whatsoever,..." on slow-motions of jumps that were borderline and beyond!
I was wondering the same thing about the "perfect" comments for UR'ed jumps -- the commentator sounds like Tara Lipinski.
BTW, pet peeve and random snark -- "podium" is a noun, not a verb!
I know I'll see "wanting to podium" "who will podium" etc. a million times before the season is over, and I won't mention it again. But I have to snark about it just the once!- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I agree, there is something unnatural about her movement for me. While I don't like this type of program for her, she did skate it better than she has in the past. Relative to her other "pretty princess" programs this was an improvement.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
Quick thoughts now, full recap on my blog on Monday (or Tuesday)
Gracie: I do think she was a bit overscored, but this is nationals, they want her on that team, etc. so I'm not surprised. I'd have had her under 71. It was a good performance and she looked beautiful. Kudos to Frank on the change...I didn't think it was a good idea but they made it happen. Huge opening lutz (almost too big, she had pause a second to gain control for the 3T), nice spins, overall a very nice performance. She delivered the program better than I thought though I still don't think she really connects with what she's doing. Doesn't matter though...at least she looks better and more polished doing it. She's skating last in the FS which is going to be a massive test for her. She's got a comfy lead so as long as she holds it together she should stay on the podium.
Polina: Great to see her debut so strongly! That was the best I've seen her all year. Her 3-3 looked gorgeous (no question of UR there) and she sold her program very well. I don't know if she'll hold up under the pressure in the FS. She's had clean FS before on the JGP but not under the pressure of the senior nationals/Olympic trials. She's definitely thrown a wrench into this year's standings...I love it!
Mirai: That's 3 strong performances in a row for Mirai. This one was better than COR b/c she gave a lot more personality and looked to be much more engaged in the choreography and the audience. I saw a little bit of that sparkle that's been missing. She maxed her levels on everything and nailed her elements. I'm proud of her. I do think the judges kept her low in PCS (I'd have given her 29) but that's okay. A solid FS will surely change their minds. They don't want to give Mirai too much room b/c when they do she often flubs...let her earn it. If she's clean tomorrow, I think her PCS will be higher.
Ashley: Much better than the SP 4 years ago at this event. That was the first time she failed to attempt the 3-3 all season long...I think she was really nervous. She finished up the rest of the program well, so that's good. I was shocked to see them place her below Mirai. The good news is Ashley usually skates extremely well when coming from behind. I think the prospect of being left off of the team will light a fire under her butt and she'll go balls-to-the-wall in the FS. I still think if she misses the podium she should be on the team...she's earned it...
Christina: Great skate and then lost focus and almost fell not once but twice in the footwork...I'd be crushed if she ended up 5th again.
Hannah: Great energy in her program but unfortunate fall at the end...
Leah: Good to see her back. Her jumps look much better than I remember...
Samantha: I love her sass and her performance ability but she has to work on her speed and spins if she wants to break into the top tier.
Angela: More disappointment. I think her SP is simply gorgeous but her lack of focus with her jumps is going to prevent her from ever standing on the podium in this event.
Kiri: I loved the energy and fire in her "Dark Eyes" performance. Sasha Cohen would be proud...
Agnes: I was shocked to see her scores. Even with the popped lutz and shaky axel, I expected her to score around 59 or 60 given how they've been scoring her the last few years. It's clear her love affair with the USFSA is over; they dumped her. She got 30.37 in PCS with a fall last year...this year they knock her down to 25. That was pretty shocking for her. I'm just glad Mirai delivered in her SP. If she'd have messed up like Agnes, she'd be right down there with her...
Caroline: It's good to see her here but she has not improved...
Rachael: Very interesting program...better suited for an exhibition IMO but it was nice. The music made me feel kind of sad though. Not her best but I think she's just there for the experience.
The results were pretty shocking. I didn't expect Ashley to place 4th or Polina to be 2nd but that's why I love figure skating. Anyone can have a good day. Time for battle. 3 spots on the line, 4 skaters in contention...oooh, the drama! I love it!
Gracie: I do think she was a bit overscored, but this is nationals, they want her on that team, etc. so I'm not surprised. I'd have had her under 71. It was a good performance and she looked beautiful. Kudos to Frank on the change...I didn't think it was a good idea but they made it happen. Huge opening lutz (almost too big, she had pause a second to gain control for the 3T), nice spins, overall a very nice performance. She delivered the program better than I thought though I still don't think she really connects with what she's doing. Doesn't matter though...at least she looks better and more polished doing it. She's skating last in the FS which is going to be a massive test for her. She's got a comfy lead so as long as she holds it together she should stay on the podium.
Polina: Great to see her debut so strongly! That was the best I've seen her all year. Her 3-3 looked gorgeous (no question of UR there) and she sold her program very well. I don't know if she'll hold up under the pressure in the FS. She's had clean FS before on the JGP but not under the pressure of the senior nationals/Olympic trials. She's definitely thrown a wrench into this year's standings...I love it!
Mirai: That's 3 strong performances in a row for Mirai. This one was better than COR b/c she gave a lot more personality and looked to be much more engaged in the choreography and the audience. I saw a little bit of that sparkle that's been missing. She maxed her levels on everything and nailed her elements. I'm proud of her. I do think the judges kept her low in PCS (I'd have given her 29) but that's okay. A solid FS will surely change their minds. They don't want to give Mirai too much room b/c when they do she often flubs...let her earn it. If she's clean tomorrow, I think her PCS will be higher.
Ashley: Much better than the SP 4 years ago at this event. That was the first time she failed to attempt the 3-3 all season long...I think she was really nervous. She finished up the rest of the program well, so that's good. I was shocked to see them place her below Mirai. The good news is Ashley usually skates extremely well when coming from behind. I think the prospect of being left off of the team will light a fire under her butt and she'll go balls-to-the-wall in the FS. I still think if she misses the podium she should be on the team...she's earned it...
Christina: Great skate and then lost focus and almost fell not once but twice in the footwork...I'd be crushed if she ended up 5th again.
Hannah: Great energy in her program but unfortunate fall at the end...
Leah: Good to see her back. Her jumps look much better than I remember...
Samantha: I love her sass and her performance ability but she has to work on her speed and spins if she wants to break into the top tier.
Angela: More disappointment. I think her SP is simply gorgeous but her lack of focus with her jumps is going to prevent her from ever standing on the podium in this event.
Kiri: I loved the energy and fire in her "Dark Eyes" performance. Sasha Cohen would be proud...
Agnes: I was shocked to see her scores. Even with the popped lutz and shaky axel, I expected her to score around 59 or 60 given how they've been scoring her the last few years. It's clear her love affair with the USFSA is over; they dumped her. She got 30.37 in PCS with a fall last year...this year they knock her down to 25. That was pretty shocking for her. I'm just glad Mirai delivered in her SP. If she'd have messed up like Agnes, she'd be right down there with her...
Caroline: It's good to see her here but she has not improved...
Rachael: Very interesting program...better suited for an exhibition IMO but it was nice. The music made me feel kind of sad though. Not her best but I think she's just there for the experience.
The results were pretty shocking. I didn't expect Ashley to place 4th or Polina to be 2nd but that's why I love figure skating. Anyone can have a good day. Time for battle. 3 spots on the line, 4 skaters in contention...oooh, the drama! I love it!
