- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
Adelina had this evening 7 triple jumps , and Yuna 6 , a better layback spin... anyway I enjoyed their free programs, but prefered Adelina 's short program , BUT I do not like a such difference between them.
The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
- Start date
The circumstantial evidence is mounting. It was not difficult to show absurdity of the scores to even non skating fans in my experience. I won't list everything that has been said so far for another time, but those who frequent this forum should have an idea what has happened. Whether they believe it is something this sport should just deal with as a matter of course, or they believe it is an egregious and harmful culture that needs addressing if the sport is to survive, can perhaps be disputed.
Arguments are made from both sides, and everyone is entitled to their opinions. My opinion is that this should not be repeated. Results may not be revoked and that is fully understandable. But leaving it as it is will guarantee repeats. There needs to be a system in place that is more transparent, accountable, and less prone to bias. If you want to take for granted favoritism motivated by tribalism is a matter of life and you can't (and shouldn't) do anything about it in the Olympics, then go ahead and say so. I can agree to disagree. But please do not put lipstick on a pig as if these scores were given proportional to the skater's merits and performances in Feb 18/19 in 2014. You know they weren't.
Arguments are made from both sides, and everyone is entitled to their opinions. My opinion is that this should not be repeated. Results may not be revoked and that is fully understandable. But leaving it as it is will guarantee repeats. There needs to be a system in place that is more transparent, accountable, and less prone to bias. If you want to take for granted favoritism motivated by tribalism is a matter of life and you can't (and shouldn't) do anything about it in the Olympics, then go ahead and say so. I can agree to disagree. But please do not put lipstick on a pig as if these scores were given proportional to the skater's merits and performances in Feb 18/19 in 2014. You know they weren't.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2011
Yeah, I think she is not realistic about her place in the top tier and the fact that she has a lot to improve on still if she wants to make the podium at major international events. I think she was (rightly) heartened by her progress and ascent, and assumed she could just keep ascending, perhaps riding a JuLip esque PCS wave. However, the fact is, her jumps (while consistently landed) are generally mediocre, and she does not have a fully rotated triple triple when it is called correctly. She just does not. Her spins are also mediocre and she struggles to get level 4 on them- often, too often for someone who wants to actually land on podium at major international events, she gets level 2. Until she improves all of this, she will continue to rely on the mistakes of others for high placements on the GP and at Worlds. She only places as high as she does generally because she often goes clean in a very unclean field.
Additionally, she is in denial I think about her PCS which also need work. in the team event I did think they were too low relative to others but the truth is her basis SS are good, her choreography is acceptable, and her transitions are very good. Her PE and IN are also good sometimes very good. There is not a single category, IMO, where she is currently 'excellent' and not in need of improvement if she wants to break through further.
I wouldn't say I am a Ashley fan, but I respect her greatly and am no hater. She pulled herself up through sheer hard work and courageous life changes, and I can't not respect and value that. But she probably has a lot more hard work ahead of her if she ever wants to even be US #1 again, and she definitely does if she wants to contend for a World podium (again, barring major mistakes by others).
I really suspect that USFS and Russian federation worked together to fix the results, as the French newspaper reported. There's just too much smoke here, especially with Gracie's score.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
Don't you think that Hanyu was rewarded with an inflated score ?
Do you think that Lysacek deserved the gold in Vancouver 2010 , without or even with a quad ?
Can you explain why Belbin/Agosto (196.06) were silver at JO 2006 in Turin , while Denkova/Satvisky (189.53) were 5th ....then , one month later, Denkova/Stavisky became world champions with 199.14 , while Belbin / Agosto were third with 196.74 ?
Do you think that Lysacek deserved the gold in Vancouver 2010 , without or even with a quad ?
Can you explain why Belbin/Agosto (196.06) were silver at JO 2006 in Turin , while Denkova/Satvisky (189.53) were 5th ....then , one month later, Denkova/Stavisky became world champions with 199.14 , while Belbin / Agosto were third with 196.74 ?
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
Even though Ashley is wrong about her own judging, she does have a point about the system as a whole. I believe that in her position she is the best person to speak out, as she is not a medal contender and doesn't have much to lose.
P.S. Ashley also received 2 points higher in the individual than in the team event, although she performed better in the team event.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
"The Korea Union said that Cinquanta told them he would look into the matter." Yes, I'm sure Cinquanta will "get back to them" like he promises everyone else.
- Joined
- May 19, 2011
I think we can agree that the scoring as a whole was bad in this competition. People were inflated and others held down. Again, something we see a lot though I will admit, this is to a different degree.
Say what you will about Ashley but she's right: they really need to do away with anonymous judging. Every person should be accountable for every mark. The marks are anonymous and randomized which means there's no possible way to tie each judge to their scores. Cinquanta has already said unless someone comes forth with a "credible" complaint (ie. not a petition signed by 2 million South Koreans) they have no plans to investigate. He stood behind the judges that were selected and the results as they are. Unless something comes out like it did in 2002 with the SLC judge coming forward and admitting to it, I don't see the ISU doing anything about this. I wonder what (if anything) he's going to do in terms of looking into for the Korean Federation? How much pull do they have? :disapp:
I do hope (at least) they revamp the IJS a little bit. It's time...
Say what you will about Ashley but she's right: they really need to do away with anonymous judging. Every person should be accountable for every mark. The marks are anonymous and randomized which means there's no possible way to tie each judge to their scores. Cinquanta has already said unless someone comes forth with a "credible" complaint (ie. not a petition signed by 2 million South Koreans) they have no plans to investigate. He stood behind the judges that were selected and the results as they are. Unless something comes out like it did in 2002 with the SLC judge coming forward and admitting to it, I don't see the ISU doing anything about this. I wonder what (if anything) he's going to do in terms of looking into for the Korean Federation? How much pull do they have? :disapp:
I do hope (at least) they revamp the IJS a little bit. It's time...
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
Lipnitskaya über here and I've always maintained her lights out should be around 140 in the FS. I also think I'd score her in the area of 125 for yesterday. In the team she should have gotten 132-135 since it wasn't her best skate. But even though some think she has no artistry I strongly disagree. It may not be your cup of tea that's fine but she is definitely a top tier skater this season and emotes IMO just fine. She had arguably the best season with only Mao as her equal. I think a good portion of her PCS is deserved. But yes she received generous scores but watch her face ...she knows it. She really only cares if she skates well. I'm glad the skating gods knocked her over in the individual. I for one don't want her wining purely on inflation if that is indeed what happend. I still wonder though...if it were Yuna beating Caro for gold with a 149 would we have all these petitions and scandals?
The fix was obvious when they gave virtually the same score to Adelina as Yuna/Carolina for the SP. Those who try to make an argument with regard to the FS using TES willfully ignore the inexplicable scores (including TES) of the SP. I am still curious how step sequence levels were determined in such a strange fashion.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2003
Indeed; and this Cinquanta quote from the Chicago Tribune:
'One is a clear conflict of interest. The other is akin to having a bank rehire an employee caught for embezzling.
“Would you rather have an idiot acting as a judge than a good one who is a relative of the manager of a federation?” Cinquanta said. “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest.
“I can’t suspend a person for life for a minor violation. (Balkov) is a matter for the Ukraine federation, because they chose to send him.”'
Where does the buck stop? 'I'm ONLY the head of the ISU; I can't do anything, waaah!' And speaking of idiots serving in important positions...
That is a gross misread or a willful disregard of the states of affair. If you followed the thread, you will find all the circumstantial evidences that were brought up by knowledgeable folks. There may be biggots and those who speak out of emotions, but those are not a matter of disputes. And I strongly condemn those comments (Xenophobic or what not). The reason this is a controversy is because there are enough circumstantial evidence to question the scores among reasonable minds. People have been going through protocols many times over.
what evidence? Balkov and Alla?
Holy WOW. That was totally unexpected. Did not know Korea had such a bone, lol.
I don't think anyone (including Kim) should've scored a 149 for their programs last night. At this point, I would give the gold to Kim by a point to three over Kostner. Heck, I wouldn't mind Kostner getting the Gold, and Kim getting the Silver, but Adelina scoring above the two is absurd.
Again, I would like to have seen how the judging got fibbed around if Mao had skated a clean SP, and what the reactions would be if Adelina placed above her in the end.
