What did Sotnikova do wrong?

[kslr0816]

No, it's not. It's the same Olympics.
And I absolutely support rules that put more and more focus on the athletics and technicality rather than the artistry. The points vs 6.0 system was the step in that direction and I hope the evolution continues.

so you really think that was a 149.95 free skate?

Here's a question:

Do you think that the judges were planning to boost up Julia (if they were indeed crooked/fixing something, which is of course just conjecture), but when she fell, they just threw the points onto Adelina? I find it hard to believe that this girl was the "chosen" one when they didn't even want her to skate in the team program.

Agree she should have been scored lower in the short, with her easier combo, but since that was after Julia fell, maybe that was part of the "conspiracy?"

i think that's exactly what happened. they were so ready to medal ANY russian figure skater, thank god (for them) that adelina did as well as she did. like someone else said, judges took care of the rest.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

It's not "ice jumping"

My friend who is a non figure skater suggested jump offs.

Just like a hockey shoot out.

 

[caseyl23]

I had to watch the tape delay with Scott and Sandra because it stopped snowing and I had to go to work, finally . By the time I got to see it, I knew who won and how it was a travesty, apparently. I lost the "shock" value that I would have gotten if I had seen it live, so I am asking:

So what did she do wrong? She made a small mistake which couldn't be a big deduction (if a fall on a major jump in a 140 point program is minus 1 point, a step out on the third of a jump series shouldn't be more than .000001, seriously). She landed big jumps, spun well, and if she wasn't as musical as Carolina or Yuna, she wasn't like, I don't know, Tonya or Surya, either. She had some musicality at least. She was more flexible than Carolina and did one more jump than Yuna.

I agree she was overscored, and I understand why people are upset, but why is this particular decision the one that will destroy figure skating, instead of just another "could've gone either way" that didn't go the way some people wanted it to?

At the end of the day, it probably will end up as "could've gone either way," because the IOC doesn't seem to have any intent of seriously investigating it. That's unfortunate. I don't think this result can or should be overturned (unless there is definitive proof elements were called wrong or there was some sort of corruption), but I do think very firmly that the judges are coming out looking atrocious in this. We should never ever, ever see pictures of any judge hugging a skater after a competition in which that judge had just judged that skater. Judges suspended for corruption should not be allowed back in the sport, and judges should not have close ties to federation officials. If there aren't enough judges after that, find new ones and train them!

As for Adelina – unless she had direct knowledge of some plan to fix the competition (And let's face it, there's 0% chance of that – the Russian Federation would be idiots if they tried to fix the competition and then told any athlete about it.) she didn't do a thing wrong. She just went out and skated her best, and the judging happened to go in her favor. Tragically, too many casual fans don't seem to understand that she was just the beneficiary of close judging. Since she's the recognizable face on the "wrong" side of this "controversy," people are going to turn on her, because blaming relatively invisible judges or federation officials is too hard for some of them.

 

[Demandred]

No, it's not. It's the same Olympics.
And I absolutely support rules that put more and more focus on the athletics and technicality rather than the artistry. The points vs 6.0 system was the step in that direction and I hope the evolution continues.

Good for you, but this isn't what this thread is about. According to the current rules artistry should matter a lot.

Anyway, personally I have nothing but praise for Adelina, she gave her best and dealt amazingly well with the huge pressure on her shoulders. The abuse hurled at her is really shameful. Blame the judges and the ISU, not her.

 

[Manitou]

so you really think that was a 149.95 free skate?

If I had answer to this I would be a skating judge. But I am not and I leave it up to them. And I am sure they have spreadsheets to justify it.
All I know Adelina had technically more difficult program and she performed it. And because after the short they were tied that difference was all that mattered. Math is simple. You can rant about your fave losing, but math is math. It has no emotions.

 

[Ophelia]

If I had answer to this I would be a skating judge. But I am not and I leave it up to them. And I am sure they have spreadsheets to justify it.
All I know Adelina had technically more difficult program and she performed it. And because after the short they were tied that difference was all that mattered. Math is simple. You can rant about your fave losing, but math is math. It has no emotions.

But how you ARRIVE at your numbers is up to question, and is based on subjectivity.

 

[bonniesin]

skated like a truck driver

 

[caseyl23]

Here's a question:

Do you think that the judges were planning to boost up Julia (if they were indeed crooked/fixing something, which is of course just conjecture), but when she fell, they just threw the points onto Adelina? I find it hard to believe that this girl was the "chosen" one when they didn't even want her to skate in the team program.

Agree she should have been scored lower in the short, with her easier combo, but since that was after Julia fell, maybe that was part of the "conspiracy?"

If I was with the Russian Federation, that wouldn't have been my strategy at all, especially after last year's world championships, where Adelina and Elizaveta had to have been expected to perform better than they did. I can't speak for any of them, but since Julia hadn't skated in a World Championship before, I'd have done exactly what they did – put her in the team event, with the friendlier atmosphere and try to get any nerves she may have out of her before the individual event. Adelina was the veteran on the team – she didn't need that kind of boost.
And as it turned out, the "snub" had the added purpose of making Adelina mad, so she skated lights out later on. And given the support she's gotten from the Federation, I honestly don't think Julia would have beaten her, even if they'd both been clean. After all, she already had her gold medal, and what was better for the Federation – one Olympic champion or two?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Some are acting as though she didn't land a 3Z+3T and 2A+3T.

The 3Toe on the end of her 3Lz was clearly underrotated, just as it always has been in her entire career whenever she has attempted it. She has always had a technique issue on it and was better at doing 3Lz+3Lo, but she started getting even worse underrotation calls on her 3Lz+3Lo and dropped it.

I agree she was overscored, and I understand why people are upset, but why is this particular decision the one that will destroy figure skating, instead of just another "could've gone either way" that didn't go the way some people wanted it to?

If it "could have gone either way", Sotnikova only should have been a point or two ahead of Yu-Na in the LP. But she was 6 points ahead. That's the issue...she was just blatantly overmarked across the board in the most extreme way we've ever seen.

 

[chuckm]

I do believe that after Julia fell in the SP and her OGM hopes died, Adelina immediately "inherited" the OGM-candidate mantle. After her SP skate, she inherited the inflated PCS scores that Julia would have received had she skated perfectly. OTOH, YuNa had been underscored in PCS because she skated early in the competition order. The PCS chips were stacked against YuNa well before the FS.

 

[Manitou]

But how you ARRIVE at your numbers is up to question, and is based on subjectivity.

Judges don't sit and debate as to whom give the medal, but they just sit and push buttons on their screens with numbers following very strict rules. They don't pull things out of their asses. I am not even sure they can communicate during the performance, can they? They just enter numbers according to what they see and whatever comes up stands as the final result. I don't know what the exact process it. Anybody knows?
Accusation of corruption is a very serious thing and to dare to do it requires very serious proofs. If there is a proof of corruption then it should be investigated. But if there is no proof, but just emotional fan rants, then everybody should shut up and take a pill.

 

[Ophelia]

Judges don't sit and debate as to whom give the medal, but they just sit and push buttons on their screens with numbers following very strict rules. They don't pull things out of their asses. I am not even sure they can communicate during the performance, can they? They just enter numbers according to what they see and whatever comes up stands as the final result. I don't know what the exact process it. Anybody knows?
Accusation of corruption is a very serious thing and to dare to do it requires very serious proofs. If there is a proof of corruption then it should be investigated. But if there is no
proof, but just emotional fan rants, then everybody should shut up and take a pill.

Do you even follow FS at all?

Also, an investigation needs to be launched to find proof, which is what people are calling for.

Do you also consider sports commentators, Olympic officials, and current and ex-skaters to all be indulging in "emotional fan rants"?

 

[Rachmaninoff]

Here's a question:

Do you think that the judges were planning to boost up Julia (if they were indeed crooked/fixing something, which is of course just conjecture), but when she fell, they just threw the points onto Adelina? I find it hard to believe that this girl was the "chosen" one when they didn't even want her to skate in the team program.

I don't think they were that picky about which one they boosted, or that they planned this exact result. But they both got quite a boost compared to where they were scoring all year, even with solid skates. Julia didn't make podium, but still scored 135 in her free with mistakes. People have been talking about the Russians scoring oddly high in general in all events. V&T getting +GOE for a throw with a hand down, Plushy placing first in the men's free in team with a pretty empty program and some doubled jumps, I&K's free dance score suddenly shooting up to score 110+...there just wasn't much of an outcry then because people accepted the final results, even if the actual scores were strangely high. That's the only thing that's changed now.

If Julia had gone clean, they may well have both ended up on the podium.

Accusation of corruption is a very serious thing and to dare to do it requires very serious proofs. If there is a proof of corruption then it should be investigated. But if there is no proof, but just emotional fan rants, then everybody should shut up and take a pill.

How are you supposed to have "proof" before an investigation? The whole point of an investigation is in order to obtain evidence. You don't need it in order to investigate, just reason to be suspicious. Which there certainly is.

 

[pangtongfan]

So Russian skaters now have such an advantage in bribes and behind the scene deals unless they do something majorly "wrong" they cant ever lose. What did Kim and Kostner do wrong? Nothing, except not being from the right country.

 

[Krislite]

Judges don't sit and debate as to whom give the medal, but they just sit and push buttons on their screens with numbers following very strict rules. They don't pull things out of their asses. I am not even sure they can communicate during the performance, can they? They just enter numbers according to what they see and whatever comes up stands as the final result. I don't know what the exact process it. Anybody knows?
Accusation of corruption is a very serious thing and to dare to do it requires very serious proofs. If there is a proof of corruption then it should be investigated. But if there is no proof, but just emotional fan rants, then everybody should shut up and take a pill.

Are you aware that judges meet behind closed doors all together before and after a competition? Yes, that's actually part of the system. The referee, tech panel and judging panel all have a round table talk before and after the event to talk about the event and the judging. They know each other, they talk to each other, they talk about results, about expectations, etc. They are not secluded or isolated. They know who's skating, what the programs are, the planned content, etc.

 

[Manitou]

How are you supposed to have "proof" before an investigation? The whole point of an investigation is in order to obtain evidence. You don't need it in order to investigate, just reason to be suspicious. Which there certainly is.

The thing is that you don't even have a basis of your suspicions. All you know is that Yuna should have won because she was graceful. And that's all you have. These are ALL your arguments. Oh, I forgot, the Olympics was in "evil" Russia. And that's all you have. NOTHING.

 

[Krislite]

The thing is that you don't even have a basis of your suspicions. All you know is that Yuna should have won because she was graceful. And that's all you have. These are ALL your arguments. Oh, I forgot, the Olympics was in "evil" Russia. And that's all you have. NOTHING.

Adelina's scores are the basis of the suspicion. There's no way in hell she would have gotten anything close to that if she were not Russian.

 

[Manitou]

Are you aware that judges meet behind closed doors all together before and after a competition? Yes, that's actually part of the system. The referee, tech panel and judging panel all have a round table talk before and after the event to talk about the event and the judging. They know each other, they talk to each other, they talk about results, about expectations, etc. They are not secluded or isolated. They know who's skating, what the programs are, the planned content, etc.

Before and after EACH performance? Do they have time for that? lol

 

[Manitou]

Adelina's scores are the basis of the suspicion. There's no way in hell she would have gotten anything close to that if she were not Russian.

Show your spreadsheet with numbers to prove it.

 

[Ophelia]

The thing is that you don't even have a basis of your suspicions. All you know is that Yuna should have won because she was graceful. And that's all you have. These are ALL your arguments. Oh, I forgot, the Olympics was in "evil" Russia. And that's all you have. NOTHING.

Have you read any of the discussions going on on here, or are you just dropping in to give your misinformed opinions, which have already been debunked repeatedly?