The Judging Controversy Thread

[Ven]

If they had all gone clean, Julia, Adelina, and Gracie would have been the medalists.

A clean Yuna, Caro, Mao, and the others would have got nothing.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

There must be, but I don't know.. It's like we should start chronologically compile every judge in every competition. Sigh..

If you search the name of the competition with results: 2013 Grand Prix Figure Skating Final Results and click on the link where ISU is under the title you'll get to the event page where you can click on all the protocols and officials.

For the European Championships the link is http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/
To see the list of officials click on panel of judges for ladies short, men's free, etc

 

[pangtongfan]

If they had all gone clean, Julia, Adelina, and Gracie would have been the medalists.

Only since Russia didnt get the 3rd spot due to Sotnikova placing where she really belongs in world skating (9th) at worlds outside of Russia last year. If they had a 3rd spot Leonova would have been the bronze medalist with all clean and concluded a Russian sweep.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

All of the judges may not have been in on it directly, but I'm SURE the Russian fed and their allies were trying to persuade and politick at the very least. I think many (including you) are being rather naive about the state of judging in Figure Skating.

Again, a minimum of six judges scored Adelina ahead of Yuna. They had an opportunity to mark Adelina lower on PCS but didn't. I don't believe six (but more likely seven) were influenced by politics. If that is naive, I suppose I am but I have looked at the panel and cannot identify a full 6, much less 7, who would have been influenced by politics. Can you?

 

[usethis2]

This was a pre-ordained result, at least on of the Russian teens was getting a medal, it just happened to be Adelina because Julia fell.

Likewise in this forum, you will see those who now speak of Adelina as if an angel on the ice, were promoting Yulia prior to this event. That's what I find so appalling. These girls are completely exchangeable and expendable to them. I thought figure skating was an individual sport. They needed someone to stay on her feet and Adelina delivered on that front. Yulia's scores throughout the Olympics were incomprehensible as well. People thought she was overscored in team games! Hah!

 

[usethis2]

If you search the name of the competition with results: 2013 Grand Prix Figure Skating Final Results and click on the link where ISU is under the title you'll get to the event page where you can click on all the protocols and officials.

For the European Championships the link is http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/
To see the list of officials click on panel of judges for ladies short, men's free, etc

Thank you!

Edit: It seems like the event page is not complete. I clicked a few and got bad request results. But majority seem to be there. Thank you again.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Even assuming the tech panel was "in on it", the nine judges gave Adelina the GOE and PCS to place her well ahead of Yuna. The reason I find the accusations implausible is because at least six of the judges and at least two of the tech panel had to be "up to no good" here. I feel like the fans don't like the result and are trying desperately to come up with a narrative to fit the conspiracy theory, but statistically a large majority (at least 2/3) of the decision makers would have to be part of this scheme for the result to happen.

I though it needed to be more than a couple of people too, but the levels called by the tech panel, all levels 4s, instead of the level 4,3, 1, and 3, in both the SP and LP combined with even 2 of the judges consistently marking Adelina high and Yuna lower would result in scores higher by at least 5 points for Adelina and 5 points lower for Yuna. Each individual thing you look at at such as Adelina getting higher GOE for a jump than Yuna, is not enough but when you look at everything together it becomes a much more sinister picture.

And even if you don't agree with the rest there's still the fact that her cleanest skates at Euro's gave her 202 points with a single jump combination mistake, while one corrected mistake combined with another mistake resulted in a score 22 points better. How does that make any sense?

 

[kslr0816]

while daisy is doing a very good job calling into question the idea of a planned, all judges in on it type of conspiracy, the fact of the matter is the scores still showed obvious lean and bias. it doesn't matter who's in on it, who's not. they're biased. unfair. there's evidence that calls into question the judgment of some of these scores. I haven't heard anyone who's felt Adelina should have received PCS scores near Yuna's, or GOE above Yuna's, except for the select few on this forum.

Stop focusing on the "conspiracy" theory part of it. I'll say it again - you can't use the weaknesses in the conspiracy portion of it to question the relative performances of the two - the tech, PCS and GOE. daisy's doing a very good job of that, but it's not the right argument. forget about the conspiracy. there was home cooking. there was biased judging, and biased scores. these scores changed the order of how the skaters would have placed. it's a legitimate argument. don't use the conspiracy being illegitimate to say that everything was as it should be.

 

[Ven]

while daisy is doing a very good job calling into question the idea of a planned, all judges in on it type of conspiracy, the fact of the matter is the scores still showed obvious lean and bias. it doesn't matter who's in on it, who's not. they're biased. unfair. there's evidence that calls into question the judgment of some of these scores. I haven't heard anyone who's felt Adelina should have received PCS scores near Yuna's, or GOE above Yuna's, except for the select few on this forum.

Stop focusing on the "conspiracy" theory part of it. I'll say it again - you can't use the weaknesses in the conspiracy portion of it to question the relative performances of the two - the tech, PCS and GOE. daisy's doing a very good job of that, but it's not the right argument. forget about the conspiracy. there was home cooking. there was biased judging, and biased scores. these scores changed the order of how the skaters would have placed. it's a legitimate argument. don't use the conspiracy being illegitimate to say that everything was as it should be.

No, it was a rigged result. Fixed. That's exactly what happened, and everyone knows it.

But I'm sure some would love to slippery slope the debate to subjective x vs. y, can't do anything about it, move onto the next competition.

 

[Lyanpark]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

I just took a look at Ladies's SP Protocol. As we know, judge numbers are random.

2 judges marked in favor of Adelina Sotnikova's PCS while held down Yuna's PCS.



Adelina Sotnikova(35.55)

Skating Skills/Transitions/ Performance/Choreography/Interpretation PCS

J1 9.50 /9.25 /9.75 / 9.50 /9.75 38.2
J2 9.25 /9.00 /9.75 / 9.25 /9.50 37.2


Yuna (Actual 35.89)

Skating Skills/Transitions/ Performance/Choreography/Interpretation PCS

J1 8.25 /8.00 /8.00 / 7.75 /8.50 32.4
J2 8.50 /7.75 /8.50 / 8.00 /8.25 32.8

Then there was a Judge change after SP. 2 judges that we thought they leaned to Adelina Sotnikova. Alla SHEKHOVTSEVA(Russia), Yury BALKOV(Ukraine).

If these 4 judges leaned to Adelina Sotnikova, there would be 4 judges in high favor of Adelina Sotnikova's score in LP.

Just guessing from SP, LP's protocol.

 

[jehan215]

All 9's for Sotnikova while 7.75 for Yuna in Transitions and Choreography? Do the judges think we're dumb? Blind?

 

[usethis2]

Something is rotten in the state of Sochi: analyzing Ladies’ short program

The Winter Olympic Games in Sochi reached an end last night – but what stays in the minds of many is the huge controversy in the ladies’ figure skating event, showing resemblance to the pairs’ scandal in Salt Lake City-2002, which led, eventually, to a radical change in the way figure skating was judged.

With this much coverage, the officials at the ISU should be ashamed. There are majority of folks, casual or knowledgeable, who are negative against the result and minority who defend it. And the minority's motives for the defense are suspect, and the defense itself is not up to the standard (one more triple! one more triple!).

 

[usethis2]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Ladies_SP_Scores.pdf

I just took a look at Ladies's SP Protocol. As we know, judge numbers are random.

2 judges marked in favor of Adelina Sotnikova's PCS while held down Yuna's PCS.



Adelina Sotnikova(35.55)

Skating Skills Transitions Performance Choreography Interpretation PCS

J1 9.50 /9.25 /9.75 / 9.50 /9.75 38.2
J2 9.25 /9.00 /9.75 / 9.25 /9.50 37.2


Yuna (Actual 35.89)

Skating Skills Transitions Performance Choreography Interpretation PCS

J1 8.25 /8.00 /8.00 / 7.75 /8.50 32.4
J2 8.50 /7.75 /8.50 / 8.00 /8.25 32.8

7.75..

Edit: Two of them?!

 

[jehan215]

7.75..

Edit: Two of them?!

Hence why anonymous judging should go away. Even in rugby, they show ALL of the judging process, including names and photos of the referees. Heck they even broadcast what the judges are saying before they award a try. I seriously don't understand why ISU had to implement the "anonymous" part.

 

[Lyanpark]

Yes. You might be suprised when you look at LP's protocol. There were 4 judges who did the same thing in the LP score.

Judges / Yuna/ Adelina Sotnikova
1 /134.09 / 141.83

2 /140.39 / 143.13

3 /143.09 / 145.33

4 /144.09 / 145.63

5 /144.69 / 151.13

6 /144.79 / 151.53

7 /145.79 / 153.93

8 /149.49 / 154.03

9 /151.79 / 155.73

More detailed LP's protocol.

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

 

[usethis2]

And I thought Send in the Clowns was better than Danse Macabre..

 

[Ven]

If you throw out the 2+2+2 in both programs because Adelina stumbled, Sotnikova outscored Kim 1.68 in jump GOE for the free skate.

How laughable is that?

Flip it around and that's over 3 points for Yuna.

 

[jehan215]

For those who still believe Sotnikova won it fair and square, read:

http://www.feverskating.com/fevers/64956111

Yes, it's written by Yuna's fans but if you read carefully and follow their analysis... it does make you wonder... Hmmm....

 

[Lyanpark]

http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Look 4 judges's score. How they scored Yuna and Adelina Sotnikova's PCS.

GOE also same. Judges numbers are not the same for each skater.


Yuna(PCS 74.50)

Skating Skills/Transitions/ Performance/Choreography/Interpretation PCS

J1 9.00 /8.75 /9.25 / 9.50 /9.25 73.20
J2 8.50 /7.75 /8.75 / 8.25 /8.75 67.20
J4 9.00 /8.75 /9.25 / 9.00 /9.25 72.40
J8 9.00 /8.75 /9.50 / 9.25 /9.50 73.60

Adelina Sotnikova(PCS 74.41)

Skating Skills/Transitions/ Performance/Choreography/Interpretation PCS

J1 9.50 /9.25 /9.75 / 9.75 /9.75 76.80
J2 9.50 /9.25 /9.50 / 9.75 /9.75 76.40
J5 9.25 /9.50 /9.75 / 9.50 /9.75 76.40
J7 9.50 /9.50 /9.75 /9.75 /9.75 77.20

 

[Ven]

Throwing out the 2+2+2 in the free skate because of Adelina's stumble, here were GOE differences on jumps...

Short Program: Sotnikova +0.13

Long Program: Sotnikova +1.68

Does anyone here think Sotnikova should be earning higher GOE on jumps over Kim? lol