The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 75 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

What does Yuna's jump advantage in the short have to do with anything? She won the short.

Because he boiled the entire competition down to Adelina doing one more triple in the free skate. That was the message he gave the audience.

That's disingenuous, because Yuna did a harder jump combo in the short, something that the average viewer would not know. They take away from his remarks that Sotnikova did harder jumps so she deserved to win.

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And re: the short program, more points to Kurt Browning for going back and several days later commenting that the scores in the short program were very suspect too, the difference between Kim and Sotnikova should have been much greater.
 
Because he boiled the entire competition down to Adelina doing one more triple in the free skate. That was the message he gave the audience.

That's disingenuous, because Yuna did a harder jump combo in the short, something that the average viewer would not know. They take away from his remarks that Sotnikova did harder jumps so she deserved to win.

Saying someone did one more triple is not the same thing as saying someone did harder triples. Again, he has about 30 seconds to explain the scores to Americans with a low attention span so he has to summarize things succinctly.
 
What does the SP jump advantage mean to anything. You have a combo but it's not just a combo competition because spins count and step sequences count too. You have to prove that Adelina didn't deserve level 4's for those elements as that's what made up for the jump combo disadvantage. Like when Plushenko did 4/3 in Vancouver short but which didn't mean anything because his step levels and PCS didn't match the highest possible.
 
And re: the short program, more points to Kurt Browning for going back and several days later commenting that the scores in the short program were very suspect too, the difference between Kim and Sotnikova should have been much greater.

Absolutely. And sadly Yuna kind of knew what was going on. She did not say directly but reading her interview, it seems clear to me she was aware of it. Knowing that, plus seeing Mao cry, and finally having to wait longer than usual to skate.. all could have affected Yuna's skating. But she rose yet again and gave us the moment. I just can't believe she is human..

But the corrupt judges and shameless Russian federation are more than believable. I hope they will receive the justice one day.
 
What does the SP jump advantage mean to anything. You have a combo but it's not just a combo competition because spins count and step sequences count too.

You're right, it's not just a SP jump combo competition. Boiling the competition down to that would be equally misleading and unethical. But that's not what happened, is it?
 
Define "unfair". Does that mean:
a) you disagree with it?
b) 50.1% disagree with it?
c) 65% disagree with it?

To me, none of these are inherently unfair in the absence of cheating. I don't understand how you can call something "unfair" when no foul play is involved. I suppose you can call the audience supporting home skaters "unfair" but that is independent of calling the results "unfair" when they are decided by judges.

unfair score in this instance as in a score higher or lower than what an unbiased party would have given. you yourself have already agreed with me on this point. I asked you to take a position. were the scores fair and appropriate or was there a lean for certain skaters. you chose the latter.
 
It's not a 6.0 system. Most of your points were about 6.0. This is code of points. The commentary from Hamilton seems to be:

This time the judges were looking for x.
Last time they were looking for y.

Under any system, whatever the judges are "looking for" (favoring), sometimes the x skater who has a bigger advantage in x than the y skater has in y.

Jumps vs. artistry is a major oversimplification, but for shorthand as an example, sometimes the better jumper had a big jump advantage and the better artist has a smaller artistic advantage. Other times the better artist has the bigger advantage and the jumper's margin on the jumps is narrower.

Some judges may give more weight to X and others to Y. Changes in the rules or the scoring system or the referee's instructions may cause the same judge to weight X more highly at one competition and Y at the next. And, yes, which country the X skater and the Y skater happen to represent each time might improperly influence how heavily a judge weights X vs. Y.

Kurt's comments were succinct and measured, but they were also honest and critical. He gave Adelina full compliment for her technical quality, but put everything in the proper context. Scott's analysis on the other hand did not adhere to the spirit of the scoring system. To even mention Adelina's jump advantage in the free without mentioning Yuna's jump advantage in the short is downright unethical. No person can say EVERYTHING in the heat of the moment, but he had several opportunities in the following days to clarify that point, and he never did.

So maybe Kurt is a better commentator than Scott? So what? Neither of them controls the results.

Which skater they each prefer, or how much they question or agree with the results on air, has no bearing on the results either. Learn what you can from what they have to say -- which is not much because their on-air comments are limited in time and directed toward the casual viewers -- and if you want to keep track you can add their expressed opinions about who should have won to a tally of North American TV commentators and skating experts as to whether they agree with the result or not.

None of that tells you whether the judges on the panel that day judged fairly or not. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but whether Kurt or Scott agrees with them has no bearing on that question.
 
Absolutely. And sadly Yuna kind of knew what was going on. She did not say directly but reading her interview, it seems clear to me she was aware of it. Knowing that, plus seeing Mao cry, and finally having to wait longer than usual to skate.. all could have affected Yuna's skating. But she rose yet again and gave us the moment. I just can't believe she is human..

But the corrupt judges and shameless Russian federation are more than believable. I hope they will receive the justice one day.

I totally agree with that
 
unfair score in this instance as in a score higher or lower than what an unbiased party would have given. you yourself have already agreed with me on this point. I asked you to take a position. were the scores fair and appropriate or was there a lean for certain skaters. you chose the latter.

Yes I absolutely think there is home cooking. It is at every competition. I don't think if this were held in Korea she would have won. However, if you took Adelina's PCS mark from only her lowest scoring judge, she will would have won the LP so this is something that is beyond one or two crooked judges. If the only argument were than Yuna was penalized for not benefitting from home cooking I would accept that. However, the petition, the attacking of people who disagree, etc is far beyond what is required to address the problem of home cooking.
 
If I were Korean and had any role to play in 2018 Olympic, I would make sure the Russians would receive the same treatment that Yuna received in Sochi.

Same treatment.
 
Yuna's fansite Feverskating, known the world-over as an unbiased source of balanced commentary :biggrin:

The thing is, their reasoning is sound. They may be biased, but they are not the only ones (and some of us have no horse in the game) who noticed the judging irregularities. The Russian girls were judges WAY easier then everyone else that night. The numbers bear it out. The tech caller (who was Russian) didn't call Adelina on anything. He failed either intentionally or accidentally (and my suspicions make me think its the former), and should never be allowed to be a tech caller again, IMO.
 
Yes I absolutely think there is home cooking. It is at every competition. I don't think if this were held in Korea she would have won. However, if you took Adelina's PCS mark from only her lowest scoring judge, she will would have won the LP so this is something that is beyond one or two crooked judges. If the only argument were than Yuna was penalized for not benefitting from home cooking I would accept that. However, the petition, the attacking of people who disagree, etc is far beyond what is required to address the problem of home cooking.


If you earn something such as blame, you get it because you deserve it. In my opinion.
 
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