The Judging Controversy Thread

[Sam-Skwantch]

No judge has ever hugged a skater before? Ever ever ever?

Also, you are attacking the wrong person - namely ksir0816.

But then, you did say in another thread - did you not? - that you had never heard of Adelina before Sochi.... ?

:think:

 

[kwanatic]

I think what's most evident is the scores were a bit over inflated for everyone.

Scores are always inflated at the Olympics. I haven't checked the results but I guarantee you nearly half of the skaters in the top 10 ended up with personal best scores. The judges are always overly generous at the Olympics and the hometown favorites are always boosted, especially if they skate well.

 

[yuki90]

Is it true that Sotnikova had never won the title in senior international competiton except OGM??

It's new history in figure skating that a skater who had not just one title suddenly won OGM at her own country.

 

[kwanatic]

No judge has ever hugged a skater before? Ever ever ever?

Yeah I don't find that whole "the judge hugged her" argument to hold much water. IDK if anybody realized it but Adelina was bear-hugging anyone who would stand still long enough that night...

 

[kslr0816]

You must be blind to the evidence that's out there. i dont know What u are watching. How is it possible that Adelina Scored 5.49 pts higher than Yuna with the mistakes in her FS performance. Can u explain to the Korean people - why is Adelina hugging Russian judge after her performance. NO Russian has explained the meaning of this. To me Adelina and the Russian judge are congratulating each other for stealing the gold medal from Yuna. No judge in any professional or olympic sport does this except in Sochi Russia.

I'm not blind to it I'm simply saying it's inconclusive.

 

[kwanatic]

It's new history in figure skating that a skater who had not just one title suddenly won OGM at her own country.

As they say, there's a first time for everything.

 

[Mathman]

No judge has ever hugged a skater before? Ever ever ever?

Still…it sends the wrong message. What if it were the World Cup in soccer. One team wins on a controversial referee's call, and the referee in question immediately rushes over and starts high-fiving the victors.

 

[LRK]

I've been revisiting the protocols and a few things stand out to me.

1) While I believe Caro could be called the winner here, I've seen a lot of posters here agree but her scores shot up almost 20pts since Euros. I'm pretty sure it was the same program minus one fall. So my point is yes even if Caro had won it would seem everyone is benefitting from a more loosely called event.
Side bar- SO GLAD CARO GOT A MEDAL!

2) Everyone is harping on Yulia too for being over scored here but she got almost an identical score to Mao at GPF who fell on her first 3a and then over rotated her next with a two foot and step out with Shin Amano as the tech controller of all people. He is notoriously brutal if I'm not mistaken.

I think what's most evident is the scores were a bit over inflated for everyone. Adelina took full advantage of it while the vets left a few pts on the table. Graceful and stunning as they were. I also noticed Yuna had 4 10's in the PCS scores. Adelina had 0!!!

I've actually had a feeling that the scores have been going up for... beginning last year maybe, at least with the men. Do you remember when the early 90s was a HUGE score for a man's SP? (And yes, I know about the second half bonus rule change - but that can't account for ALL the increase, can it?) Also, it seems to me that the judges have been handing out WRs like candy recently.... over several disciplines at least. (Except the ladies, actually.... ?) But that is just an impression, and maybe someone with a more... orderly mind could comment on that?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Is it true that Sotnikova had never won the title in senior international competiton except OGM??

It's new history in figure skating that a skater who had not just one title suddenly won OGM at her own country.

Purely circumstantial evidence...can you expand?

 

[kslr0816]

I've been revisiting the protocols and a few things stand out to me.

1) While I believe Caro could be called the winner here, I've seen a lot of posters here agree. The thing is her scores shot up almost 20pts since Euros in the FS too!! I'm pretty sure it was the same program minus one fall. So my point is yes even if Caro had won it would seem everyone is benefitting from a more loosely called event.
Side bar- SO GLAD CARO GOT A MEDAL!

2) Everyone is harping on Yulia too for being over scored here but she got almost an identical score to Mao at GPF who fell on her first 3a and then over rotated her next with a two foot and step out with Shin Amano as the tech controller of all people. He is notoriously brutal if I'm not mistaken. Granted that event was a splat feat but there was a lot of (e) and < all over the everyone's scores!!

I think what's most evident is the scores were a bit over inflated for everyone. Adelina took full advantage of it while the vets left a few pts on the table. Graceful and stunning as they were. I also noticed Yuna had 4 10's in the PCS scores. Adelina had 0!!!

can you explain further the last bit about the pcs scores? wasn't her PCs basically negligible to yunas?

 

[kslr0816]

Still…it sends the wrong message. What if it were the World Cup in soccer. One team wins on a controversial referee's call, and the referee in question immediately rushes over and starts high-fiving the victors.

it's like a ref winking at a basketball player after giving a game winning foul call lol

 

[kwanatic]

I've actually had a feeling that the scores have been going up for... beginning last year maybe, at least with the men. Do you remember when the early 90s was a HUGE score for a man's SP? (And yes, I know about the second half bonus rule change - but that can't account for ALL the increase, can it?) Also, it seems to me that the judges have been handing out WRs like candy recently.... over several disciplines at least. (Except the ladies, actually.... ?) But that is just an impression, and maybe someone with a more... orderly mind could comment on that?

No, you're right. The PCS have been skyrocketing all year long as have the scores. Remember a few seasons ago where breaking the 200 mark was an incredible feat? Five people scored over 200 points in this competition alone...the scores have been trending upwards for a long time.

 

[ngfriend]

:think:

Do u ever see a player hug a referee in Soccer, NBA,NFL, Hockey after winning a championship. I have NEVER seen this. If u do... we call this conspiracy.

 

[yuki90]

I've been revisiting the protocols and a few things stand out to me.

1) While I believe Caro could be called the winner here, I've seen a lot of posters here agree. The thing is her scores shot up almost 20pts since Euros in the FS too!! I'm pretty sure it was the same program minus one fall. So my point is yes even if Caro had won it would seem everyone is benefitting from a more loosely called event.
Side bar- SO GLAD CARO GOT A MEDAL!

2) Everyone is harping on Yulia too for being over scored here but she got almost an identical score to Mao at GPF who fell on her first 3a and then over rotated her next with a two foot and step out with Shin Amano as the tech controller of all people. He is notoriously brutal if I'm not mistaken. Granted that event was a splat feat but there was a lot of (e) and < all over the everyone's scores!!

I think what's most evident is the scores were a bit over inflated for everyone. Adelina took full advantage of it while the vets left a few pts on the table. Graceful and stunning as they were. I also noticed Yuna had 4 10's in the PCS scores. Adelina had 0!!!

Are you kidding me??? hahahaha.

Adelina's PCS is almost same as YuNa. go watch the video in Youtube.

Adelina's PCS increases 20 points by 2 month. A BIT OVERSOCRED FOR EVERYONE??

REALLY?? IS THAT YOUR WAY TO INGORE THE TRUTH????

 

[gkelly]

Is it true that Sotnikova had never won the title in senior international competiton except OGM??

It's new history in figure skating that a skater who had not just one title suddenly won OGM at her own country.

How quickly they forget Sarah Hughes.

 

[louisa05]

Yeah I don't find that whole "the judge hugged her" argument to hold much water. IDK if anybody realized it but Adelina was bear-hugging anyone who would stand still long enough that night...

Problem was the judge's personal connection to the Russian skaters via her husband's position. That is called "conflict of interest" and it is a real problem. I think the hug was just a clear demonstration that the conflict of interest existed. Also, if you look at the video, Adelina pushes past at least two other people at that moment to get to the judge for that hug.

Personally, I believe that it really is an impropriety on the part of the judge--not Adelina. Judges need to quietly leave the building, not go about congratulating skaters. But they should not have personal relationships with the skaters in the first place. And that is a problem that the ISU needs to address. This particular judge should not be judging senior elite events because of her husband's position.

 

[kwanatic]

Do u ever see a player hug a referee in Soccer, NBA,NFL, Hockey after winning a championship. I have NEVER seen this. If u do... we call this conspiracy.

This is not soccer, basketball, or football...it's figure skating. Clearly, the same rules for "real" sports don't apply to this sport and they never have.

 

[kslr0816]

Do u ever see a player hug a referee in Soccer, NBA,NFL, Hockey after winning a championship. I have NEVER seen this. If u do... we call this conspiracy.

no, we call it controversy

 

[kslr0816]

i did put in a request to rename this thread to the judging controversy thread, as evidence for an actual conspiracy are yet to be found. while i do believe a lot of the russian judges and tech panel had it in their minds to give high scores/ignore flutz, ur, general skating skill, etc., i've yet to see any evidence of an actual conspiracy plot. that might be a fine line, but a line regardless. given the scoring of the judges and what most skaters seem to consider to be very generous/inflated scores, it just seems more along the lines of overall biased judging rather than some sort of plot.

thread renamed!

 

[LRK]

Still…it sends the wrong message. What if it were the World Cup in soccer. One team wins on a controversial referee's call, and the referee in question immediately rushes over and starts high-fiving the victors.

I'm not discussing whether it was a good thing or not - I'm merely doubting that this is an unprecedented occurrence in the history of the sport.

As for "soccer" - for one thing, there are only two countries participating in the match, and the ref won't be from either. There are just a feeeew more countries in a figure skating competition, and so it would be a chore to find only judges that have NO participants taking part. Also, it is customary to shake hands with the ref, is it not? And I have never checked to see if anyone hugged the ref after the match ended. The next football match I watch, I'll keep an eye out for that.

(I've never actually understood comparing one sport to another. "Well, it is like if in..... er.... cricket such-and-such were to occur". Every sport is so different, and has so different rules, that I've never quite seen the point myself.)