2014 Olympics Ladies Free Skate

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Russian fans are ashamed and disappointed, too, they really are, especially those who don’t just watch figure skating once in four years. They point out in their forums that Adelina got inflated marks, as well as Plushenko, Ilyinykh / Katsalapov, with Asada, Kim, Kostner underscored. I would personally add Yulia Lipnitskaya (overscored, she should have been placed 9-10), Polina Edmunds (underscored, must be much higher, as Yulia with her artistry, skating skills and the quality of jumps especially the defective double axel is nowhere near Polina). Conclusion: Sotnikova’s victory would have been much more appreciated if there hadn’t been such a great gap in scores between her and Kim. So there was a fix anyway.

There was another fix in the team event with Plushenko’s withdrawal from the individuals. The original plan was to skate in the team event, then withdraw and let Kovtun (the 2014 Nationals champion) compete in the individuals. That was against the rules but nobody cared, bc the Olympic gold was at stake. What happened is that Plushenko spoke openly about this plan after his disastrous failure at the Nationals so no surprises the plan became known to the Olympic officials who made it clear that should this happen, the Russian athletes would be disqualified. That’s why Plushenko staged a show of getting injured during the warm-up. At the same time, he was planning to skate in numerous shows shortly after the games, in March and April. There was a public outrage and a possibility of being stripped off the team gold, so he cancelled the shows. All this looked very ugly and it still stinks.

The major problem is that cheating is the normal way of life in Russia – kids cheat during school tests, university students pay their teachers to get better scores (of course not everywhere), if you violate the traffic rules you can pay the officer and get away with it – just a few examples. I know what I’m talking about – lived in Russia for 25 years before leaving it for good. So sorry for what happened in the Olympic figure skating.

To have Yulia place 9th you would have to put her PCS below 27 in the SP and below 59 in the LP. That's just not right. To have her place 10th you would have to put her PCS below 23 in the SP and below 54 in the LP, which is utterly absurd. Plus her technical content, even when watered down by losing 7+ points TES in the SP and at least 7 points in the LP, is still competitive within the top 8. Also having her even place below Ashley is ridiculous. Below Mao is definitely arguable because her PCS in the LP should have been 68 at the absolute max.

 

[coolboogie22]

Is it me or I think that Mao Asada triple flip/triple loop seems clean to me for the first time ? I wonder why she gets underotated for the triple loop??
In my book Mao Asada should have win the FS, this was the Champion! skate of the day!

 

[marechal09]

Loking better at these three all stunning programs, I think that Sotnikova was technically above Qeen Yu Na, she was faster and her spins impeccable. Anyway I still hope that the Queen will compete in Korea and perhaps win...

 

[Mista Ekko]

Is it me or I think that Mao Asada triple flip/triple loop seems clean to me for the first time ? I wonder why she gets underotated for the triple loop??
In my book Mao Asada should have win the FS, this was the Champion! skate of the day!

I ran it a few times and in slow-mo, I honestly don't get that deduction.

 

[capcomeback]

To be fair to Yulia, the majority of those +3s were on her final 2 spins, when spinning is widely regarded as the aspect of skating she is the best at (other than flexibility). Two spins which she has always gotten +3s on as long as she executes them to her high standard, from Finlandia Trophy, through two GPs, through the GP Final, through Europeans, through the team event, and to the individual event. None of those are remotely suspicious. Also aiding her, is her flexibility which impresses in the ChSq. So those four elements account for 21 of those 26 so-called suspicious +3s. Then you have a single +3 on her Level3 StSq which I don't believe can be called unfair when even the strictest 2 judges gave her +2s, and she has received +2 through the season. Then we come to the jumps. For the two less strict judges the one who gave her the single +3 on the triple flip gave her +2 on the 3 jumping passes that were well-executed. So really 1 judge only gave two +3 on her two jump combinations and then still gave lower GOE on the 3Flip and 2Axel which are weaker, and the other lenient judge gave her a +3 on her triple combination and the triple flip and lower GOE on the other two jump elements.

So to sum up, 21 of the 26 suspicious +3s are on spins and the ChSq which are areas she excels in. So put those aside. One is on the the Level 3 StSq which would have been dropped when the scores were averaged and makes no difference, even if it was a +2 like all the rest of the judges gave her the result is absolutely identical and +2s are in-line with what she has received in the last year when she skates it well. Of the 4 +3s she received for the jumps, 3 were dropped when averaging and would make no difference even if they were +2s. Only a single +3 was counted for her jump elements because two were given for the triple-triple combination. Changing that number even to a 1 would still result in identical GOE. People seem to be upset that she gets good GOE on the 3-3, when she always receives 1s and mostly 2s but that is not shown on the protocols because the tech panel has to make the edge call and when it's ruled against her the judges are required to add -1 to the +GOE. Clear evidence of this is in the TES box on the screen. At SC she would have cleared 71 TES, at GPF, her TES score was 2 points higher for the FS and at Europeans she would have been at 74.

In the SP, she received lower GOE because her jumps were weaker overall, and her final two spins wavered slightly because of her first fall in competition rattling her. Has anyone noticed the completely out of place -3 on her layback spin?

There's no doubt Julia deserves a number of those 3's on many of her spins (in particular that Biellmann that seems physically impossible). Still, some of her positions are not perfect (which is where a 2 would be more in order). She deserves zeroes or ones on most of her jumps (No height or carry). The thought that any 3's received on her jumps is ludicrous (2s are generous). Not a fan of her high PCS, though I give her a ton of credit for her program choices (music and costume) for the FS. It made up for some of her limited choreography and somewhat lacking interpretation (still way better than Adelina). When she gets older (if her body can take the punishment), she has a real chance to be an exceptional artist.

Adelina needs to learn to feel and interpret the music and learn how to understand her choreography. She only had one moment where the piece's tempo picked up that she seemed to understand what she was skating to. Other than that, they might have just turned the music off and it would not have affected her program an iota. This is why her high marks in these categories is mystifying (or inept or worse, cheating). She deserved no higher than in the sevens - not the eights and nines she received. The fact that some judges scored her over Carolina and Yuna is ridiculous.

 

[capcomeback]

Loking better at these three all stunning programs, I think that Sotnikova was technically above Qeen Yu Na, she was faster and her spins impeccable. Anyway I still hope that the Queen will compete in Korea and perhaps win...

There are several Youtube videos of Adelina and Yuna's skates from fans sitting high in the arena so that you can see the whole rink (links were posted recently in this thread). If you look, you'll see that Adelina did not skate faster than Yuna. In fact there were places where it was completely the opposite.

 

[ahy]

Watching the fan cams, Carolina and Yuna definitely out skated adelina Yuna and carolina's speed was much faster than adelina, and the flow was amazing, i'd put 1)Yuna 2)Carolina 3)Mao (70%) Adelina (30%)

 

[verysmuchso]

Robin Szolkowy said too he heard people laugh after he fell in the LP. What takes the cake for me though: a russian member of another fan group I'm in, who was there, said she heard people yell "fall!" at Yuna before/during the LP (edit: and at Mao during her SP too). This is disgusting, and it's impressive that Yuna managed to skate as great as she did given the situation.
...

Yuna reminded me of Maximus Decidius Meridus (Russell Crowe in Gladiator)

 

[Alberta]

To have Yulia place 9th you would have to put her PCS below 27 in the SP and below 59 in the LP. That's just not right. To have her place 10th you would have to put her PCS below 23 in the SP and below 54 in the LP, which is utterly absurd. Plus her technical content, even when watered down by losing 7+ points TES in the SP and at least 7 points in the LP, is still competitive within the top 8. Also having her even place below Ashley is ridiculous. Below Mao is definitely arguable because her PCS in the LP should have been 68 at the absolute max.

You’re probably right, I’m not that technical. However, had Yulia skated flawless programs (without the disastrous falls in both), the chances are she might have been placed above Kim and Kostner. At least she would have been in the medal conversation. That would be totally absurd as she (Yulia) is far from perfect in her jumps, and her teenage choreography is just learned - I noticed a couple of times she was a little ahead of the music. Don’t think figure skating is only about jumping on the ice.
In fact, I wasn’t making any calculations based on the skaters’ scores, just tried to compare Yulia’s and Polina’s performances, and I firmly believe that Polina should have been placed higher. Her jumps are of a higher quality (height, carry, landing) than Yulia’s in my opinion, and the artistry is a way better. My explanation for that - Yulia was already made Olympic champion, and her title carried a bigger weight in the judges' eyes (more than often the case with skating judging but so utterly unfair!)

 

[Skater Boy]

Polina skated well but she is rather bland. Like a second rate American Princess - or maybe princess in training. She doesn't skate (yet) with the conviction or assertiveness as the top ladies. She doesn't have a special quality like Yulia (who maybe picked excellent choices of music that worked with her personality).

 

[capcomeback]

All good points. Alberta. Polina is a budding artist too. She is nowhere near Yuna, Carolina or even Ashley yet, but she'll get there. Gracie is improving too. Certainly Yuna, Carolina, the Japanese (Mao and Akiko) and American (Gracie, Ashley and Polina) skaters and Julia are ahead of Adelina on artistry. In other words, IMHO, Adelina should have finished behind the eight skaters directly behind her in the standings on several aspects of PCS. I'm tired of people stating that it is much harder to learn the jumps, so they should get PCS handed to them. If it's so easy to be an artist, be one and earn the marks! If not, suffer the bad PCS from your lack of effort or interest.

 

[capcomeback]

Polina skated well but she is rather bland. Like a second rate American Princess - or maybe princess in training. She doesn't skate (yet) with the conviction or assertiveness as the top ladies. She doesn't have a special quality like Yulia (who maybe picked excellent choices of music that worked with her personality).

SB- Polina skated with some thought of what she was doing and made an effort to follow her choreography. Polina is a better jumper in terms of quality (height and carry in particular). Her artistry is not much different. Julia is an outstanding spinner, so no comparison there.

I'm tired of this bashing American skaters calling them "princesses", when the Russians women have a history of inferior skating skills. What did Adelina do, except jump (flutz), spin and wave to the judges? She skated with little speed compared to skaters just behind her in the standings. Adelina skated pissed off. I give her credit for skating a good program in some place and a solid in others, but to say that her performance was close to Yuna's Olympic record of 2010, is a joke. You don't call a good over all program (and I'm being kind here) the best ever. This is why figure skating will never be taken seriously. In comparison it would be like calling Johnny Mize almost as good as Babe Ruth. Both Hall of Fame baseball players, but that is the only comparison between the two (I'm not even sure comparing Johnny Mize to Adelina is fair to him. He was pretty darn good).

 

[usethis2]

You’re probably right, I’m not that technical. However, had Yulia skated flawless programs (without the disastrous falls in both), the chances are she might have been placed above Kim and Kostner. At least she would have been in the medal conversation. That would be totally absurd as she (Yulia) is far from perfect in her jumps, and her teenage choreography is just learned - I noticed a couple of times she was a little ahead of the music. Don’t think figure skating is only about jumping on the ice.
In fact, I wasn’t making any calculations based on the skaters’ scores, just tried to compare Yulia’s and Polina’s performances, and I firmly believe that Polina should have been placed higher. Her jumps are of a higher quality (height, carry, landing) than Yulia’s in my opinion, and the artistry is a way better. My explanation for that - Yulia was already made Olympic champion, and her title carried a bigger weight in the judges' eyes (more than often the case with skating judging but so utterly unfair!)

Absolutely. 135 with a very flawed program, 2 falls?!@*$%8 And Yuna's flawless program received 144. I am guessing with 2 falls, Yuna would be below 135.

Mind. boggles.

P.S. Just looking at the reactions from live audience: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sho...e-Skate/page74

"This is Russia."
"***?"
"Oh come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Still first? Wow. Just wow."
"That is a load of bull. She should NOT be getting that score, ***?"
"Higher PCS than Mao "
"Disgusting."
"Gotta be f-ing kidding me."
"LOLOLOLOL. What a joke."
"Cup of Russia Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"Biggest judging scandal I've ever witnessed."

 

[AnastasiaO]

What did Yuna Kim say about Mao ? I heard that she spoke about her but I couldn't find anything

 

[Spinerette]

Polina skated well but she is rather bland. Like a second rate American Princess - or maybe princess in training. She doesn't skate (yet) with the conviction or assertiveness as the top ladies. She doesn't have a special quality like Yulia (who maybe picked excellent choices of music that worked with her personality).

I think Polina is actually more artistic. I don't buy into that Schindler's List program it's overwrought and it's same note throughout the same program. There's no nuance. And I thought that acrobatic spin did not go with that serious Schindler's list music. Joshua Farris's Schindler's List program is much more effective. And I don't believe it's just because Joshua is an older skater. I think the choreography is rather empty and uncreative. Illia Averbukh is a very bland choreographer.

I think we need to realize that a serious program doesn't always mean a good program. I think some people have this confused. When Carolina skated her Bolero right afterwards, Julia's technical deficiencies and lack of artistry looked even more apparent. Carolina was on fire during the whole Olympics.

 

[Spinerette]

All good points. Alberta. Polina is a budding artist too. She is nowhere near Yuna, Carolina or even Ashley yet, but she'll get there. Gracie is improving too. Certainly Yuna, Carolina, the Japanese (Mao and Akiko) and American (Gracie, Ashley and Polina) skaters and Julia are ahead of Adelina on artistry. In other words, IMHO, Adelina should have finished behind the eight skaters directly behind her in the standings on several aspects of PCS. I'm tired of people stating that it is much harder to learn the jumps, so they should get PCS handed to them. If it's so easy to be an artist, be one and earn the marks! If not, suffer the bad PCS from your lack of effort or interest.

Sasha Cohen at that age was more of an artist than Julia, Polina or even Gracie.

 

[capcomeback]

Sasha Cohen at that age was more of an artist than Julia, Polina or even Gracie.

Agreed, but at 15, Polina is a better artist than the 17 year old 2014 Olympic Gold Medalist. What was Adelina's choregraphy for her FS? David Lease from The Skating Lesson website (he maintains with Jenny Kirk) was quoted as saying that it looked like she was playing tug of war with herself out there. My theory is that she's deaf and can't hear the music. It would certainly explain her general lack of musicality. Like several of her PCS component scores, her interpretation marks make me wonder if some of the judges were tone deaf and rhythmically challenged or were they just cheating their @$$es off?

 

[Olympia]

Sasha Cohen at that age was more of an artist than Julia, Polina or even Gracie.

Well, Sasha had that dancer's carriage, whether from ballet training or some other source. That was one thing that struck me the year she showed up in Senior competition: she already looked refined and not at all gangly or coltish. Someone once said that she was the best skater around at that time from the ankles up, whereas Michelle had her beat from the ankles down. Michelle was plenty graceful in her own right, but of course she lacked the back flexibility that would have given her a higher grade of spins.

 

[Spinerette]

Agreed, but at 15, Polina is a better artist than the 17 year old 2014 Olympic Gold Medalist. What was Adelina's choregraphy for her FS? David Lease from The Skating Lesson website (he maintains with Jenny Kirk) was quoted as saying that it looked like she was playing tug of war with herself out there. My theory is that she's deaf and can't hear the music. It would certainly explain her general lack of musicality. Like several of her PCS component scores, her interpretation marks make me wonder if some of the judges were tone deaf and rhythmically challenged or were they just cheating their @$$es off?

They were cheating their asses off. Look, they said Adelina had better choreography and interpretation. And Julia fell twice and stumbled but was placed 5th.

 

[Spinerette]

Well, Sasha had that dancer's carriage, whether from ballet training or some other source. That was one thing that struck me the year she showed up in Senior competition: she already looked refined and not at all gangly or coltish. Someone once said that she was the best skater around at that time from the ankles up, whereas Michelle had her beat from the ankles down. Michelle was plenty graceful in her own right, but of course she lacked the back flexibility that would have given her a higher grade of spins.

Sasha was a gymnast. Michelle had deeper edges than Sasha. Sasha would sometimes have shallow foot work but she was perfection when it came to body line. The layback spins were one of the best along with Angela Nikodinov's laybacks.