The Judging Controversy Thread

[drivingmissdaisy]

What the ISU does not want is what we are doing right now -- saying that they are a bunch or crooks and here are the number to prove it. With anonymous judging we can still say they are a bunch or crooks, but we can't prove it.

I see why it is beneficial for the ISU to hide the nationalities, because even in cases where there was no collusion, it can appear that way given that European judges favor certain skating styles versus Western and Asian judges. However, it is better overall if everyone knows how these competitions are scored. The whole "all the judges represent only the ISU" argument is a complete farce.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I guess blatant favoritism is a bit different from simple preference. And 6-7 judges are not always there for Adelina; the averaged number does not negate that there were four strange judges.

You keep saying "four strange judges" but there is no compelling proof whatsoever that the four judges that scored Adelina the highest were the same four who scored Yuna the lowest. Moreover, even if that's the case, there is still one more judge who scored Adelina over 151, which is within the range of scores you find unacceptable.

 

[gmyers]

Hanyu can hug anyone he wants!

 

[Icey]

The variance in PC scores has led some to believe that as much as 20 percent of those scores result from personal bias, called "observer bias". Averaging these scores over many judges , of course, reduces the percent due to this bias, but some feel it remains around 2 per cent, which is not to be shrugged off imo.

 

[starrynight]

Sure, if you throw out the 5 Adelina scores 151+ and throw out Yuna's 5 lowest scores (not judges, mind you), Yuna would have a close win. I'm not sure what picking your 4 favorite scores for each skater proves though (?)

If I repeat, I will suffocate you with ad nauseum.

 

[Icey]

They need to go back to 12 judges for the Olympics and Worlds. Saying they don't have the money to do this is laughable.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Yuna's best LP score before her 150 was 134. Did someone cheat to have her score jump 16+ points for one program?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If I repeat, I will suffocate you with ad nauseum.

What I mean is that I read the article you posted about that and there is nothing to indicate how the judges match up across competitors. Maybe Adelina's highest judge was Yuna's 5th lowest; if so that throws the analysis out the window. I don't think cherry-picking numbers is a good way to make a math argument is all.

 

[starrynight]

You keep saying "four strange judges" but there is no compelling proof whatsoever that the four judges that scored Adelina the highest were the same four who scored Yuna the lowest. Moreover, even if that's the case, there is still one more judge who scored Adelina over 151, which is within the range of scores you find unacceptable.

The pattern of fantastic four shows up if you try combinations. And four is the minimum suspected for now; so it is potentially open to No. 5 who scored the said 151.

What I mean is that I read the article you posted about that and there is nothing to indicate how the judges match up across competitors. Maybe Adelina's highest judge was Yuna's 5th lowest; if so that throws the analysis out the window. I don't think cherry-picking numbers is a good way to make a math argument is all.

I did not cherry-pick numbers.

Yes if you hand select combinations, not if you generate them randomly.

Please do it randomly. :yay:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

The pattern of fantastic four shows up if you try combinations. And four is the minimum suspected for now; so it is potentially open to No. 5 who scored the said 151.

Yes if you hand select combinations, not if you generate them randomly.

 

[sk8in]

You keep saying "four strange judges" but there is no compelling proof whatsoever that the four judges that scored Adelina the highest were the same four who scored Yuna the lowest. Moreover, even if that's the case, there is still one more judge who scored Adelina over 151, which is within the range of scores you find unacceptable.

There doesn't have to be proof. The burden of explanation is on the ISU, and the judges in question. If 4 judges scored Adelina and Yuna with the premeditation of making Adelina win the competition, the is more than enough to completely ruin the competition's integrity.

 

[CarneAsada]

Yuna's best LP score before her 150 was 134. Did someone cheat to have her score jump 16+ points for one program?

Her "best LP" before Vancouver had a completely omitted 3Flip (for her that might be 7 points) and 5 points lower PCS. That explains 75% of the jump. Though it doesn't quite explain how 7 triples Yuna (Cup of Russia 2007) is somehow considered inferior to 5 triples Yuna (TEB 2009).

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Her "best LP" before Vancouver had a completely omitted 3Flip (for her that might be 7 points) and 5 points lower PCS. That explains 75% of the jump. Though it doesn't quite explain how 7 triples Yuna (Cup of Russia 2007) is somehow considered inferior to 5 triples Yuna (TEB 2009).

It's years on the scene that makes the difference. It's the same way Michelle Kwan with 7 triples didn't even podium at her first Worlds, but a few years after she was winning if she only did 6 triples.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Her "best LP" before Vancouver had a completely omitted 3Flip (for her that might be 7 points) and 5 points lower PCS. That explains 75% of the jump. Though it doesn't quite explain how 7 triples Yuna (Cup of Russia 2007) is somehow considered inferior to 5 triples Yuna (TEB 2009).

Yeah. Jumps in scores happen, I don't know why anyone is that surprised.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

Hanyu can hug anyone he wants!

And I'm sure everyone wants to hug him!

 

[Npmonice]

Yeah. Jumps in scores happen, I don't know why anyone is that surprised.

I would say people were more shocked than surprised when the scores appeared for Sotnikova.

 

[gkelly]

What I mean is that I read the article you posted about that and there is nothing to indicate how the judges match up across competitors. Maybe Adelina's highest judge was Yuna's 5th lowest; if so that throws the analysis out the window.

Maybe Adelina's highest judge was Yuna's highest judge -- that judge could have been marking high for everyone.

 

[cheerio2]

How is this any different from the Korean judge being on Yuna's Kiss and Cry show? I don't think there is anything strange about a judge and skater from the same skating federation knowing each other.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Please do it randomly. :yay:

Mathematically you cannot arrange the scores so that Adelina wins less than 4 or more than 9. Adelina will always have 4 or more in any combination; if you were to do it randomly, she would almost always get at least 5 because Yuna's 151 can displace one of Adelina's 151's. If it is matched to a higher score it is wasted and will lose, if it is matched to a lower score it will win but it would displace a lower Yuna score that would otherwise win. Further, if any of Yuna's scores aren't matched to the one or two it needs to be, it will displace another potentially winning pair or itself be a losing pair. Look into probability theory if you aren't buying what I'm selling.

 

[sk8in]

I don't understand where the merit is in this argument. You guys have really treaded out into the sticks. If the scores were corrupt, biased, or wrong to begin with, it doesn't matter how you combine them.