I asked for a source of this. Too bad you wasted your time in posting nonsense. Read more carefully next time.It is nice to see yet more confirmation of the level of desperation it took to dig up reasons to justify to themselves the farcial fixed outcome they were putting down on their scorecard.Anytime Alla is on a panel though the judges do what she wants. Ex ISU judge Jean Senft has mentioned how she goes so far as to physically threaten them if they do not. The only time she was on a panel and a Russian or her favorite did not win was the ice dance event at the SLC Olympics; and the judges who didnt were quite lucky if they escaped physically unharmed as according to Canadian skating writer Beverly Smith she ripped them a new one backstage. The fact she that desperately wanted to bully the others to crowing the horrific Lobacheva & Averbuhk as Olympic Champions shows she has absolutely no shame, conscience, or sense of moral whatsoever, as she yet again showed in Sochi.
The Judging Controversy Thread
- Thread starter Andre Smith
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
In addition to Balkov in '98, Alla Shekhovtseva was implicated by a Russian mobster in trying to fix the SLC games. She denied it and voted for the Russian team (over the French Ice dance team she was supposed to vote for). Whether or not she was guilty of this we may never know. Despite this, she has been a powerful, yet polarizing figure in her own country's skating community.
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Judging_controversy_surfaces_at_women_s_skating_.html?pagenum=full
http://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/more-on-the-womens-controversy/
http://www.pressherald.com/news/Judging_controversy_surfaces_at_women_s_skating_.html?pagenum=full
http://bevsmithwrites.wordpress.com/2014/02/22/more-on-the-womens-controversy/
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
The only thing that anyone can say for certain is that the Korean blog entry and the Russian article both seem to lose a lot in translation. Both the blogger and Tarasova are clearly partisan -- that comes through loud and clear. Aside from that, I honestly don't think either of the items has much credibility without (a) accurate translation; and (b) confirmation from other valid sources.
And yes, I firmly believe Yuna should have won but also believe that neither the blog nor the article provides objective support for that opinion.
And yes, I firmly believe Yuna should have won but also believe that neither the blog nor the article provides objective support for that opinion.
That's what happens when you use machine translation, they're not worth a damn.
An accurate translation already exists and has been posted here by lilahozi, who lifted it off fsuniverse without attribution. That's another thing you can say for certain.
The blog entry misstates what Tarasova said in her interview to prop up the conspiracy theory.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
This is a little better translation (of http://www.sovsport.ru/sochi/texts/text-item/687629 ) with Google Translate. Still. it's a pretty bad one (as it seems to translate word for word and doesn't seem to grasp idioms/slang/or tenses for verbs etc.
***
Tatiana Tarasova , consultant Russian team coach eleven Olympic champions, in an exclusive interview with " Soviet Sport " responds to the allegations made by the Western media of biased judging in women's free skate at the Olympics .
" We have long tolerated "
- Tatiana , the newspaper " L'Equipe ", followed by the Katarina Witt and Kurt Browning called scandalous refereeing .
- At the site of the French I'd paused . I will never forget "exploits" French judge at the Olympics in Salt Lake City, when a man was just a poor state of repair ... As for the rest , we will long endure. And now - sorry . The program is compiled by Kim old patterns . No connections between the elements of a jump was not eight or ten ... desertions were very well executed jumps, but there was no stage in the second half - axel - sheepskin or salhova - sheepskin of triple jumps . One of her crowning decorated rotation program. One ! All other rotation can only tick . Put them in principle impossible. So here , this part of the new figure skating - it failed. And it needs to be. The program consists not only of footwork , which is a circle ... It is more of the ligaments that go as an approach to each element. At Adeline jumps were perfect stage was in the second half , they were executed correctly . Yes, when she jumped stage flip - sheepskin - lutz , she struck a foot.
- But she got over it minus 0.9.
- That's it! Carolina Kostner skated an outstanding way , but she did not jump complex cascades. I believe that Kim could be compared only with Carolina . And with Adeline and can not be compared . You see , what Adeline sophisticated approaches and exits of jumps - it's a huge job! Adeline and the components had much to gain from Kim and Kim also for components gave a little more - and this should not be! I would put it less. Kim was not so high components , like Sotnikova . At Adeline was no one simple approach to jump , they all went through the elements through the triple hooks , vykryuki ...
- Why such an uproar in the West rose ? Irritate our victory?
- Madden . Kim even dress was from another time ... I understand , the judges did not appreciate the dress, but it's just a bar , a small detail , a talking piece nonetheless. Costumes , too little has changed ! Interpretation of the music I do not like in the short program , but she got there and high components evaluating supposed link movements with music - presentation of the program there was no ! We had a gorgeous Adeline short program , "Carmen" , tall jumps , huge . Rotation ... I can not compare their rotation - they can not be compared ! Kim , as I mentioned , there is one rotation deserves an excellent epithets - its old rotation, where it turns the body .
" Vodorezova DID NOT peel with ITS JUMPING "
- You talked already with Adeline ? What is she saying ?
- Just one moment. Yesterday. I went down to her for just a moment with his commentary position. Well, what say? She and speak more plainly could not. But happiness and joy, she did not now.
- When I tried to ask this question Alexander Gorshkov , he did not want to answer , I decided that I'm trying to overshadow the joy of victory, apparently ... But I still wonder . After Adeline was always so ... quite uneven .
- And I'll answer. Huge coaching work was done - Vodorezovoy , Irina Tagaeva and Petya Chernyshov . I was present , but was a bit on the sidelines , I did not want to disturb them , because they are all very well , rightly so . Work on the slip across the ligaments at the second evaluation. Vodorezova do not get down with jumps, she made sure that all Adeline jumped ! And flip with sheepskin and sheepskin - sheepskin and lutz - sheepskin . She's still in training lutz jumps - rittberger , it will certainly be his jump next year. Adeline took a very hard time making. Body was completely different. She grew up , was formed , but in terms of skating coaches while not miss anything! I am very glad that Peter Chernyshov load programs so I offered them to this music, but she almost did not put the program. And not like the program turned out to anybody ! Completely new direction ...
- Tatiana , tell us, please , this image in any program . From "Carmen" everything is transparent and accessible. What Adeline shows with "Rondo Capriccioso " - it is much harder to understand.
- It shows how people are torn between the classic and modern dance . That everything is going in general, from the classics , but in my heart there is a break , and one half of a person is drawn to classical art , the other is already seized plasticity of modern times. As two different directions coexist in man as he tries to combine them , and in the end it turns out that happiness , is perhaps the one and the other ... A new life infused into the old .
- Do you own a very good phrase , " the Olympic champion is immediately visible ." You also saw the Olympic champion in Sochi? And it was Adeline ?
- For the short program was seen. It has been seen for training . Adeline did not put in the team that won the gold medal , and that it really hurt. But this situation and it pulled . The desire was terrible ! Her tears made her stronger. And it's a very good sign , you know, a very good sign . When a girl does not break down in a difficult situation , and rises .
" GOOD LUCK PEOPLE VERY RARE "
- Adeline told me that it is completely detached themselves from everything . Including from this offense.
- It must be so ! People should be focused on yourself , otherwise you will not be able to achieve this goal. Generally at the Olympics has never been unfair refereeing . And here it is absolutely true .
Adelina - a great girl . She is a caring girl . She never missed if something you badly, she is always ready to help. They , together with Maxim Kovtun train, but a little at different times. Her parents , if necessary, zaedut him , it will remind Maxim if he forgets something . Know it to the sore spot may be applied ... She is very strong , somewhat weak , very different. But it is a very good man , and good luck to people very rarely ...
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
... desertions were very well executed jumps, but there was no stage in the second half - axel - sheepskin or salhova - sheepskin of triple jumps . One of her crowning decorated rotation program. One !
Sheepskin?
Sheepskin?
My Russian is rusty, but it looks like it's translating тулупа into sheepskin, when тулупа should be translated into toeloop. :think:
That really tickles me for some reason. Nice to know that we won't be totally replaced by computers for awhile yet.
Since lilahozi doesn't seem to want to come back and admit where she borrowed the language for her post, I'm going to start sending people directly to the freakin' source:
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?91562-Tarasova-quot-Kim-Was-Overscored!-quot
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
I think her Triple Sheepskin might have been under-rotated, lol.
On a serious note, she does make reference to the judges not appreciating Yuna's dress. Interesting that she was able to get the judges to open up to something like that (or maybe just Alla). Of course, this may be lost in the Google Translation.
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2014
Since I'm not a member I cannot access (nor do I want to join). I'm happy with the mediocre translation (as I can get the gist). I know Tarasova is pro-Adelina. Of course, she's going to say what she would to validate the judging (including taking a shot at Yuna's dress -though people in glass houses...).
It IS lost in translation. For the hundredth time, Tarasova makes no mention of what the judges thought of her dress. That's the whole point - don't you see? Someone misstated what Tarasova said, accused her of having inside judging information (i.e. speaking to judges about Kim's dress), and is selling it as fact to bolster their conspiracy theory.
I am going to post the actual translation for you - since the person who posted it did so without attribution and doesn't seem to want to acknowledge it.
Tarasova: "Kim Was Overscored!"
To dispel confusion, here is an actual translation of Tarasova's interview.
http://www.sovsport.md/sochi/texts/text-item/687629
WE'VE BEEN PATIENT FOR A LONG TIME
Q. L'Equipe, Katarina Witt and Kurt Browning described judging in the women's event as scandalous.
A. The French? If I were them, I'd just shut up. I'll never forget the antics of the French judge in Salt Lake City, when the woman was simply acting crazy. As for the rest, you know, we've been patient long enough. No more. Kim's program is a throwback. No connecting steps between jumps, eight to ten crossovers is all. She had beautiful jumps but no combination in the second half of the program - axel/toe lop, or salchow/toe lop. The only bright spot in this routine was her trademark spin. The only one! All other spins were just checking the boxes. She shouldn't even do them. So the new way of figure skating was missing. You had to see it. The routine is not just about a circular step sequence. You also need connecting steps leading into each element. Adelina had fabulous jumps, a combo late in the program, all done flawlessly. Although yes, she did touch down with her foot in her flip/toe-loop/lutz combo.
Q. And she received a deduction for that.
A. And that's it! Kostner showed outstanding skating but she didn't do any difficult combos. I think you could only compare Kim with Carolina but not with Adelina. Look at how difficult Adelina's jump entries and exits are! It's difficult to do that! Adelina should have outscored Kim in component scores by a large margins, and Kim actually received higher component scores, which shouldn't have happened! I would given her lower component scores. Adelina didn't have a single straightforward jump entry; all her jump approaches had tricks, 3-point turns, rocker turns, counter turns..
Q. So why is the West so up in arms about it? Are they just annoyed by our victories?
A. Yes, they are. Even Kim's dress was a throwback. I know the judges don't score the outfits but it's just a little thing that says a lot, regardless. The costumes have changed, too! In her short program, I didn't care for her interpretation of music one bit, but she received high component scores that assess how well her movements related to the music - well, there was none! Adelina had a fantastic short program, Carmen, huge jumps, and their spins simply couldn't be compared!! As I said, Kim only has one spin that deserves high marks - her old spin where she turns her torso out.
VODOREZOVA STAYED ON TOP OF HER JUMPS
Q. Have you spoken to Adelina? What does she say?
A. I just spoke to her for a minute yesterday. I went down to see her from my commentating booth. What does she say? She can't really talk right now. She's just overjoyed.
Q. When I tried asking the same question of Alexander Gorshkov, she chose not to answer, he thought I was trying to rain on her parade...but I AM interested..Adelina wasn't the most consistent skater ever.
A. Let ME answer you. Her coaches did a tremendous job - Vodorezova, Irina Tagayeva and Petya Chernyshev. I was there but stayed away, I didn't want to be in the way because they did everything right. They worked on gliding, transitions, component scores. Vodorezova stayed on top of her jumps, she made sure Adelina does all of them! Flip/toeloop, toeloop/toeloop, lutz/toeloop. She does a lutz/loop in practice, I'm sure she'll do it next season in competition. Adelina went through a very difficult transition. Her body changed completely. She grew up, filled out, and her coaches didn't miss a thing! I am very happy Petya did such a great job with her routines, I suggested that they use this music but had almost no hand in constructing the programs. And her routines are completely unique! It's a totally new direction!
Q. Can you explain her free program to us? I get Carmen, but I don't quite understand her Rondo Capriccioso.
A. She is showing people torn between classical and modern dance. All our roots are in classical, but the soul is splitting in two, one half is gravitating to classical, while the other is engrossed in the new way of moving. She's showing how these two different directions combine in one person, how people try to work them out and finally it becomes clear that happiness comes in may ways...the new life joins the old one.
Q. You also said something striking - "you can always tell an Olympic champion." Did you see an Olympic champion in Sochi? was it Adelina?
A. You could tell after the short program. You could tell at practice. She was left off the team event that earned a gold medal, and that hurt her feelings. But it also stoked her. She had a mad desire to win! Her tears made her stronger. And that, you know, is a great sign, a great sign. When a girl can rise above a challenge instead of getting broken.
GOOD PEOPLE ARE RARELY LUCKY
Q. Adelina said she tried to leave it all behind, including the pain of missing the team event.
A. That's how it should be! You should be focused on yourself, otherwise you won't reach that goal. The Olympic judging is always fair. And here, it was absolutely fair. Adelina is a splendid girl. A caring girl. She never misses it if you're not doing well, she's always ready to help. She trains with Maxim Kovtun, at slightly different times. Her parents sometimes come and pick him up, or she reminds him if he forgot something. She's so good you can put her on your sore spots like a bandaid. She's very strong. She's also weak sometimes. She is different. But she's a very good person, and good people are rarely lucky.
To dispel confusion, here is an actual translation of Tarasova's interview.
http://www.sovsport.md/sochi/texts/text-item/687629
WE'VE BEEN PATIENT FOR A LONG TIME
Q. L'Equipe, Katarina Witt and Kurt Browning described judging in the women's event as scandalous.
A. The French? If I were them, I'd just shut up. I'll never forget the antics of the French judge in Salt Lake City, when the woman was simply acting crazy. As for the rest, you know, we've been patient long enough. No more. Kim's program is a throwback. No connecting steps between jumps, eight to ten crossovers is all. She had beautiful jumps but no combination in the second half of the program - axel/toe lop, or salchow/toe lop. The only bright spot in this routine was her trademark spin. The only one! All other spins were just checking the boxes. She shouldn't even do them. So the new way of figure skating was missing. You had to see it. The routine is not just about a circular step sequence. You also need connecting steps leading into each element. Adelina had fabulous jumps, a combo late in the program, all done flawlessly. Although yes, she did touch down with her foot in her flip/toe-loop/lutz combo.
Q. And she received a deduction for that.
A. And that's it! Kostner showed outstanding skating but she didn't do any difficult combos. I think you could only compare Kim with Carolina but not with Adelina. Look at how difficult Adelina's jump entries and exits are! It's difficult to do that! Adelina should have outscored Kim in component scores by a large margins, and Kim actually received higher component scores, which shouldn't have happened! I would given her lower component scores. Adelina didn't have a single straightforward jump entry; all her jump approaches had tricks, 3-point turns, rocker turns, counter turns..
Q. So why is the West so up in arms about it? Are they just annoyed by our victories?
A. Yes, they are. Even Kim's dress was a throwback. I know the judges don't score the outfits but it's just a little thing that says a lot, regardless. The costumes have changed, too! In her short program, I didn't care for her interpretation of music one bit, but she received high component scores that assess how well her movements related to the music - well, there was none! Adelina had a fantastic short program, Carmen, huge jumps, and their spins simply couldn't be compared!! As I said, Kim only has one spin that deserves high marks - her old spin where she turns her torso out.
VODOREZOVA STAYED ON TOP OF HER JUMPS
Q. Have you spoken to Adelina? What does she say?
A. I just spoke to her for a minute yesterday. I went down to see her from my commentating booth. What does she say? She can't really talk right now. She's just overjoyed.
Q. When I tried asking the same question of Alexander Gorshkov, she chose not to answer, he thought I was trying to rain on her parade...but I AM interested..Adelina wasn't the most consistent skater ever.
A. Let ME answer you. Her coaches did a tremendous job - Vodorezova, Irina Tagayeva and Petya Chernyshev. I was there but stayed away, I didn't want to be in the way because they did everything right. They worked on gliding, transitions, component scores. Vodorezova stayed on top of her jumps, she made sure Adelina does all of them! Flip/toeloop, toeloop/toeloop, lutz/toeloop. She does a lutz/loop in practice, I'm sure she'll do it next season in competition. Adelina went through a very difficult transition. Her body changed completely. She grew up, filled out, and her coaches didn't miss a thing! I am very happy Petya did such a great job with her routines, I suggested that they use this music but had almost no hand in constructing the programs. And her routines are completely unique! It's a totally new direction!
Q. Can you explain her free program to us? I get Carmen, but I don't quite understand her Rondo Capriccioso.
A. She is showing people torn between classical and modern dance. All our roots are in classical, but the soul is splitting in two, one half is gravitating to classical, while the other is engrossed in the new way of moving. She's showing how these two different directions combine in one person, how people try to work them out and finally it becomes clear that happiness comes in may ways...the new life joins the old one.
Q. You also said something striking - "you can always tell an Olympic champion." Did you see an Olympic champion in Sochi? was it Adelina?
A. You could tell after the short program. You could tell at practice. She was left off the team event that earned a gold medal, and that hurt her feelings. But it also stoked her. She had a mad desire to win! Her tears made her stronger. And that, you know, is a great sign, a great sign. When a girl can rise above a challenge instead of getting broken.
GOOD PEOPLE ARE RARELY LUCKY
Q. Adelina said she tried to leave it all behind, including the pain of missing the team event.
A. That's how it should be! You should be focused on yourself, otherwise you won't reach that goal. The Olympic judging is always fair. And here, it was absolutely fair. Adelina is a splendid girl. A caring girl. She never misses it if you're not doing well, she's always ready to help. She trains with Maxim Kovtun, at slightly different times. Her parents sometimes come and pick him up, or she reminds him if he forgot something. She's so good you can put her on your sore spots like a bandaid. She's very strong. She's also weak sometimes. She is different. But she's a very good person, and good people are rarely lucky.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
While she is understandably biased towards a fellow Russian whom she has worked with, it was great to read her insight. None of her comments about Yuna seemed personal, but rather directed towards her program and costume.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2010
Is this your translation? You could have saved alot of time saying it is your translation without making disparaging remarks about other members when they are not here to defend themselves. Guess what, it is not the greatest crime in the world to share interesting information, who forgot to credit the source.
I visited the link
http://www.sovsport.ru/sochi/texts/text-item/687629
Using google translation, 3rd question. This is the translation
I have used Chinese translation as well. It is the same result, so what is the big deal? How much more source and evidence do you need?
In anycase this is hardly important, but your behaviour seriously undermine any point you are making.
I personally think it is kind of silly to criticize outfits. Kim looked beautiful so I don't see what bone Tarasova had to pick with that. To be honest, Adelina's costume was not all that. Tarasova's entitled to her own opinion, of course. For my taste, I prefer lady skaters to be a bit more covered up. That's MY personal opinion, nothing more.
Tarasova is undeniably partisan, I always thought of her as a mama bear type - if you have her in your corner, you're set.
I second to this. We need comments from professionals, not just those "smart" fans who think they can do better job than the judges. TT used to praise Kim a lot. And she always does this with her heart.
