The Judging Controversy Thread

[OS]

Here is one suggestion going forward: Release tech panel's decision making process and make it public. Allow recording of the process by broadcasters with permissions: papers, screenshots, voice recording, video recording, etc.

This should not cost much $$, if at all, in the grand scheme of things. (I think there will be volunteering broadcasters) Does anyone object to this proposal on a principle? I am theory-crafting here.

What they should do is to go over all the records of the judging decision of every one on that judging panel, since their CV history should more than indicate their personal biases, preferences and judging trends. If they all share something in common (ie/strong preference of one particular skater/nationality/styles, or dislike of another), then there are sufficient ground for a biased panel therefore mistrial. Or they don't have to disclose to public but investigate by an independent auditing team that public can trust to look into this made of different nationalities of high reputation individuals. Nationalities with no conflict of interests to the competition and skaters nationality, not selected by ISU.

Will it happen? Highly unlikely unless someone fire speedy and start a movement of accountability, transparency to regain public trust and importantly to show all skater where ever they are from, they can believe and trust in the system again. Otherwise this sport will only ever be a musical chair contest between 4/5 nations, kind of like how it is now.

Problem is never with the system, it has always to do with the judges and the management of the judges. A sport that relies on 100% human judgements, should be managed with greater care through social science field (including psychology, cognitive sciences. human condition etc) Decisions need to be justified in words with feelings, interpretations, opinions and not binary decimal points, especially disparity of these binaries are often not explainable nor re calibrated between competitions, between skating orders, even between federations and home events.

 

[skatedreamer]

Does anyone want to make a prediction re: when this thread will hit 200 pages?

(Was going to suggest taking bets but realized that might create a spot of bother for everyone. )

 

[ILuvYuna]

Does anyone want to make a prediction re: when this thread will hit 200 pages?

(Was going to suggest taking bets but realized that might create a spot of bother for everyone. )

Today at 4:20 pm eastern time

 

[Spinerette]

Well, I didn't mention PCS...so no, it has nothing to do with PCS.



gkelly, I admire and respect your commitment to defending the judging system, explaining it, and support of its integrity, but it's clear we won't see eye to eye on this.

If the technical panel didn't have a good view of the jump to see the edge change, didn't review it, and did not give the skater either an edge call or UR call that is visible with other angles, then the technical panel and the equipment and the system failed. It simply defies belief that that could happen at the Olympics. If that's what happened, that's still a failure for the technical panel, and it's also embarrassing.

This competition was the Olympics. It is the most important competition for figure skating of the last 4 years. The scores and the technical calls given should be defensible for posterity. They are not in the case of Adelina's 3Lz/3T.

And while I can't prove that the rules weren't followed, neither can you prove that the rules were actually followed. But when a skater who has gotten called on her flutz in her career at most every ISU competition manages to not get called on it at the Olympics in Russia, I'd say there's more evidence on one side of the argument than the other that this was not just a bad call, but a deliberately bad call that favored one skater over another.

There's no excuse. They called the UR of Mao Asada and LiZhijun and edge calls of many others but decided not to call Adelina's who has a history of these mistakes. There's no excuse when there's video replay now. They chose not to call it.

 

[leafygreens]

Could you elaborate?

capcomeback elaborated; I was merely agreeing. There's not much more that can be added.

 

[usethis2]

Oh, geez. Friendly advice: Do not bite her baits.

 

[ILuvYuna]

There's no excuse. They called the UR of Mao Asada and LiZhijun and edge calls of many others but decided not to call Adelina's who has a history of these mistakes. There's no excuse when there's video replay now. They chose not to call it.

I wonder how many of the total flutzes called that night happened in the same area as Adelina's? That would pretty much settle the argument that the tech panel's cutting edge "gadgetry" somehow missed it

 

[Spinerette]

I wonder how many of the total flutzes called that night happened in the same area as Adelina's? That would pretty much settle the argument that the tech panel's cutting edge "gadgetry" somehow missed it

We need a court case. The technical panel committed fraud.

 

[Icey]

Well, I think this is quite an impressive spiral... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjX0dntcBsg#t=98

It is fine, but the candle stick spiral requires the free leg be higher than hers was. OMG that dress!!!! In the first spiral, the free leg was unsteady as she went into position.

 

[Spinerette]

An interesting account of what happened backstage after Yuna skated. Tarasova also stated that the judges didn't like Yuna's dress. Is that a good enough reason to give her the silver? And how does Tarasova know what the judges said unless Alla told her. I wouldn't be surprised if Alla and Tatiana are BFFs. I liked Yuna's dress, it was lovely chartreuse very 60's, very different, very retro. Tarasova is the one who sent out Illia Kulik in that hideous giraffe shirt in 98, oh please.

http://hashmi1212.tumblr.com/post/78416038959

 

[VirMo]

An interesting account of what happened backstage after Yuna skated. Tarasova also stated that the judges didn't like Yuna's dress. Is that a good enough reason to give her the silver? And how does Tarasova know what the judges said unless Alla told her. I wouldn't be surprised if Alla and Tatiana are BFFs. I liked Yuna's dress, it was lovely chartreuse very 60's, very different, very retro. Tarasova is the one who sent out Illia Kulik in that hideous giraffe shirt in 98, oh please.

http://hashmi1212.tumblr.com/post/78416038959

It just seems more and more obvious to me that they are all buddies

 

[Nadya]

An interesting account of what happened backstage after Yuna skated. Tarasova also stated that the judges didn't like Yuna's dress. Is that a good enough reason to give her the silver? And how does Tarasova know what the judges said unless Alla told her. I wouldn't be surprised if Alla and Tatiana are BFFs. I liked Yuna's dress, it was lovely chartreuse very 60's, very different, very retro. Tarasova is the one who sent out Illia Kulik in that hideous giraffe shirt in 98, oh please.

http://hashmi1212.tumblr.com/post/78416038959

Another Korean barbecue dish where all ingredients are thrown together without rhyme or reason. Tarasova didn't say the judges disliked Yuna's dress. She said that she - personally - disliked it. Since it wasn't the judges' opinion but rather Tarasova's own, the question of "how she knew what the judges said" is dumb on its face.

Yet another example of a dumbass with no other gifts except Internet access who saw half of something somewhere, made up his own story and couldn't wait before posting it somewhere.

The judges were determined to give the gold to a Russian at any cost? How droll. Considering all that had to happen to overthrow this is one fall from either Russian, who weren't exactly known for consistency. It was more of a surprise that Adelina didn't fall.

 

[Mrs. P]

Another Korean barbecue dish where all ingredients are thrown together without rhyme or reason. Tarasova didn't say the judges disliked Yuna's dress. She said that she - personally - disliked it. Since it wasn't the judges' opinion but rather Tarasova's own, the question of "how she knew what the judges said" is dumb on its face.

Yet another example of a dumbass with no other gifts except Internet access who saw half of something somewhere, made up his own story and couldn't wait before posting it somewhere.

The judges were determined to give the gold to a Russian at any cost? How droll. Considering all that had to happen to overthrow this is one fall from either Russian, who weren't exactly known for consistency. It was more of a surprise that Adelina didn't fall.

Is it really necessary to bring Korean cuisine into all this?

For the record, I love Korean BBQ. I might go get some tonight!

But seriously, insulting a country's cuisine really doesn't add to your argument.

 

[Spinerette]

Another Korean barbecue dish where all ingredients are thrown together without rhyme or reason. Tarasova didn't say the judges disliked Yuna's dress. She said that she - personally - disliked it. Since it wasn't the judges' opinion but rather Tarasova's own, the question of "how she knew what the judges said" is dumb on its face.

Yet another example of a dumbass with no other gifts except Internet access who saw half of something somewhere, made up his own story and couldn't wait before posting it somewhere.

The judges were determined to give the gold to a Russian at any cost? How droll. Considering all that had to happen to overthrow this is one fall from either Russian, who weren't exactly known for consistency. It was more of a surprise that Adelina didn't fall.

I don't think adding garlic, scallions and soy sauce together is without rhyme nor reason. You could have chosen a better comparison. Well if Adelina's score was maybe a point ahead and beat Yuna that way there wouldn't have been such a fuss. Alla hugging Adelina didn't help either. So you thought Adelina's flutz, stumble from the loop and the UR on the toe should have garnered her that gold? Also add to that pile of mistakes, you have empty choreography and messy foot work, LOL.

 

[Nadya]

I don't think adding garlic, scallions and soy sauce together is without rhyme nor reason. You could have chosen a better comparison. Well if Adelina's score was maybe a point ahead and beat Yuna that way there wouldn't have been such a fuss. Alla hugging Adelina didn't help either. So you thought Adelina's flutz, stumble from the loop and the UR on the toe should have garnered her that gold? Also add to that pile of mistakes, you have empty choreography and messy foot work, LOL.

Are you going to admit you made up what Tarasova said?

 

[Nadya]

Is it really necessary to bring Korean cuisine into all this?

For the record, I love Korean BBQ. I might go get some tonight!

But seriously, insulting a country's cuisine really doesn't add to your argument.

Yes, that may not have been my shining moment. But putting words in someone's mouth to make up a better story? Yeah, um, not the best strategy either.

 

[starrynight]

Another Korean barbecue dish where all ingredients are thrown together without rhyme or reason.

Would anybody please explain what this sentence exactly means? A BBQ needs a rhyme?

 

[Nadya]

An interesting account of what happened backstage after Yuna skated. Tarasova also stated that the judges didn't like Yuna's dress. Is that a good enough reason to give her the silver? And how does Tarasova know what the judges said unless Alla told her. I wouldn't be surprised if Alla and Tatiana are BFFs. I liked Yuna's dress, it was lovely chartreuse very 60's, very different, very retro. Tarasova is the one who sent out Illia Kulik in that hideous giraffe shirt in 98, oh please.

http://hashmi1212.tumblr.com/post/78416038959

Did YOU make this up, or did the writer you cited made that up, and you're only guilty of ill-advised citations other than outright lies?

 

[Nadya]

Would anybody please explain what this sentence exactly means? A BBQ needs a rhyme?

I see that English is not your first language, so I'm going to be gentle. "Without rhyme or reason" doesn't need to apply only to language-based works, it simply means something nonsensical - like making up stories about who said what to bolster your own arguments.

 

[usethis2]

Would anybody please explain what this sentence exactly means? A BBQ needs a rhyme?

No need to worry about such old fashioned expression. I think I've heard my grandma saying that once in my life. She's 89.

As to that article, it is indeed empty although it does not surprise me that Tarasova has something negative to say about Yuna. That one thing she could fault Yuna for was her dress is telling.