The Judging Controversy Thread

[Sam-Skwantch]

200+ pages and still nobody can answer this.

Would you be so kind as to answer it for us. I'm very curious as to how you know which judges gave which skaters what scores and why.

 

[chuckm]

Blah, blah, blah. According to Tarasova, all the skaters except the Russians were overscored. So what else is new?

 

[pangtongfan]

Or this.

Order the book of Beverly Smith which was published post Nagano, and then the other on Sale Pelletier published post SLC, and you will exactly what I am talking about.

 

[pangtongfan]

How can a skater who deserved 4 world titles and 2 Olympic golds in their career and won only 2 world titles and 1 Olympic gold be overscored. In hindsight it seems Kim was probably one of the most underscored skaters in history as I cant think of many skaters who deserved twice the Olympic/World titles as they were allowed. Her 3 actual Olympic and World golds were also unquestionable with it being impossible to even make a remote case for anyone else. Anytime it was remotedly close she lost, no matter who it was against, showing she was the judges least favorite of all the top skaters.

I would say in the aftermath of her career she was the most underscored skater since Lu Chen who in fact deserved 4 world/Olympic golds but was only allowed 1.

 

[pangtongfan]

Blah, blah, blah. According to Tarasova, all the skaters except the Russians were overscored. So what else is new?

Yes, I am sure she feels I&K were "robbed" of the dance gold too. Plushenko probably should have been awarded the mens gold despite his WD too.

 

[Nadya]

Order the book of Beverly Smith which was published post Nagano, and then the other on Sale Pelletier published post SLC, and you will exactly what I am talking about.

Too much work; if you have them, you can retype and post.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

How can a skater who deserved 4 world titles and 2 Olympic golds in their career and won only 2 world titles and 1 Olympic gold be overscored.

I thought you believed Caro deserved gold in Sochi.

 

[kwanatic]

I think the only area Yu-Na was overscored was in Transitions. TAT makes a fair point about the intricacies of the transitions and linking moves in Adelina's program versus Yu-Na's. Adelina's program is very busy with transitions into and out of everything while Yu-Na's has transitions but not as many and not as difficult/intricate.

I actually find both Yu-Na and Carolina to be overscored in transitions. Just count the consecutive crossovers compared to others. They often receive top scores in this category though both deserve to be lower than a number of skaters, including Mao.

 

[sk8in]

time for the grandkids to start looking for a home to put her in, i think she's finally gone senile

After calling Kim's program "old fashioned." Irony at its best.

 

[BlackPack]

Oh Jeez.... this might just inspire the North and South Koreans to reunite and finally use up their nuclear facilities. Don't they remember that the Korean peninsula does border a bit of Russia?

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

time for the grandkids to start looking for a home to put her in, i think she's finally gone senile

Very classy to personally attack someone for their age, simply because you disagree with them.

 

[hanca]

thank goodness, someone finally said it
Kim was overscored throught her career though ome had basis for her inflated marks skating cleanly of course

I never thought I would agree with you about anything. Well, for once I do. I believe Kim was overscored too. She should be third and Kostner second... and I also agree that she has been overscored throughout her career. Especially at the worlds 2010. after Sometimes it felt that she can just get on the ice and doesn't have to even bother to skate; they will always find something to give her the points.

 

[hanca]

How can a skater who deserved 4 world titles and 2 Olympic golds in their career and won only 2 world titles and 1 Olympic gold be overscored.

How? Look at Chan...can you say that he deserved his last two world titles?

 

[chuckm]

Of course, Tarasova HERSELF sat on the judging panel, along with her pals Yuri Balkov and Zanna Kulik. So who is she to comment on the judging?

 

[pangtongfan]

I think the only area Yu-Na was overscored was in Transitions. TAT makes a fair point about the intricacies of the transitions and linking moves in Adelina's program versus Yu-Na's. Adelina's program is very busy with transitions into and out of everything while Yu-Na's has transitions but not as many and not as difficult/intricate.

I actually find both Yu-Na and Carolina to be overscored in transitions. Just count the consecutive crossovers compared to others. They often receive top scores in this category though both deserve to be lower than a number of skaters, including Mao.

Transitions or not just about how many you have but about how well and smoothly they are done. In any case the judges don't differentiate the PCS, they are all marked the same relatively. Which is why PCS becomes pointless. Sasha was given the highest scores for skating skills, even though her skating skills were garbage compared to Irina, Shizuka, or even Fumie or Michelle. All because she was great in the other 4. Chan is giving the highest in interpretation and performance, even when Takahashi was at his peak. There is no point having separate categories.

 

[ramalama]

*irony mode* Oh, of course she was! Everybody knows that Lipnitskaya should has been second. *irony mode off*

 

[pangtongfan]

How? Look at Chan...can you say that he deserved his last two world titles?

I didn't say anything about Chan in this thread now did I.

 

[jenaj]

How can a skater who deserved 4 world titles and 2 Olympic golds in their career and won only 2 world titles and 1 Olympic gold be overscored. In hindsight it seems Kim was probably one of the most underscored skaters in history as I cant think of many skaters who deserved twice the Olympic/World titles as they were allowed. Her 3 actual Olympic and World golds were also unquestionable with it being impossible to even make a remote case for anyone else. Anytime it was remotedly close she lost, no matter who it was against, showing she was the judges least favorite of all the top skaters.

I would say in the aftermath of her career she was the most underscored skater since Lu Chen who in fact deserved 4 world/Olympic golds but was only allowed 1.

I can see the case for World gold in 2011 (but don't necessarily agree with it) but what other World title should she have won? And when should Chen have won Olympic gold? I don't think Yuna was overscored or underscored over the course of her career. At Sochi, another skater was overscored and that is why Yuna won silver instead of gold.

 

[kwanatic]

Transitions or not just about how many you have but about how well and smoothly they are done. In any case the judges don't differentiate the PCS, they are all marked the same relatively. Which is why PCS becomes pointless. Sasha was given the highest scores for skating skills, even though her skating skills were garbage compared to Irina, Shizuka, or even Fumie or Michelle. All because she was great in the other 4. Chan is giving the highest in interpretation and performance, even when Takahashi was at his peak. There is no point having separate categories.

I agree. If they are going to pick a range and award marks regardless of if the skater has done enough to warrant them, they should just do away with breaking things up into categories and just award one number. Hell, we do it all the time (So-and-so should get around a 31+, so-and-other-so should get around 33+).

If the judges aren't going to follow the criteria, why even bother?

 

[hanca]

I didn't say anything about Chan in this thread now did I.

No, but you are asking how a person can be overmarked when that person won some titles. so I am giving you a pretty good example how that happens.