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Okay, now I'm confused. Is it that this thread is bashing Adelina or that you posters objecting to this thread are being bashed? I'm suddenly seeing a shift in the argument which is a little confusing.
Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS
- Thread starter Blades of Passion
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Okay, now I'm confused. Is it that this thread is bashing Adelina or that you posters objecting to this thread are being bashed? I'm suddenly seeing a shift in the argument which is a little confusing.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Well you brought up the off topic statement. I was just responding to what you wrote. What did you think about Adelina's steps, since that is the topic here?
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The rule is quite clear. The interpretation given by Blades of Passion is not an interpretation at all -- it is just reading the words before us. Neither the ISU nor the IOC can change the result even if if is proved that the technical specialist and judges made mistakes.
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Well that was an interesting smokescreen / diversion.
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Of course it's more than wondering, it's actual judging. Something I am capable of, much moreso than most sitting judges, and something many other experts of this sport are capable of.
BTW, I've never called Adelina's choreography outright bad. I have even defended it against people who've said it was nothing but horrible/junior level. Of course, I don't think her choreography was great either.
Neither of these things have been talked about in THIS thread, however. So why are you talking about it now instead of the actual issue at hand?
The former is not a personal attack, it's a factual assessment of your ability to read the ISU rule.
The latter was never said by me and has nothing to do with Adelina or you or the scoring, so why are you talking about it?
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We get it. You know more than all the experts who disagree with you. You don't have to keep reminding us of this.
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- Sep 14, 2008
What experts? The judges are mostly not experts. They are not given sufficient training and there is no specific standard they are held to other than being in the 'corridor' with each other. And then of course there are the conflicts of interest...
I think there are some on these boards that are basically incapable of understanding that part and, thus, actually justify the French getting kicked off the podium in Ice Dance in favor of a good (but objectively worse) young Russian team, or Mao Asada getting beaten by an inferior Russian skater in both the technical mark (despite having one more triple than her closest competition) and the PCS (despite having a program that was artistically light years ahead and also creating a real, genuine, non home-cooked Olympic moment by bouncing back from severe disappointment in the short program). Let's face it, these games will always have an asterisk by them as will the Russian skaters who got on the podium because it's just too obvious that their marks were not deserved.
Still, I've gotta hand it to all the non-Russian skaters who got on to that rink and skated their best despite performing in front of a pretty classless audience and an obviously corrupt judging panel.
I have seen numerous times scores changed in the time a competition is going on. Unless there is a time limit for score changes scores can be changed and are changed all time.
Good idea! :thumbsup:
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- Jun 21, 2003
I think there is a time limit -- 30 minutes? -- if you want to protest the scoring. To overturn a result after the fact, I think this can happen only in the case of an athlete failing a drug test or some kind of cheating on the part of the athlete -- like the fencer in 1976 who wired his suit to buzz a touch when he pushed a button concealed in his hand. -- that sort of thing. There have been many times (in boxing for instance) where the judge was suspended after the bout for favoritism, politics, or bias -- but the result stands. I believe that the reason for this is so that people cannot pressure anyone after the event is done.
IIRC, Tim Woods lost the 1968 Olympic Gold medal because one of the judges held up his cards in the wrong order and gave a 3.5 instead of a 5.3 on one of his figures -- something like that. Too bad.
This is over.
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well its official. i will click on anything online. but i'm glad i clicked on this thread. not knowing how adelina got the marks she got was keeping me up at night. BoP, i agree with everything you've said, right down to a certain former olympic champion's unnnaturally fat cheeks.
You're ignoring all the professionals who weren't on the judging panel and panned Adelina's choreography/skating skills. She is a laughing stock among people who know about skating. It is not a controversy because everyone is a hardcore Yuna Kim fan. It is a controversy because Adelina is just not that good.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Do you feel that the tech panels are also insufficiently trained?
As far as the judges are concerned, for the most part they do grade the programs closely to one another, with the exception of a few outliers.
While you may be right that there is insufficient training for judges, 8 of the 9 judges scored Adelina very high on her steps and her choreography. That your assessment is more in-line with the outlier, rather than the group of 8, raises questions. Do you think all eight of those judges are either (a) insufficiently trained or (b) biased? There were several judges from countries that would no doubt not be partial towards Adelina but should have sufficient training, IIRC these include CAN, JPN, FRA, GER and ITA. I would expect more than one of these countries would send a judge that you feel is properly trained.
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Like Elvis, Scott, Sandra, Tara, Johnny and Tatiana? Or just the people you agree with?
There is a difference between fs pr reps saying "it was totally fair!" so as not to discredit the sport that they profit from, and anyone actually endorsing Sotnikova's skating. Everyone knows she does not have the skating skill of Caro, or Yuna---and it is debatable where she stands against the other top 5 ladies. The whole false "artist" vs "technician" dichotomy got started as a way to explain away how such an ugly skater as Sotnikova could have won by 5 points. Again, Sotnikova is a laughing stock. She will go down in history as the most controversial women's figure skating champ in history.
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- Sep 14, 2008
As requested, I have written down all of the movements in Yu-Na Kim's LP footwork sequence:
1.) Toe step, counterclockwise
2.) Back edge pull with free foot toepick push, clockwise
3.) Mohawk, clockwise
4.) Waltz hop, clockwise
5.) Cross step, clockwise
6.) Change of edge from inside to outside with free foot in quick ina position, counterclockwise
7.) Change edge from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
8.) Rocker, clockwise
9.) Bracket, clockwise
10.) Counter, clockwise
11.) Cross Roll, counterclockwise
12.) Rocker, counterclockwise
13). Change edge from outside to inside
14.) Loop, counterclockwise
15.) Full turn on ice while changing feet, counterclockwise
16.) Toe steps, clockwise
17.) Rocker, clockwise
18.) Cross step, counterclockwise
19.) Choctaw executed with a hop, clockwise
20.) Twizzle, clockwise
21.) Chasse, clockwise
22.) Choctaw, clockwise + Choctaw, counterclockwise
23.) Top hop, counterclockwise
24.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
25.) Rocker, counterclockwise
26.) Edge change from inside to outside
27.) Three turn, counterclockwise
28.) Brief back inside two foot glide with back free foot mini-kick
29.) Choctaw, clockwise
30.) Three turn, clockwise
31.) Loop, clockwise
32.) Toe hop, clockwise
33.) Chasse, counterclockwise
34.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
35.) Bracket, counterclockwise
36.) Cross step, clockwise
37.) Cross step, counterclockwise
38.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot push, clockwise
39.) Toe step, clockwise
40.) Counter, counterclockwise
41.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
42.) Three turn, counterclockwise
43.) Rocker, counterclockwise
44.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot placed on ice, counterclockwise
45.) Change of foot with free foot push, counterclockwise
46.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
47.) Chasse, counterclockwise
48.) Toe step, clockwise
49.) Cross step, counterclockwise
50.) Chasse, counterclockwise
51.) Toe step, counterclockwise
She has 6 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Counter, Three
She had 4 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Choctaw
She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.
This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.
1.) Toe step, counterclockwise
2.) Back edge pull with free foot toepick push, clockwise
3.) Mohawk, clockwise
4.) Waltz hop, clockwise
5.) Cross step, clockwise
6.) Change of edge from inside to outside with free foot in quick ina position, counterclockwise
7.) Change edge from outside to inside with free foot placed on ice
8.) Rocker, clockwise
9.) Bracket, clockwise
10.) Counter, clockwise
11.) Cross Roll, counterclockwise
12.) Rocker, counterclockwise
13). Change edge from outside to inside
14.) Loop, counterclockwise
15.) Full turn on ice while changing feet, counterclockwise
16.) Toe steps, clockwise
17.) Rocker, clockwise
18.) Cross step, counterclockwise
19.) Choctaw executed with a hop, clockwise
20.) Twizzle, clockwise
21.) Chasse, clockwise
22.) Choctaw, clockwise + Choctaw, counterclockwise
23.) Top hop, counterclockwise
24.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
25.) Rocker, counterclockwise
26.) Edge change from inside to outside
27.) Three turn, counterclockwise
28.) Brief back inside two foot glide with back free foot mini-kick
29.) Choctaw, clockwise
30.) Three turn, clockwise
31.) Loop, clockwise
32.) Toe hop, clockwise
33.) Chasse, counterclockwise
34.) Curve with change of edge, clockwise
35.) Bracket, counterclockwise
36.) Cross step, clockwise
37.) Cross step, counterclockwise
38.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot push, clockwise
39.) Toe step, clockwise
40.) Counter, counterclockwise
41.) Twizzle, counterclockwise (x2)
42.) Three turn, counterclockwise
43.) Rocker, counterclockwise
44.) Half turn and edge change from inside to outside with free foot placed on ice, counterclockwise
45.) Change of foot with free foot push, counterclockwise
46.) Illusion turn, counterclockwise
47.) Chasse, counterclockwise
48.) Toe step, clockwise
49.) Cross step, counterclockwise
50.) Chasse, counterclockwise
51.) Toe step, counterclockwise
She has 6 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Counter, Three
She had 4 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Choctaw
She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.
This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.
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