The Judging Controversy Thread | Page 157 | Golden Skate

The Judging Controversy Thread

You have no proof that the blogger maliciously lied and "put words in Tarasova's mouth to build up their agenda" versus just using an incorrect translation.

You're right, there is no proof that the blogger maliciously lied to build up his/her agenda. To use a google translation in order to understand a language it's just ridiculous and dare I say stupid? I would never put an article translated with google, or other similar sources, even in my private FB let alone a pubblic blog.
However, to belive in such translations and use it in order to back your idea it is kind of "building your own agenda", IMO. When I say "your idea" it's not referred to you personally.
I read that translation and although english it's not my mother tounge I could not belive that some were still insisting with it. It didn't make any sense.


@All: About the dress. I'm surprised that you people who are so passionate and follow figure skating so much think that's not something that judges talk and see. Hell, commentators and ex skaters talks about it all time. The canadian commentator, a woman, siad about Grishuk&Platov costumes in Nagano that they were a copy of T&D bolero, for example.
There are no scores for the costumes, but they do make an impression and are considered in a overall perfomance, or package if you like.
The British Ice Dance judge in Sarajevo designed the costumes for T&D. Judges do tell skaters which music to use and which not, among other things in order to help them. A costume can help with the body lines as well, it's not such a silly thing.

I don't know if Tarasova new something about it from the judges, I have no idea, but she is entitled to give her opinion on the dress. As I said, commentators do that all the time, so why not her? Is she passing her opinion/idea as a fact? I don't know, possibly yes. After all she is biased in this case, but if Christine Brennan, or any other journalist, ex-skater and commentator that Ive heard or read so far, can do it, than certainly Tarasova can. To feel outrageous about it, just because you don't like it, it's a bit hypocritical.

Having said that, I really don't think Kim lost because of her costume. On the other hand Adelina's SP dress was horrible.:disapp:
 
Having said that, I really don't think Kim lost because of her costume. On the other hand Adelina's SP dress was horrible.:disapp:

She didn't. These costumes are always polarizing and unless they are overly distracting, or especially elegant, I think they have no effect at all on the marks.
 
You're right, there is no proof that the blogger maliciously lied to build up his/her agenda. To use a google translation in order to understand a language it's just ridiculous and dare I say stupid? I would never put an article translated with google, or other similar sources, even in my private FB let alone a pubblic blog.
However, to belive in such translations and use it in order to back your idea it is kind of "building your own agenda", IMO. When I say "your idea" it's not referred to you personally.
I read that translation and although english it's not my mother tounge I could not belive that some were still insisting with it. It didn't make any sense.


@All: About the dress. I'm surprised that you people who are so passionate and follow figure skating so much think that's not something that judges talk and see. Hell, commentators and ex skaters talks about it all time. The canadian commentator, a woman, siad about Grishuk&Platov costumes in Nagano that they were a copy of T&D bolero, for example.
There are no scores for the costumes, but they do make an impression and are considered in a overall perfomance, or package if you like.
The British Ice Dance judge in Sarajevo designed the costumes for T&D. Judges do tell skaters which music to use and which not, among other things in order to help them. A costume can help with the body lines as well, it's not such a silly thing.

I don't know if Tarasova new something about it from the judges, I have no idea, but she is entitled to give her opinion on the dress. As I said, commentators do that all the time, so why not her? Is she passing her opinion/idea as a fact? I don't know, possibly yes. After all she is biased in this case, but if Christine Brennan, or any other journalist, ex-skater and commentator that Ive heard or read so far, can do it, than certainly Tarasova can. To feel outrageous about it, just because you don't like it, it's a bit hypocritical.

Having said that, I really don't think Kim lost because of her costume. On the other hand Adelina's SP dress was horrible.:disapp:

Actually, Adelina's SP dress was fine. A bit simple, but it was well-fitted and matched the essence of the music. Her LP dress, however, was abominable. It looked like a reject piece from Urban Outfitters that you wished would just go away as soon as you caught sight of it. Tacky, tacky, tacky (much like her LP overall)...maybe that was the point?
 
She didn't. These costumes are always polarizing and unless they are overly distracting, or especially elegant, I think they have no effect at all on the marks.

Exactly. I thought the LP dress was very ordinary, but it had no effect at all anyway. I loved her yellow dress in SP.


Actually, Adelina's SP dress was fine. A bit simple, but it was well-fitted and matched the essence of the music. Her LP dress, however, was abominable. It looked like a reject piece from Urban Outfitters that you wished would just go away as soon as you caught sight of it. Tacky, tacky, tacky (much like her LP overall)...maybe that was the point?

De gustibus. I thought the LP dress was better - although not among the best - maybe because I like the nude look, but I do think it was a bit too much for figure skating.
 
We have another analysis by a fellow forum member Blades of Passion. According to her/his analysis, Adelina's step sequence is lvl 3, while Yuna's is lvl 4.

Analyzing Sotnikova and Kim's footwork in the FS

Blades of Passion said:
As requested, I have written down all of the movements in Yu-Na Kim's LP footwork sequence:
..

She has 5 types of turns in both directions - Rocker, Bracket, Twizzle, Loop, Three
She had 5 types of steps in both directions - Toe hop, Toe step, Chasse, Mohawk, Choctaw
She has full body rotation covering at least 1/3 of the pattern in total for each rotational direction.
She most definitely has upper body movements for at least 1/3 of the pattern.
She has 3 different combinations of three difficult turns executed with a clear rhythm.

This footwork sequence is clearly Level 4.

Truth wins out. Don't forget about this as well -> Figure Skating Reference: Evaluating Step Sequences
 
Korean Olympic Committee, responding to Koreans' enormous amount of complaints, announces now in her homepage that they are considering making a petition to IOC for the unfair, biased, incorrect judgment.
 
I'm surprised this thread has gone over 200 pages. (That's not including all the other related threads on the Edge and the Sochi forums.) Personally, I feel kind of odd in feeling indifferent about this situation. I don't know why. I felt outrage over the judging in the first few days, then afterwards I couldn't care less. After a few days I stopped discussing or arguing over the results. I just didn't care anymore. Maybe because Yuna herself seems to have simply shrugged it off and quickly moved on.

Medals matter but ultimately there is more to figure skating than Olympic gold, even though that may be the ultimate prize in the sport. Yuna already has an OGM (an indisputable one). But she has more than that. I knew before Sochi that she had little to lose at the Olympics. And I feel the same now. In fact, with her two clean programs in Sochi she has in way won an intangible sort of 'gold' medal. Like with 2013 Worlds, she left no doubt over her talent, her grit or her accomplishments. Before her return, some people could brush off Vancouver as mere luck. But not after 2013 Worlds and Sochi.

She came back when she had no compelling reason to, having already won all the major titles. And what she accomplished during that return at Korean Nationals, 2013 Worlds and Sochi were utterly extraordinary in my view. Just thinking of her long break prior, how such few competitions she had to prepare for Worlds or Sochi, her foot injury, and then of course, her motivation given what she's already accomplished, I'm honestly amazed at how well she did in her comeback, and that it happened at all. If there's a gold medal for the ability to withstand pressure under competition, there aren't enough Russian Rubles in the world to take it away from Yuna. ;)
 
This is so ridiculous now. Lakernik Gusmeroli and or Obranova were all corrupt and making illegitimate levels along with 7 or 8 or even all 9 judges having wrong illegitimate corrupt goe . Proof please.
 
This is so ridiculous now. Lakernik Gusmeroli and or Obranova were all corrupt and making illegitimate levels along with 7 or 8 or even all 9 judges having wrong illegitimate corrupt goe . Proof please.

Given that the ISU is doing everything in its power to make judging as opaque as possible--including denying there is even a problem--proof will be very difficult to find. Which is exactly the paroblem. But the "results" speak for themselves.

But by all means continue with the fiction that everything is fine and dandy and watch as skating continues to increase cynicism in even its most die-hard fans while driving its audience further and further away.
 
Given that the ISU is doing everything in its power to make judging as opaque as possible--including denying there is even a problem--proof will be very difficult to find. Which is exactly the paroblem. But the "results" speak for themselves.

But by all means continue with the fiction that everything is fine and dandy and watch as skating continues to increase cynicism in even its most die-hard fans while driving its audience further and further away.

It's not about the scoring system is about corruption. Unless people are saying this was done all on the fly and spontaneously in sochi in 2014 there would absolutely have to be some electronic evidence.
 
It's not about the scoring system is about corruption. Unless people are saying this was done all on the fly and spontaneously in sochi in 2014 there would absolutely have to be some electronic evidence.

The scoring system has shown itself to be easily manipulated, thus ripe for corruption. It's the symptom of the larger problem. Corruption rots from the inside out. It has simply gotten to the point that the inner corruption is oozing out at the seams, despite the best efforts of the ISU to proclaim nothing is wrong. And meanwhile the sport can't even fill smaller-sized venues around the world, except in Japan. And after this Olympics, I wonder how many Japanese fans are going to say, why bother paying so much money to see corrupt competitions.

My goodness, if a corporation was run this way, how long do you think they would stay in business while hemorrhaging customers?

You don't even need to look at electronic evidence to see the rot. You tell me ONE other sport in the world that would allow judges with such blatant conflicts of interest to judge the most important competition in the world. You name ONE other sport that would allow a judge who was caught red-handed trying to fix the results of the most important competition in the world back on said judging panel. Half-empty arenas speak louder than any electronic evidence about the state of the sport.

Hell, maybe they can fill up those empty seats with speed skaters.
 
This is so ridiculous now. Lakernik Gusmeroli and or Obranova were all corrupt and making illegitimate levels along with 7 or 8 or even all 9 judges having wrong illegitimate corrupt goe . Proof please.

You find it somehow difficult to believe that Lakernik and Obranova, who are Russian, were not at all bribed/biased?

You find it somehow difficult to believe that two judges on the panel who have been PROVEN cheaters in the past, and are also Russian, were not at all bribed/biased?

What exactly are you trying to defend? What are you scared of? Your complete denial of a very possible truth shows either extremely poor rationality or extreme fear.
 
You find it somehow difficult to believe that Lakernik and Obranova, who are Russian, were not at all bribed/biased?

You find it somehow difficult to believe that two judges on the panel who have been PROVEN cheaters in the past, and are also Russian, were not at all bribed/biased?

What exactly are you trying to defend? What are you scared of? Your complete denial of a very possible truth shows either extremely poor rationality or extreme fear.
I find it difficult to believe that an ardent, relentless truth-seeker like you can't even get the freaking' last name right.

BARANOVA.

Not Obranova.
 
There are lots of things available on the net. That doesn't mean that this particular blogger saw it. To me, it is more likely that he saw one of the many mangled translations available and said, "Aha! Just as I thought! A big conspiracy and Mrs. Tarasova is all mixed up in it, along with the judges!"
Mathman, that's the thing. There is no evidence a mangled translation has been posted anywhere ahead of the correct one. The likeliest way for a non-Russian speaker to even LEARN that interview existed was to see the correct translation that has been posted on FSUniverse, a mainstream source FS information that many fans read. You can of course come up with a theory that the blogger has somehow learned of an interview in Russia and took it upon him/herself to translate it. That is possible but I find it less likely than the theory that someone ardently interested FS actually reads a mainstream FS source.
 
Even my 3-year old knows machines can't translate. But by all means, feel free to stick with the word salad your "translation softwares" spit out and justify the lies people tell to suit their agendas. Enjoy your sheepskin lutzes.

I am not smart as your 3-years old, so I can only use Google translate. Would you be so kind to translate the following sans sheepskin? :biggrin:
http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/dud/585322.html?ext=rms
I have only copied 1/3rd of the article, and bolded the part that is particular interest to this thread. As far as I can tell, Vasily Solovyov is a famous Russian commentator veteran with 15 years experience who is calling it quits after Sochi. There's a picture of him co-commentating with Tat in the article. He discussed the culture of peer pressure, Russia figure skating culture, and the Adelina's controversial PCS in Sochi.

Vasily Solovyov: "Telling the truth about the skaters can not. Now let others keep silent "

Vasily Solovyov fifteen years commented on "NTV-Plus" figure skating. After the Olympic Games in Sochi, he decided that this is more to do. Why - Solovyov explained in an extensive interview Sports.ru.

- You have officially announced that he was leaving the profession commentator. Why?

- It's not every second story. In Russia, a small market sports kommentatorstva. And I'm just a commentator, not a journalist. "NTV-Plus" - this is my family. There my mother worked there work friends of our family. Withdraw from the family to the Games in Sochi was impossible. When I was three years ago came to Mitya Chukovskii and said, "Mitya, I think about how to finally move into the sphere of filmmaking," he said: "You ofonarel, or what? To Sochi even do not want to hear. " Gradually, I became a producer, I get business - one another. And all the time I said to myself: "We must go, we must." While going, all resorbed itself. Golf - find people who comment on it or with me or for me. Figure skating - contract "NTV-Plus" with ISU collapsed, and the rights to the championship of Russia was the first time in 16 years sold RTR, not us.

I approached the Olympics almost a free man. Well, when I arrived in Sochi, everything was so good in the sense of the Olympics and so bad in the sense of what is happening in this figure skating that I affirmed its decision.

- What exactly was bad?

- I used to live with this. Tried to step back from this, but still sucked. Sat in the commentary booth - and someone has something somehow obliged. Sat down with this - then crossed the road to another. Sat down with the other - so mortally offended it. We did not speak for several months with Tatiana Tarasova, because I, you know, with the dancer Vazgen Azroyan commented some competitions.

- And they are enemies?

- What if he said something about the students or people close to them, or something else ... Right after that ether - call: "How could you? You should not have to comment on it! ". What do you mean - should or should not? I'll decide. Who you all are?

And others say: "Basil, when did you stop with Tatiana Anatolevnoj comment? You can see that it is pursuing only their own goals. " No, friends, it is much more objective than many of this world.

The most exciting thing in figure skating: scary - it's not about someone when you said bad; scary - it's when you anything about someone said. It is not even evaluated. Say Natalia Linichuk and Gennady Karponosov come up to you and say, "Basil, well you probably forbid us to talk about? Or you do not love us so? You never, COG-da of us do not say anything. " Well, as it "never"?

Plus, in this world you feel is a stranger. Some things you can say much more correct those involved in figure skating life, but for them you're still a stranger: because he never skated. We somehow communicated in this regard with Tarasova. One of the best technicians in our figure skating - Peter is sick. He had engaged in dances, not on the ice, and just dancing. Then he became a choreographer, began working with the skaters began to learn the rules, then just changed the system and he learned it so thoroughly that all the people of skating with him were advised how to put these or other programs.

Tarasova me at the time to meet him and said: "Peter knows more than anyone else." But it was when there was an urgent need. After a while, when all have learned these rules, elements and components, they had a different main theme: how can a man who has never skated, we point out something here?

Well, then - when you realize that things happening for obvious forgery, which no one can intelligently expand any air or on the internet, you know: say nothing about it at all costs.

- Forgery - what's that?

- When the referee starts the game. For me is still a mystery how the International Skating Union manipulates these estimates. Only two options. Or people who sit near the rim - nine judges and three technical specialist - advance say put. Or all that they imply, is irrelevant - and a man sitting at a computer and mouse moves these estimates. Either that, or so. Because some things that happen in figure skating, I just do not believe.

- Like what?

- The most elementary thing - evaluation Adelina Sotnikova in Sochi. I repeat: Sotnikov, Vodorezova Tarasova and clean here. They do their job, they figachat his person that he was the best. If human talent allows - as, for example, Yagudin in Salt Lake City - he becomes the top of the best. But when a man is not as gifted as Yagudin, he still gives all of himself out on the peak shape, and then the judges begin to compare it with others.

Do Sotnikova the past two months for assessment components increased by 14 points. For those who are not very topic: estimates for the components more or less forever. But since the last skater and performances before the Games in Sochi, they increased by 14 points. No one can explain - why.

If it was in Turin - gold with skating Carolina Kostner would take. If in Korea - even issues have arisen that Yu-Na Kim became the champion. And I look at these 14 points and trying to understand: it is all the judges suddenly become so good or sits a man who moves all this?

- So and how it is calculated? Will wear black caviar and Versace?

- As far as I understand, at ISU and our federation, and with any other federation relationships are built so that it is somehow regulated. Perhaps if the judges are not loyal - they no longer get the job. They do not get her millions, but for them it is constant replenishment.

I repeat: I was ready to put up with these. But I'm tired. Okay, there was a story only estimates. But after athlete skated immediately begins the story with peaching - someone wants to send. Now we had two camps: the environment and Sotnikova Lipnitskaya. Though it is said that "we are a team," there megaslozhnye relationship. Just look at the two coaches, to make it clear: this is a war. Without slaughter and scuffle, but the real war - people are fighting for very important things. Once one Squeezer - to suit you immediately from the opposite camp, and tell all her mistakes: "But note how wrong axel as it does not slide here, and here she has substituted a second leg."


***
 
I am not smart as your 3-years old, so I can only use Google translate. Would you be so kind to translate the following sans sheepskin? :biggrin:
http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/dud/585322.html?ext=rms
I have only copied 1/3rd of the article, and bolded the part that is particular interest to this thread. As far as I can tell, Vasily Solovyov is a famous Russian commentator veteran with 15 years experience who is calling it quits after Sochi. There's a picture of him co-commentating with Tat in the article. He discussed the culture of peer pressure, Russia figure skating culture, and the Adelina's controversial PCS in Sochi.
Nice article; happy to translate, will have to wait till the weekend.
 
Mathman, that's the thing. There is no evidence a mangled translation has been posted anywhere ahead of the correct one. The likeliest way for a non-Russian speaker to even LEARN that interview existed was to see the correct translation that has been posted on FSUniverse, a mainstream source FS information that many fans read. You can of course come up with a theory that the blogger has somehow learned of an interview in Russia and took it upon him/herself to translate it. That is possible but I find it less likely than the theory that someone ardently interested FS actually reads a mainstream FS source.

Per the link you originally posted, this article was posted in the subscription-only part of FSUniverse which not as many fans read. It is not open to the public or easily accessible.

Russian-language articles get posted on Twitter and mention the skater's name in English. It is perfectly feasible that someone found the article there without the FSU translation attached.
 
Korean Olympic Committee, responding to Koreans' enormous amount of complaints, announces now in her homepage that they are considering making a petition to IOC for the unfair, biased, incorrect judgment.

I think they've already done that. Source please?
 
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