Looking back on the careers of Yu Na Kim and Michelle Kwan

[bara1968]

Now that KSU filed the official complaint to ISU along with IOC, will Yuna be the greatest, somehow miraculously, if ISU decides to award her OGM?

It seems that OP's strange logic to rip off Yuna from the list of one of the greatest ever along with Kwan, solely based on the "result",only applies to Yuna in torted way.

Since this topic has been discussed many, many times, I would not bother to recall Yuna's magnificent, second to none competitive record from her era.

For me, Yuna-like skater - floating across the ice with enormous speed and power, jumping with great technique and precision, developing her own effortless style -combining her technique with great musicality, having the nerve of steel and most importantly, building her career on her own (with the weakest possible federation providing zero support on her career) - is truly unprecedented and she is in the league of her own.

You know what? I got to respect her even more after Sochi fiasco, after witnessing her putting clean and gorgeous performance knowing that she might not score better than Sot. She proved that she has true champion in her heart, and whether you agree or not, she will get more respect via Sochi result rather than ripped off from the list of the greatest of all time as you do now. Time will tell. Sochi will not taint her name but shine it more.

 

[Mathman]

So you're saying Michelle > Putin?

Had a clean Michelle Kwan been there instead there would be nothing Putin could do.

I heard the U.S. State Department is planning to send Michelle to Ukraine.

 

[Olympia]

Michelle lost to another great skater. Yu Na Kim skated cleanly and STILL lost to a mediocre second rate skater. Big difference. Michelle Kwan in a million years wouldnt ever skate cleanly and lose to a skater like Sotnikova.

PTFan, you know that I'm a primo Michelle fan. She possibly tops my entire Forever List because of the magical way in which she combines meticulous technique, consistency, coolness under pressure, and extraordinary emotional connection to the music. But I'd never use her career achievements to make YuNa look inferior. For one thing, measuring quantitatively loses the strengths of both skaters. YuNa is also artistic, startlingly consistent, cool under pressure, and technically superior (her triple-triples have an excellence almost unmatched by any other woman ever). And then there's Mao, who's also compelling to watch. And Janet Lynn. Merely counting medals doesn't take all this into account. Maybe I'm just not into the competitive element of skating, because too much of it is in the hands of judges who might have an agenda? I don't know. But my tendency is to add great skaters to a list, not try to weed them out. After all, in the whole history of skating, there are only a relatively small number of true immortals in each discipline, and I think that both Michelle and YuNa belong on that tiny little list.

 

[Jewels]

Yuna only competed 5 worlds, she win 2 title.
Yuna only competed 5 Grand Prix, she win 4 title.
Yuna only competed 1 four continents, she win 1 title.
So, I think it is really doesn't matter how many title Michelle has, or Mao has.
Also, ironically, Yuna has more "title" compare to competition she entered.
Everyone have a different opinion, there is no right and wrong...

I agree Michelle is a skater from a different era, who was Yuna's role model. We can't really compare them, and both Yuna and Mao are the best skaters in their era, and I wouldn't say one is whole lot better than the other, and IMO they both have their strong and weak points. So what does this thread starter want to say? That Yuna lacks all artistry, jumping, spiral, spin techniques and that everyone should acknowledge Yuna is not a great skater? :sarcasm:

 

[Rubirosa]

Michelle lost to another great skater. Yu Na Kim skated cleanly and STILL lost to a mediocre second rate skater. Big difference. Michelle Kwan in a million years wouldnt ever skate cleanly and lose to a skater like Sotnikova.

OP opened this thread to bash Sotnikova once again and praise Yuna that she should have won in Sochi. That is why this thread is not closed.

 

[winky97]

I agree Michelle is a skater from a different era, who was Yuna's role model. We can't really compare them, and both Yuna and Mao are the best skaters in their era, and I wouldn't say one is whole lot better than the other, and IMO they both have their strong and weak points. So what does this thread starter want to say? That Yuna lacks all artistry, jumping, spiral, spin techniques and that everyone should acknowledge Yuna is not a great skater? :sarcasm:

I'm with you. Personally, I love them both and see no reason to compare them.

 

[arcticwolf]

PTFan, you know that I'm a primo Michelle fan. She possibly tops my entire Forever List because of the magical way in which she combines meticulous technique, consistency, coolness under pressure, and extraordinary emotional connection to the music. But I'd never use her career achievements to make YuNa look inferior. For one thing, measuring quantitatively loses the strengths of both skaters. YuNa is also artistic, startlingly consistent, cool under pressure, and technically superior (her triple-triples have an excellence almost unmatched by any other woman ever). And then there's Mao, who's also compelling to watch. And Janet Lynn. Merely counting medals doesn't take all this into account. Maybe I'm just not into the competitive element of skating, because too much of it is in the hands of judges who might have an agenda? I don't know. But my tendency is to add great skaters to a list, not try to weed them out. After all, in the whole history of skating, there are only a relatively small number of true immortals in each discipline, and I think that both Michelle and YuNa belong on that tiny little list.

Very well said

 

[OS]

Pangdongfan is what we call a 'spoon' in England. Unfortunately he seems to be addicted to the brown stuff this particular weekend.

Pangdongfan/JudgeJudy, I truly hope you manage to get given some shares/dividends on Golden Skate and FSU (with your many aliases). You truly deserve it! At least 1/5th of the figure skating discussion wouldn't happen without you. Always entertaining though.

As for the title of this thread, of course they are not in the same league. A league in sport implies everyone has the same ground to compete freely and fairly, yet Figure Skating is inherently an unfair sport due its very nature of determining the results that relies on 100% human judging. Actually human judging is not the problem, but more to do with the fact these judgement are the usual derivatives from the power, culture, influence and the governance of the sport with their convoluted old worlds politics, ie/ Keep it in the family since they bloomin' paid $$$ for it. The only way human judging can work fairly is to actually implement a system where the panel of judges do not have any conflict of interest and be held accountable personally for their quality of judging. This is not possible under the way this sport has always been run under the same regime, lead by a president who did all he can to stay in power for 20 years! Crazy!

Michelle skated for the all mighty USA and with it she inherited the legacy of Janet Lynn, Fleming, Hamill, Boitano and importantly the richest contributor to ISU funding during the 6.0 era. For that she is simply a league of her own in this sport. The most important skater under 6.0, not just to do with skating. Ironically not awarded her the OGM probably kept ISU in good business for a few more years. Japanese skaters probably are just as important financially to ISU more than other nations under the COP era, along with US. (Anyone know which nation pays the most for their TV broadcasting rights? Rank?)

The ISU 'world' championship has always been bit of a joke to me because of its name by definition is simply false. It might as well be renamed 4 nations (+ guests to make up the odd numbers.) How will the era after Sochi fair? It depends on whether Mao stays in this sport, and how Hanyu can establish himself fully to cover the same fan base, or attract new ones.

Yuna basically had nothing and had to build everything from ground up. Of course it helps she is inspired by the best(s), and with a healthier attitude to Gold does not mean everything. Had Yuna Kim skated for any of the power 4, she will very likely to have had a very different career/path. Less injuries, better training, better and happier experience with a healthier and well balance personal life mixed with skating and not having to be away from friends and family for so long. Michelle will not have had the same career had she skated for China during her time... likely the same for Patrick Chan, although I suspect the rising of China may have a bigger impact on his sponsorship deals. All of these factors can greatly impact on the development of a skater, their level playing field in which they must compete on, and how they feel towards skating, direction of skating, and their personal invested interests etc.

 

[Meoima]

I really don't understand the purpose of this thread. Both of them are great on their own way. They are even from different eras. So why comparing them? Frankly, I think Yuna's jumps are better than Kwan.

 

[Olympia]

Os168, you bring up a crucial point. Michelle would have been a great skater no matter what her country, but certainly the fact that she skated for the U.S. eased her path in many ways. Likewise, YuNa had a particularly hard road. She was and is the only world-level skater from Korea. (So Youn Park may change that.) She didn't have a powerful federation behind her, and her own country didn't even help her out at first. Once it was obvious that she was a contender for gold at Vancouver, Koreans piled on the pressure, so that it became plain that nothing but gold would do. The expectations heaped on YuNa were just about unique in the history of skating, making her life was unusually stressful even for a skater in an Olympic year. So already, even without considering the skating talents of these two champions, there is no comparison possible between them.

 

[jkun]

I really don't understand the purpose of this thread. Both of them are great on their own way. They are even from different eras. So why comparing them? Frankly, I think Yuna's jumps are better than Kwan.

I don't think ANYONE would argue that Kwan jumps better than Yuna. But skating isn't just about jumping. They are both great in their own way. I don't really understand why this thread was put on the direction that it was. They are both great skaters who aren't even from the same time period. Why can't we just enjoy both?

 

[Olympia]

I don't think ANYONE would argue that Kwan jumps better than Yuna. But skating isn't just about jumping. They are both great in their own way. I don't really understand why this thread was put on the direction that it was. They are both great skaters who aren't even from the same time period. Why can't we just enjoy both?

Fortunately, many of us do enjoy both. And clearly they enjoy each other's skating. That's the way it should be, I agree.

 

[NQShamrock]

Pangdongfan is what we call a 'spoon' in England. Unfortunately he seems to be addicted to the brown stuff this particular weekend.

Pangdongfan/JudgeJudy, I truly hope you manage to get given some shares/dividends on Golden Skate and FSU (with your many aliases). You truly deserve it! At least 1/5th of the figure skating discussion wouldn't happen without you. Always entertaining though.

As for the title of this thread, of course they are not in the same league. A league in sport implies everyone has the same ground to compete freely and fairly, yet Figure Skating is inherently an unfair sport due its very nature of determining the results that relies on 100% human judging. Actually human judging is not the problem, but more to do with the fact these judgement are the usual derivatives from the power, culture, influence and the governance of the sport with their convoluted old worlds politics, ie/ Keep it in the family since they bloomin' paid $$$ for it. The only way human judging can work fairly is to actually implement a system where the panel of judges do not have any conflict of interest and be held accountable personally for their quality of judging. This is not possible under the way this sport has always been run under the same regime, lead by a president who did all he can to stay in power for 20 years! Crazy!

Michelle skated for the all mighty USA and with it she inherited the legacy of Janet Lynn, Fleming, Hamill, Boitano and importantly the richest contributor to ISU funding during the 6.0 era. For that she is simply a league of her own in this sport. The most important skater under 6.0, not just to do with skating. Ironically not awarded her the OGM probably kept ISU in good business for a few more years. Japanese skaters probably are just as important financially to ISU more than other nations under the COP era, along with US. (Anyone know which nation pays the most for their TV broadcasting rights? Rank?)

The ISU 'world' championship has always been bit of a joke to me because of its name by definition is simply false. It might as well be renamed 4 nations (+ guests to make up the odd numbers.) How will the era after Sochi fair? It depends on whether Mao stays in this sport, and how Hanyu can establish him fully to cover the same fan base, or attract new ones.

Yuna basically had nothing and no one to help her, and had to build everything from ground up. Of course it helps she is inspired by the bests, and with it a healthier attitude to what Gold means ie/ not everything. Had Yuna Kim skated for any of the power 4, she will very likely to have had a very different career/path. Less injuries, better training, better and happier experience with a healthier and well balance personal life mixed with skating and not having to be away from friends and family for so long. Michelle will not have had the same career had she skated for China during her time... likely the same for Patrick Chan, although I suspect the rising of China may have a bigger impact on his sponsorship deals. All of these factors can greatly impact on the development of a skater, their level playing field in which they must compete on, and how they feel towards skating, direction of skating, and their personal invested interests etc.

I totally agree with you. We can't not compare two skaters who come from different era, countries, situations...
And if Michell had skated for any unknown Asia countries not US, she might not have achieved so much like Yuna.
In my opinion this topic makes no sense and is obviously silly.

 

[cooper]

goodness..

let me put this way.. i became a fan of figure skating because of michelle kwan.. figure skating is not even popular here in the philippines.. but during her era figure skating was featured in espn asia here.. when yuna came along it made me continue to be a fan of this sport.. and it will not change...

different eras.. different rules.. different skaters they competed against with.. just different..

 

[Mathman]

Welcome, NQShamrock. Thanks for posting! :yes:

 

[bellamie]

I can't understand why you made such a idiot thread. I was shocked at judgements of Sochi Olympic and was hurt in my mind deeply. This scar would not be healed forever. Figureskating is not a beautiful sport any more, which I have loved since I was a child. Running IJS for yeas, heads of ISU seems to have got accustomed to the way how Judgement make results of deal. Also Forum have used a space for making favorable opinions to skaters who someone support. I'm so tired of this situation. You are making my scar be worse. Are you a real figureskating fan?

I have thought that artistry many users talk to is so insular and American-centered while I have seen this forum for several years. Michelle and Yuna seem to have different skating style for me. Michelle's skating is strong and soft, and Yuna's skating is fast and floating. So two skaters make different images respectively. I watched confidence in Michelle's skating. On the other hand Yuna present works than herself in her skating. In Yuna's recent gala program, I watched an angel. I can't forget that feeling. I think that figureskating fans don't have a right they can denigrate great skaters

 

[Nadya]

When I saw the title of this thread, I was thinking now folks here are getting the techniques of journalists of creating sensational headlines really well--To me, this title is a little joke, since in my mind Yuna is clearer a better athlete than Kwan. Yuna completed far fewer seasons than Kwan did, and she always had 3-3. Kwan's fame benefited greatly from the longevity of her career.

You say this like her longevity just fell on her out of blue sky, and it had nothing to do with Kwan the athlete.

 

[pointyourtoe]

I refuse to compare the two at all anymore.

Kwan is the Kween of 6.0 and Yuna is the Queen of IJS. Period.

 

[sk8in]

Let's be real, if Michelle Kwan competed in this year's Worlds---even at her peak---she'd be lucky to make it in the top 5. Kwan is an icon. She had unique presence and form on the ice, but she wasn't an incredible technician, and in that respect the ISU's standards are higher than the 6.0 system's.

 

[TripleToe]

They're both great! the only difference between them is... Yuna is an Olympic champion, Michelle is not.