TASS reports ISU technical committee intends to simplify the skaters' programs

[NaVi]

The source said that the ISU technical committee intends to simplify the skaters' programs​

© Sergey Bobylev/ TASS

In particular, in the free program in single skating it is proposed to reduce the number of compulsory jumps from seven to six​

MOSCOW, January 25. /TASS/. The Technical Committee of the International Skating Union (ISU) is discussing proposals to simplify the rules in singles and pairs skating for the organization's next congress. A source told TASS.

In particular, proposals were made to reduce the number of compulsory jumps in the free program in single skating from seven to six, to allow the repetition of one jump three times - previously this was possible no more than two times, the number of cascades and combinations is proposed to be reduced from three to two, one rotation is replaced by choreographic rotation. In pairs, it is proposed to reduce the number of lifts with levels from three to two, and eliminate the solo jump.

The 59th ISU Congress will take place June 10-14 in Las Vegas.

https://tass.ru/sport/19815547 https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...hdaet-idei-po-uproshheniyu-programm-figu.html

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On the surface level and maybe in reality, these changes seem to be aimed at making things easier for those with technical weaknesses and thus leveling the playing field a bit. It's kind of the same with the recently adopted rules on jump sequences. I think these kind of changes can help lengthen some skating careers. Reducing the jumps in the FS and/or increasing the number of jumps that can be repeated would reduce the impact of edge calling in competitions which would be plus IMO. But part of me wishes that time was just added to the FS instead of reducing jump passes.

The reason I'm somewhat OK with lowering the number of jump passes from 7 to 6 is that it won't be too long until a 3A or quad is required to even medal on the women's JGP(TBH, will happen before seniors). Unless there's competitions made specifically for those without a quad or 3A, it no longer makes a lot of sense to uphold the 7 triple FS as a kind of summit to strive for in women's skating. [edit] Unsure why I said that as 7 triples is still easily possible with 6 jump passes and 2 combinations[/edit]

I would like to see an audible(american football term) jump pass. If someone has a fall they would be able to reclaim a bit of time later in the program to do another jump pass.

After reducing the number of jump passes, I'm unsure about what to do with jump combinations. Instead of counting "combinations" it could be better to count the number of total successor jumps after the first jumps. WIth 4 successor jumps, skaters could do four 2-jump combinations, or one 3-jump combination and two 2-jump combinations, or two 3-jump combinations, or even one 4-jump combination and one 2-jump combination, or even one 5-jump combination.

I'm mostly opposed to allowing 3 of the same jump type to be repeated. It could allow for some new and interesting combinations, but overall it would be annoying and it would be better to create a jump competition if you want to see those combinations. If figure skating has multiple rulesets that skaters competed under then it would be fine under one ruleset, but if there's only One True Ruleset for all competitions then It's not a good idea. (I'm in favor of there being multiple rulesets and I'd get there by replacing the Grand Prix with multiple tournaments).I find it odd that this is even up for discussion considering last time I think there was a vote to not let the same quad type be repeated.

A choreographic spin is a fine idea as the best way to improve spins for the audience in figure skating is to just let them embody the choreography. TBH, I hope all spins in the FS become choreographic spins and then have more technical spins in the SP. A random idea that came to my mind is to have a "speed pose" spin that's mostly judged on speed and centering, then a level spin, and then a choreographic spin.

For pairs, I'm strongly in favor of reducing the number of required overhead lifts from 3 to 2. While I don't think it would make a huge impact, I do think it would make pairs a bit safer and accessible. It's something I just mentioned yesterday in another thread. I'm ok with some couples doing 3 overhead lifts as long as others could do something else instead.

I'm not entirely sure what "eliminate the solo jump" means... if it means one of the side-by-side jump passes in the FS or the one in the SP... but I'm strongly, strongly opposed either way. If anything, they should be adding jump passes to pairs.

This goes against the whole philosophy of IJS, but I'd like it to be possible for elements in pairs programs to be substitutable with entirely different kinds of elements. Does every pairs FS need all of the twist lift, death spiral, 3 overhead lifts, etc but no step sequence?

 

[4everchan]

for singles : i am fine with it except for the repetition X3 of the same jump...
for pairs : NO

BTW... I am not sure why this thread isn't in The Edge ?

 

[el henry]

Skaters themselves have been complaining about the increase to seven jumps, regardless of their "ability" to do the jumps.

Just a wonky note: an audible does not change a later play, it changes that actual play. It is the equivalent of a skater changing a jump in the program *before* they jump because they would zayak (Sammy Skater did a 3T rather than the planned 4T as the first jump. Sammy Skater needs to change one of the later scheduled 3T on the fly so he doesn't have too many)

I would be opposed to giving more time for missed jumps, unless we give more time for all the other missed technical elements.

Very interesting proposals otherwise. I don't have an opinion on women's skating, as I don't watch it.

 

[Cutting the ice]

I am assuming the elimination in the FS of the single jump in pairs would leave just one side-by-side jump and that must be a combination. Hmmm. Certainly the s-b-s jumps separate the chaff from the wheat (as they say) and there would be less need to recruit singles skaters with good jumping skills to the sport. Is that a positive? With the elimination of the single jump along with 2 lifts with levels versus 3, I wonder what will be added? More choreography and emphasis on skating as a pair, perhaps more emphasis on skating skills? That would be nice. But the devil is in the details of course.

 

[Skating91]

To make the sport safer for the best female athletes it would make more sense to just ban ultra-c for females rather than this kind of degradation that makes weak jumpers of triples and combos somewhat competitive. It is total regression of the sport.

If a skater cannot handle 7 jumping elements, then just simplify the content.

I'm a big Valieva fan, and this will benefit her enormously, but I'm completely against it.

 

[skatingguy]

Skaters themselves have been complaining about the increase to seven jumps, regardless of their "ability" to do the jumps.

Decrease to seven jumps - it used to be eight when the programs were 4:30.

 

[el henry]

Decrease to seven jumps - it used to be eight when the programs were 4:30.

Thank you, I should have been clearer: the combination of seven jumps and the decrease in time.

 

[icewhite]

I'm in favour of reducing the number of jumps, just so that there is more time for choreography.
Not in favour at all of allowing to have the same jump 3 times.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Also, before people start freaking out, keep in mind that these are just possible proposals that will be voted on by the ISU Congress. Each time there are over 200 proposals, most of which don't pass.

 

[Couch Expert]

Lol, they are doing everything that pairs and women skating in seniors wouldn't look as miserable as it is now without Russians. Since free skate not riddled with mistakes there is so rare nowadays that it damages ISU reputation as organization of highest level athletes. I am not surprised though - with raising the senior age - technical degradation was one of expected consequences. That one reason - and other is more easily controlled and reputational judging where PCS would get much more weight. And it would be easier to appoint medals and places for respectable favorites before competition even begin. Enjoy your "ice dance" disciplines, folks

 

[thatdarncat]

Not in favour, this is supposed to be a sport, as a casual watcher, with limited knowledge the jumps are the one thing I understand and its obvious when it goes wrong and affects the programme, unlike with Ice Dance which as a casual observer I struggle to pick the teams a part or understand the judging where as in singles and pairs its easier to tell which skaters are better by the difficulty and range of jumps they perform. Sports are supposed to be supper competitive and the best should be at the top.

 

[el henry]

Not in favour, this is supposed to be a sport, as a casual watcher, with limited knowledge the jumps are the one thing I understand and its obvious when it goes wrong and affects the programme, unlike with Ice Dance which as a casual observer I struggle to pick the teams a part or understand the judging where as in singles and pairs its easier to tell which skaters are better by the difficulty and range of jumps they perform. Sports are supposed to be supper competitive and the best should be at the top.

The skaters with the best blade to ice skills, the best spins requiring incredible athletic talent to hold and maintain that position, the deepest edges, the best steps and yes, best jumps and best choreo and best performance are all part of the super competitive sport of figure skating and all part of the athletic component, and the best at all of these should be on top.

I was never a skater and had to learn (imperfectly it's true) about all of these elements. It's what makes the sport far more interesting than a simple "ice jumping" contest.

Decreasing by a measly one still leaves plenty of jumps.

 

[DancingCactus]

I'm all for it if they add some variety instead. A choreographic jump would do nicely. It would be great if they could also reform spin levels.

Also, if I hear "regression", "degradation" or "females" one more time....

 

[Crowdproud]

As a spectator, if it were up to me, I would go with the following:

1. Eliminate combo jumps / sequences in pairs. It's the least 'pair' element and the success rate is generally low. Replace with a choreo-assisted jump or similar, to allow for more creativity in pairs.

2. Eliminate one jump / jump pass in juniors' FS, and have the children compete both the choreography sequence and the step sequence instead. Much more spectator friendly, vs seeing the skaters splat on the ice; safer for the kids; and better for athlete development.

3. Agree with replacing one levelled spin with a choreo spin in singles, akin to having another choreo element in the program. Would allow for more creativity and variety. Have you noticed the choreo sequences are almost always included in replays? That's because they are often the most creative and unique elements in the program.

4. Okay with eliminating one lift in pairs; would be probably be safer for athletes, and they often look too similar anyway. Three in the FS is an overkill. If another element is needed to replace the lift, add a 3rd throw -- these are always exciting to watch, and hopefully do not cause as much wear & tear as a lift.</delete> Edited to remove the suggestion for the third throw.

5. Number of jump passes in singles' FS is probably okay -- no change is needed (except in juniors). Not in favor of three of the same jumps being allowed in a program; variety is always best.

 

[Diana Delafield]

As a spectator, if it were up to me, I would go with the following:

1. Eliminate combo jumps / sequences in pairs. It's the least 'pair' element and the success rate is generally low. Replace with a choreo-assisted jump or similar, to allow for more creativity in pairs.

Nobody seems to do what we called "jumps to" in my era in pairs competition, like Barb Underhill's Leap of Faith, or fish dives. The reverse of throws. That could replace the jump sequences, which I'm very glad we didn't have to do in my day.

4. Okay with eliminating one lift in pairs; would be probably be safer for athletes, and they often look too similar anyway. Three in the FS is an overkill.

Instead of her contorting herself into the same pretzel in every lift, there could be one lift with changes of position, and then perhaps the other two could be single-position but have requirements like a different air angle (one horizontal platter/tabletop/star/hip Axel and one upright), or one facing in opposite directions (platter) and one in the same direction (lasso) with no changes of aerial position allowed but *maybe* variations in exits although I'm getting awfully tired of seeing every lift come down in a cartwheel. But maybe that's too simplistic. Or maybe I'm just grumpy because my own pairs skills are gradually deteriorating with age and we're having to go back to basics .

 

[Andrina]

Finally.

Figure skating is about creating choreographical figures on the ice. And skating. Jumps are just a way to get an extra point but not the cornerstone of this sport and by no means should be considered significantly higher than a spin or a step sequence.

It makes by eyes bleed when I see those "jumpers" just hobbling from one jump to another against the music and any sense of aesthetic and getting points for it.

 

[gkelly]

4. Okay with eliminating one lift in pairs; would be probably be safer for athletes, and they often look too similar anyway. Three in the FS is an overkill. If another element is needed to replace the lift, add a 3rd throw -- these are always exciting to watch, and hopefully do not cause as much wear & tear as a lift.

5. Number of jump passes in singles' FS is probably okay -- no change is needed (except in juniors). Not in favor of three of the same jumps being allowed in a program; variety is always best.

Different lifts are comparable to different jumps -- what makes them different (as far as naming goes) is the takeoff.
Jumps look even more similar in the air than lifts do.

Lifts are probably harder on the man's body, and throws on the woman's.

 

[4everchan]

I am not sure I need 3 throws in the pairs LP... because some of these falls are tough to watch and since the flip and the lutz count as the same, it wouldn't give many options to skaters... Some really don't like the toe assisted throw jumps and perform only the edge jumps throw... So perhaps they should require one of each... it may bring back the throw 3T which is nice to watch but never used almost.

I like the 3 lifts and I do find them different enough, but I agree : one of them could be without the crazy level bullets with change of position... A simpler, cleaner lift may be fun to watch too and fun to do for the pairs. It could be that one of the list, especially from group 3 or 4 but perhaps eve one of the axel lifts, receives a CHOR lift BV and more freedome is given. That could change every year too. The pairs LP is notoriously known to be too packed with stuff so I can see why they would want to remove things from it... BUT : if they removed the single jump... all we will see will be 3T or 3S +2A+2A sequences... the solo jump allows some differentiation between teams... and some teams are able to do a harder jump there which they may not want to do if they don't have to take that risk and if it means a risk of no combo. I am going to suggest something the ISU may not like... add 15 seconds to the pairs LP and let them skate some more Choreo... no need to remove an element here, but adding time may solve the issues.

 

[Cutting the ice]

Watching the Underhill / Martini video when they won worlds in 1984, what struck me was the synchronicity and closeness of their skating - a bit of ice dancing (although simple by today's standards). That is almost lost from pairs programmes today, except for maybe 20 seconds and often only in the top pairs. I get why, no time and little reward - but perhaps removal of two elements from pairs, could allow for more of this. Not sure what it would be called or how it would be rewarded. Choreo step sequence like in dance - rather than just step sequence (which can be painful to watch when little synchronicity)? Just thoughts - not an expert, just a fan. But - although this proposal to the ISU may go nowhere - there is opportunity here for making the sport more pleasing to watch with less rushing from element to element without emotion (and with poor skating skills).

I do think Pairs is getting better - hopefully moving away from the little girl/woman being thrown about by the big man - to partners performing difficult elements together in a skilled and beautiful way, but there is still room for improvement.

 

[ladyjane]

I do think Pairs is getting better - hopefully moving away from the little girl/woman being thrown about by the big man - to partners performing difficult elements together in a skilled and beautiful way, but there is still room for improvement.

I do agree with this. This is what I am hoping for as well! I don't care how it is achieved whether by this specific proposal or otherwise.