Last post on the matter.
The tradeoff of the power takeoff is that if you are a slower rotator you run the risk of UR. The extra height is used to give more time to rotate the jump. Quads rarely use that technique because it slows down the time it takes to pull into the jump for most skaters. It's all about efficiency. Yuna can do this cause she rotates slower (or rather, has a slower snap into her rotations), which demands more airtime i.e. more pop on the take off. She needs the extra time to get the jump collected, cause you kind of have to get to a certain position in the jump and in the air before you can snap them, otherwise you risk the jump going off kilter/thrown off its axis which is very dangerous and an inefficient way to rotate them.
Still, that technique doesn't allow a skater to UR the landing and get away with it. Many elite skaters who tried it would like to disagree with the stuff being peddled in this thread, since they've done what is said to be "okay" here and suffered the calls for it.
In Yuna's case it's not necessarily the rotating speed itself, but the fact that she took a bit long[er] to get into her rotations (longer than normal and her jumps are often already walking the line without that to mess with them). You can see the delay in real-time. When that happens, it almost always has an impact on the jumps full rotation because the skater can't magically rotate at a higher optimal speed than they usually do, she is snapping into her optimal rotations LATER (meaning that extra time the take-off gave her was eaten up to some extent by her taking longer to get to her optimal rotation speed in-air), and with the way she lands her jumps (usually with a hook, albeit an "acceptable" hook) normally it was already bound to cause an issue on that landing. That isn't necessarily surprising, since the jump was in the back half of the program and she was likely tiring at that point. She was clearly drained at the end of the performance and didn't look as energetic as usual in Sochi.
The jump landed short and that's pretty much that. The video available is just too good to try to refute it, which is why others have resorted to trying to say her use of a power take-off gives her the right to UR the jump and not get called on it, which is patently false as many men's skaters (and a few other women) would like their points back if that was the case. Lol.
I'm willing to bet $500 on the rotation debate between the two jumps. They are very similar in degree of UR. I'd settle for a pair of MK Phantoms, though, if you prefer. I have both programs on my PC and have seen both landings at quarter speed. The degree of UR on the Toe Loop back half and Yuna's second Lutz is pretty much the same - that's the only reason why some people (like myself) took exception to the lopsided way in which that jump was attacked, compared to Yuna's obvious UR. However, I'm flabbergasted that I get attacked for being "biased" while people are breaking their fingers trying to find an acceptable explanation (none exists) to excuse the UR on that Lutz, which was visible in real-time, while complaining that an almost identical UR from another skater was not called as well.
The judges had enough chances to ding Yuna Kim in that FS, to the point that a case can be made for her finishing in 3rd place. If they were out to get her that badly, they'd have done it, and it would have been 100% defendable.
The problem with Kexin's situation is that Murakami followed her and got away with a number of URs. Reputation matters. A number of people noticed it and weren't shy about it. This "problem" is bigger than Adelina and Yuna, or Mao, or Kostner, or Wagner, or whatever other "top" skater someone wants to throw in. If Kexin URs, the judges won't hesitate to murder her, but the same panel of judges were content with letting a slew of more reputable skaters UR without a deduction (some were called but the GOEs were limited (sometimes negative), but Sotnikova and Yuna got too much GOE for those jumps, both of them).
Adelina's other jumps aren't up for debate because she lands most of them almost straight backwards. There isn't anything to review. The 2Lo was over rotated almost half a revolution. It wasn't two footed (the take-off was clean, just off-axis), so I'm not sure where that came from. She stepped out of it. If she had rotated another quarter rotation she ran the risk of the technical panel calling it a triple and eliminating the entire jump pass. That would have given Kim the win as she would have lost over 8 points on that jump pass in that situation. Also, If Kim had done a +2 GOE Triple Loop in her program, she could have won the title outright.
We discussed Yuna
other [allegedly UR] jumps up thread. Refer to those posts. There is video available, as well. As for your other technical question regarding the explanation of the entrances that I gave upthread, all that information is upthread and I'm not really interested in entertaining speculation, guessing, or "winging it" of any sorts. There is no full blade jumping in that video.
I thought we went over this earlier in the thread - how the skate reacts with the ice on a jump take-off. What you're seeing is a figment of your imagination. It does not exist, so stop perpetuating it. Saying it 1,000x won't make it any less false than it is. No one jumps like that, except maybe newbies doing half-jumps or small singles with no speed or power. I don't care what crafty faux screen caps you come up with, look at a jump take-off in motion and you'll clearly see no one is jumping off the rocker of their skate the way you imply.
In no situation is it proper to UR more than 1/4 turn on the landing and call it a clean jump (regardless of who is skating, and in my mind the rules apply equally to EVERYONE - they both should have gotten a UR and GOE deductions for the errors). It does not matter if you use more or less pivot on the take-off. More women than men use the full pivot, but even men who typically jump the way Yuna does [with a lower amount of pivot in the skate on take-off] will get a UR if they land over a quarter under. The only precedent for that being ignored is: A.) She's Yuna Kim, and B.) The judges ignored Sotnikova's, so at least ignoring Kim's made it a little more fair for her from a TES point of view. If both were deducted, Sotnikova would have still won (she would have won with the 'e' call on her Lutz as well, easily) and Kim would have been at risk for dropping to third, under Kostner (who also received, IMO, generous GOEs especially on her spins).
We did the math. It's just that people are smoke screening it with their opinions and preferences, personal attack, name calling, and filibusters.
There is no need to continue discussing the matter if it's going to continue to be toxic. Do you have any math to share?
