Figure skating costumes: Behind the glitter and sequins

[Krunchii]

I agree with this line of thought.
But some people are easily offended. Or, even more strangely, easily offended on behalf of others.
When one has international roots, the crossover between cultures does not seem strange or bad. But each person processes what they see in a different way depending on their upbringing and personal experiences.
I would like to see even more diversity in style and music all around the world if possible.

However, when 'trying on' another culture's traditional music, it's also important to study up on it so that the intent behind the music can be understood.

Appropriation has exactly to do with your bolded sentence, not taking their time to research and giving inaccurate representations of someone else's culture or disrespecting their culture. For example, Johnny Weir using the bindi. I'm Chinese and I was hoping for some skaters to use skate some Chinese music this year because of the WCs being in Shanghai, if they have properly researched costumes and music I would be delighted to see diversity because it means less overused music and people would be trying new things. Now if a skater had come out with some sort of poorly researched costume that maybe mixes up my culture with another and puts bowing and peace signs or something that would offend me because that is not my culture.

 

[MoonlightSkater]

I still don't see how it's not harmonious when the costume's broken up into two pieces whereas off the ice we all wear different color pants, skirts, shirts and such.

Most of the time, we are not trying to create body lines or present ourselves as a moving piece of art when we choose our daily outfits.

 

[makaihime]

Bollywood, though, is sort of Indian pop music. -It's also fun and great for dancing and I don't see why anyone should object to its use...but I hope they've got a lot of energy 'cause it's quite exhausting.

Sacred objects and music aside, there's a lot of music from many cultures that would be great to introduce to a wider audience. A lot of traditional music is not sacred or spiritual but is in fact about food, farming, love, war and life.
There is also fusion music which takes the sounds of traditional instruments and merges them with modern music.

That right there, is the sense of entitlement. Which is something that's can be closely linked to "white privilege"; which in turn would lead us to the history of Europe's colonization of the world. Big can of worms better left unopened.

Cultural appropriation isn't about enjoying something from another culture because that is perfectly okay and encouraged. Its everyone's right to enjoy music, films, food, clothing, and language from different cultures and many people around the world want you to experience and embrace the beauty of their culture and its people. But it is those who take from other culture's and imitate it; making it about you; making it yours; benefiting from it; and etc. Which must be nice, since those people get all the beautiful and fun parts of a culture without having to experience the discrimination of its people. Weaving in and out of different cultures as they please and having a CHOICE while expecting it to be accepted by everyone. Which is again, entitlement.

 

[Interspectator]

But do a lot of Indian people express their displeasure of people of other countries dancing to Bollywood music?
And if that is appropriating--and a bad thing-- then should it not be said the same of anyone singing or interpreting the traditional music of any country? America and Europe included?
Should no Asian orchestra try to reinterpret Handel's Messiah because of entitlement?
That seems the way to stagnation.
Of course opinions will always be there, and like it or not the more globalization advances, the more cultures will be merged and fused for good or for ill.

 

[karne]

The other team I can recall having an Aboriginal-inspired program, aside from Domnina/Shabalin, was O'Brien/Merriman of Australia in 2008 for their OD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgunTnSSRbQ

This might be it?

The huge enormous difference between Domnina/Shabalin and O'Brien/Merriman was that a) O'Brien/Merriman are actually Australian and b) when constructing the program, they worked very closely with Aboriginal elders and traditional dancers so that their dance was authentic and as inoffensive as possible.

Domnina/Shabalin, on the other hand, seemed like they were actively trying to offend as many people as possible...

 

[fleeting]

The huge enormous difference between Domnina/Shabalin and O'Brien/Merriman was that a) O'Brien/Merriman are actually Australian and b) when constructing the program, they worked very closely with Aboriginal elders and traditional dancers so that their dance was authentic and as inoffensive as possible.

Domnina/Shabalin, on the other hand, seemed like they were actively trying to offend as many people as possible...

Oh yes, definitely! I absolutely agree. O'Brien/Merriman were respectful and tried to be as accurate as possible. Domnina/Shabalin's was a horrible caricature of the culture.
I just was trying to see if that was the program they had asked about, I personally enjoyed O'Brien/Merriman's a thousand times more. I'll be on the lookout for the interview where they talk about the creation and production of the program.

 

[Sandpiper]

Its because a majority of people who are guilty of cultural appropriation are those who take other cultures that are not their own and belittle the values and meaning of its history by making it into a fashion statement or a "cool trend" without understanding or even taking the time out to find out why its sacred and should not be worn or done by just anyone. They take it as their own without permission and act offended when others tell them its inappropriate to wear things like the native american headdress (which has become a fashion trend at festivals like coachella because the "hippie/boho" look is the new "in" thing). For those music festival goer's its just fashion, but for the Native American people, it is honored and a spiritual as well as powerful representation of its culture. Those headdress should only be worn by warriors and those of extremely high status. It represents their people, their tribes, and their beliefs and its beauty comes second to it true significance.

This is also applicable to those who dress up in tradition wear for show performances or as "pretty outfits". You are essentially stealing other people's culture for your own benefits and enjoyment as well as taking away the identity of those groups while making yourself "innovative" and "unique".

But how come this rule only goes one way? Would an Asian person wearing a ball gown become "cultural appropriation"? (Because elaborate gowns are meant to be worn by aristocracy only?)

Putting non-western cultures on an untouchable pedestal, while better than belittling them, is nonetheless a problem. To me at least, it comes across as this: Western dress and culture are the default; non-western cultures are the Other.

And frankly, it's kinda difficult to find a historically authentic costume--of any culture--that you can actually skate in. As long as you're not totally off base (e.g. skating to Bollywood music while wearing a shortened kimono), and you don't portray the people and culture in an offensive way (savage, stupid, helpless, ect.), I don't see the problem.

 

[Krunchii]

But how come this rule only goes one way? Would an Asian person wearing a ball gown become "cultural appropriation"? (Because elaborate gowns are meant to be worn by aristocracy only?)

Putting non-western cultures on an untouchable pedestal, while better than belittling them, is nonetheless a problem. To me at least, it comes across as this: Western dress and culture are the default; non-western cultures are the Other.

And frankly, it's kinda difficult to find a historically authentic costume--of any culture--that you can actually skate in. As long as you're not totally off base (e.g. skating to Bollywood music while wearing a shortened kimono), and you don't portray the people and culture in an offensive way (savage, stupid, helpless, ect.), I don't see the problem.

It's a huge can of worms you're opening here, Caucasian people historically have been the oppressors so there's a different type of power play going on here. I'm not a sociologist so I'm not going to go into detail because I'm not someone who is well versed enough to talk about this but generally western wear is accepted as the norm (spread through colonization) so it's not really cultural appropriation when you talk about gowns while something like a kimono is unique to Japan and is often bastardized and modified to fit people's own perception of what they want it to be.

 

[Sandpiper]

It's a huge can of worms you're opening here, Caucasian people historically have been the oppressors so there's a different type of power play going on here. I'm not a sociologist so I'm not going to go into detail because I'm not someone who is well versed enough to talk about this but generally western wear is accepted as the norm (spread through colonization) so it's not really cultural appropriation when you talk about gowns while something like a kimono is unique to Japan and is often bastardized and modified to fit people's own perception of what they want it to be.

But shouldn't we be working to change--or at least challenge--this? Rather than upholding it, which is what we do if we continue to place non-western culture in some untouchable exotic sphere.

 

[Krunchii]

But shouldn't we be working to change--or at least challenge--this? Rather than upholding it, which is what we do if we continue to place non-western culture in some untouchable exotic sphere.

But we don't place it in some untouchable exotic sphere =S we just want that when people engage in other cultures, to do it respectfully. Anyway, I doubt people will switch from western wear any time soon.

There are a lot of "social justice warriors" who are offended on other people's behalf and like to make engaging in other cultural pursuits a heinous crime but really, just do your research, have fun and there's no harm done.

 

[makaihime]

But how come this rule only goes one way? Would an Asian person wearing a ball gown become "cultural appropriation"? (Because elaborate gowns are meant to be worn by aristocracy only?)

Putting non-western cultures on an untouchable pedestal, while better than belittling them, is nonetheless a problem. To me at least, it comes across as this: Western dress and culture are the default; non-western cultures are the Other.

And frankly, it's kinda difficult to find a historically authentic costume--of any culture--that you can actually skate in. As long as you're not totally off base (e.g. skating to Bollywood music while wearing a shortened kimono), and you don't portray the people and culture in an offensive way (savage, stupid, helpless, ect.), I don't see the problem.

You guys are making this a black or white situation and it is not. You need to look at the context and its history. I'll make what I want to say short because I don't want to give a whole history lesson.

Western culture is considered superior and dominate while others are the minority. Other cultures adapting to western culture isn't appropriation because that is the the result of the domination and oppression during the European colonization. During that time almost 100% of Africa and more than 60% of Asia was colonized by the Europeans and thats only PART of the percentage of countries colonized by Europe. Many of those countries were ripped of their sense of self, forced to give up everything from their language to their beliefs and had to adopt the european culture. The same people who once violently forced their way into other cultures and deemed the people of those counties "half of a person" while forcing them to let go of all their ideals and adapt the the european way is now picking apart those very cultures and taking what they like as they please while expecting everyone to find it acceptable? Some of those people are evening say its their right to do so and people from those cultures should be glad because they're doing those cultures a favor by spreading "the love". Privilege and entitlement. There is a big difference between having a choice, and being oppressed and feed an ideology.

Cultural appropriation, white privilege, male privilege, racism, classism, and sexism is tiny part of a long list of social problems that exist in the world today. Whether you choose to be socially aware of it or not is up to you. You might say "I know that racism exist, obviously." To you, someone who chooses to be socially aware of racism as an ongoing problem, of course its obvious; but to many many others, its something they refuse to acknowledge. Millions of Americans believe that racism doesn't exist in America anymore because we have a black president. So because they say so, does that make racism and all those who are effected by it non-existent?

And on the topic of black americans, white people's appropriation of black culture is something that many of my friends despise. I'm not in any position to speak for the black community but I will say that many of them think its problematic and a big issue.

 

[Interspectator]

What you say is one point of view which it is important to have.
But not to take too far.
I'm not saying racism does not exist because of course it does.
Simply that an exchange of cultures and a merging of traditions is possible and can be positive for both sides.

It's not black and white, I never said it was.

But I believe it is possible for one country or culture to accept another by embracing some of their culture and even changing it a bit without being considered elitist or entitled. I think it is in fact inevitable. As countries get closer together through trade and travel they will have cultural exchanges no matter what -and fads and fashions will go from one country to another in ways that are unstoppable.

I'm not even talking about West VS East, but between any country and on a more personal level, one of the sincerest forms of appreciation is imitation.

Anyway, I agree to disagree with you in certain aspects of this topic.

 

[ordinary person]

Most of the time, we are not trying to create body lines or present ourselves as a moving piece of art when we choose our daily outfits.

I see what you mean but all i'm saying is it doesn't have to be the end of the world if you don't have any skin-tone on your costume.
Speaking of daily outfits, we wear the craziest things out there and the last thing on our minds is to look like a moving piece of art on the ice.

 

[Ophelia]

You guys are making this a black or white situation and it is not. You need to look at the context and its history. I'll make what I want to say short because I don't want to give a whole history lesson.

Western culture is considered superior and dominate while others are the minority. Other cultures adapting to western culture isn't appropriation because that is the the result of the domination and oppression during the European colonization. During that time almost 100% of Africa and more than 60% of Asia was colonized by the Europeans and thats only PART of the percentage of countries colonized by Europe. Many of those countries were ripped of their sense of self, forced to give up everything from their language to their beliefs and had to adopt the european culture. The same people who once violently forced their way into other cultures and deemed the people of those counties "half of a person" while forcing them to let go of all their ideals and adapt the the european way is now picking apart those very cultures and taking what they like as they please while expecting everyone to find it acceptable? Some of those people are evening say its their right to do so and people from those cultures should be glad because they're doing those cultures a favor by spreading "the love". Privilege and entitlement. There is a big difference between having a choice, and being oppressed and feed an ideology.

Cultural appropriation, white privilege, male privilege, racism, classism, and sexism is tiny part of a long list of social problems that exist in the world today. Whether you choose to be socially aware of it or not is up to you. You might say "I know that racism exist, obviously." To you, someone who chooses to be socially aware of racism as an ongoing problem, of course its obvious; but to many many others, its something they refuse to acknowledge. Millions of Americans believe that racism doesn't exist in America anymore because we have a black president. So because they say so, does that make racism and all those who are effected by it non-existent?

And on the topic of black americans, white people's appropriation of black culture is something that many of my friends despise. I'm not in any position to speak for the black community but I will say that many of them think its problematic and a big issue.

Applause.

 

[ice coverage]

Going to open up a whole 'nother can of worms ... but something that always has bothered me:

I recall some baffling (to me) comments from past threads that were along the lines of (I'm paraphrasing): "Ralph and Hill already have had one program with an African theme, so been there, done that; another one obviously would be redundant."
In fact, I found such opinions downright offensive -- as if it were wrong for someone to embrace and celebrate his very own culture.
To me, it seems perfectly natural and on point for Asher Hill -- whose African roots are part of his life, whether he is on or off the ice -- to explore African themes as many times as he so chooses.

[I don't recall any criticism of skaters (non-Latinos and non-Latinas) who have used Latin themes more than once during their careers.]

 

[Meoima]

To be frankly, as an Asian, I don't mind much if some Western people tried to wear our traditional costumes. I don't care much if they look funny. Well in fact, most look funny, though. But if they wear those outfits just to make fun of us, then be careful.

 

[Icey]

IMHO FS would do well to lose the glitter and sequins if it wishes to have a broader appeal as a SPORT.

 

[Interspectator]

IMHO FS would do well to lose the glitter and sequins if it wishes to have a broader appeal as a SPORT.

Ah Hah! an even larger can of worms.

Personally, I like to be horrified by the sequins.
If I want it without the sequins, I watch gymnastics.
GO UCHIMURA!!

 

[karne]

IMHO FS would do well to lose the glitter and sequins if it wishes to have a broader appeal as a SPORT.

Or maybe the rest of the world should get their heads out of their backsides and acknowledge that the sequins and glitter do not take away from the physical demands of this SPORT.

 

[Icey]

Or maybe the rest of the world should get their heads out of their backsides and acknowledge that the sequins and glitter do not take away from the physical demands of this SPORT.

I don't think the rest of the world thinks the costumes lessen the physical demands of the sport, but see them as being at odds with a widely held view of "sport", which is not easy to change.
There was a time when the the sequins and glitter were sparse, if present at all. According to current ISU regulations, costumes in competition "must be modest, dignified and appropriate for athletic competition – not garish or theatrical in design. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't think the public at large associates sequins and glitter with athletic competition. Glitter and sequins are more ice show for many, not athletic competition.