State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15

[Sandpiper]

Brown also under rotated lots of jumps. I am not talking about 2008-2010 in terms of jump point values but the larger truth of how spin levels and goe and step levels and goe and high pcs can make one jump - one jump of any kind- meaningless. Everyone made errors and had major errors on jumps and the pcs /step level /spin level / high goe person won. So brown won nebelhorn and can win skam and others and gpf and worlds because he has every single thing except one thing.

Frankly, I think Jason's PCS were compensation points for the ridiculous UR rules. His jumps are fairly small for a male skater, but he didn't make any mistakes that marred the program, and his URs aren't huge and visible to the naked eye (at least not to me). He should not be losing more points for URs than Brezina is for step-outs/falls/hand downs.

Yes, Jason has good PCS and steps and spins. And so does Yuzuru Hanyu (and he gets even better PCS, even with multiple errors). How on earth is Jason supposed to win Worlds barring a major breakdown from the rest of the field, and an absolutely flawless skate from him? (He was nowhere near winning the Sochi Olympics, and that was, frankly, a horrendous event).

 

[Matt K]

Wait a minute...how the heck is Adelina comparable to Brown/Lysacek/Buttle?? She won over Kim because of her technical content, not lack thereof. The example of Adelina is wrong.

 

[gmyers]

Frankly, I think Jason's PCS were compensation points for the ridiculous UR rules. His jumps are fairly small for a male skater, but he didn't make any mistakes that marred the program, and his URs aren't huge and visible to the naked eye (at least not to me). He should not be losing more points for URs than Brezina is for step-outs/falls/hand downs.

Yes, Jason has good PCS and steps and spins. And so does Yuzuru Hanyu (and he gets even better PCS, even with multiple errors). How on earth is Jason supposed to win Worlds barring a major breakdown from the rest of the field, and an absolutely flawless skate from him? (He was nowhere near winning the Sochi Olympics, and that was, frankly, a horrendous event).

That pcs for brown is only going up! Maybe because of such things as you mention.

Hanyu is the only exception this season! Chan would be another next season. No one else should be favored over brown.

 

[Mathman]

... brown won nebelhorn and can win skam and others and gpf and worlds because he has every single thing except one thing.

Well, a lot of Jason fans hope your prediction comes true. :yes: We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Wait a minute...how the heck is Adelina comparable to Brown/Lysacek/Buttle?? She won over Kim because of her technical content, not lack thereof. The example of Adelina is wrong.

She added an additional jump, got more points for it. Part of the points game IS your technical content. Add more technical content and you can garner more points than your opponents who do not. But part of the beauty of COP is that there are SEVERAL ways to garner points. Adding additional technical content isn't the ONLY way to play the points game.

Not really all that difficult to understand...

 

[Matt K]

She added an additional jump, got more points for it. Part of the points game IS your technical content. Add more technical content and you can garner more points than your opponents who do not. But part of the beauty of COP is that there are SEVERAL ways to garner points. Adding additional technical content isn't the ONLY way to play the points game.

Not really all that difficult to understand...

But Jason is not adding more technical content.

So Adelina should not be grouped in with Buttle/Lysacek/Brown in that regards.

Also, AFAIR, Adelina's technical content was as good as anybody else in her field (minus Mao's 3A which nobody else attempts). It is not like she is missing a 3-3 or anything.

 

[WeakAnkles]

But Jason is not adding more technical content.

So Adelina should not be grouped in with Buttle/Lysacek/Brown in that regards.

What regards? We're talking about a system which offers its players SEVERAL ways to gather points. They all--Buttle, Lycsacek, Brown AND Adelina--played the point game to their advantage. Variations on a theme is still a theme.

 

[Sandpiper]

That pcs for brown is only going up! Maybe because of such things as you mention.

Hanyu is the only exception this season! Chan would be another next season. No one else should be favored over brown.

Fernandez, Machida, and Ten are all clearly favoured over Brown. Kovtun and Han Yan are arguably also favoured over Brown (and I say this as a person who likes Jason vastly more than either of them). If they can get their act together, Abbott, Gachinski, Aaron, Kozuka, Farris, Reynolds, and Voronov can all beat Brown.

Jason Brown is about fifth favourite at best, and that's assuming a lot of implosions.

But since you're worried about the quad's future... let's look at the situation in juniors. Adian Pitkeev and Nam Nguyen, probably the best two people coming out of juniors right now, are both practicing the quad (and posting videos of themselves trying it!) Boyang Jin is jumping quads left, right, and centre. Mishin, Alexander Petrov's coach, says that a major hurtle going into seniors is getting a stable quad. Shoma Uno, I believe, has now landed a quad.

 

[Matt K]

Adelina

But since you're worried about the quad's future... let's look at the situation in juniors. Adian Pitkeev and Nam Nguyen, probably the best two people coming out of juniors right now, are both practicing the quad (and posting videos of themselves trying it!) Boyang Jin is jumping quads left, right, and centre. Mishin, Alexander Petrov's coach, says that a major hurtle going into seniors is getting a stable quad. Shoma Uno, I believe, has now landed a quad.

Thank you.

What regards? We're talking about a system which offers its players SEVERAL ways to gather points. They all--Buttle, Lycsacek, Brown AND Adelina--played the point game to their advantage. Variations on a theme is still a theme.

I did not disagree that CoP allows ways for skaters to maximize points in various ways. But the approach taken by Adelina to add another jump is not the same as Brown.

There is a difference whether you choose to see it or not. Adelina is not using lack of technical content to compensate for other things like choreography and such to get points. Now, if she is using different ways to maximize points because she lacks a 3-3, then yes, I agree, she is taking the Lysacek/Buttle/Brown route. However, she is not. Her technical content is as good as any of her peers (minus Mao's 3A, but no one does it anyways). Never mind.

As for choreo, I actually liked her FD.

 

[gmyers]

Fernandez, Machida, and Ten are all clearly favoured over Brown. Kovtun and Han Yan are arguably also favoured over Brown (and I say this as a person who likes Jason vastly more than either of them). If they can get their act together, Abbott, Gachinski, Aaron, Kozuka, Farris, Reynolds, and Voronov can all beat Brown.

Jason Brown is about fifth favourite at best, and that's assuming a lot of implosions.

But since you're worried about the quad's future... let's look at the situation in juniors. Adian Pitkeev and Nam Nguyen, probably the best two people coming out of juniors right now, are both practicing the quad (and posting videos of themselves trying it!) Boyang Jin is jumping quads left, right, and centre. Mishin, Alexander Petrov's coach, says that a major hurtle going into seniors is getting a stable quad. Shoma Uno, I believe, has now landed a quad.

I believe the brown situation is an extraordinary event. I don't believe like with lysacek and his no quad tech and Nichol programs brown is adoptable by other skaters. He's like lighting in a bottle. I believe plushenko feels afinity for him because he sees a fellow crowd electrifier! That's something you can't train at! Either its there or not and you can't fake it! That's why pcs along with being very cop savvy is so Impressive. Intangibles. These intangibles as well as tangibles combine for monster scores that can outscore any quad inclusive program and have several times already. You can't drop a quad and get to brown like with lysacek.

Well, a lot of Jason fans hope your prediction comes true. :yes: We'll have to wait and see, I guess.

All tests are coming soon and at the end of this month.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Thank you.



I did not disagree that CoP allows ways for skaters to maximize points in various ways. But the approach taken by Adelina to add another jump is not the same as Brown.

There is a difference whether you choose to see it or not. Adelina is not using lack of technical content to compensate for other things like choreography and such to get points. Now, if she is using different ways to maximize points because she lacks a 3-3, then yes, I agree, she is taking the Lysacek/Buttle/Brown route. However, she is not. Her technical content is as good as any of her peers (minus Mao's 3A, but no one does it anyways). Never mind.

As for choreo, I actually liked her FD.

"You say tomayto
I say tomahto
You say potayto
I say potahto
Tomayto! Tomahto!
Potayto! Potahto!"
Etc.

I'm not sure Adeina's program was so much choreographed as it was constructed, with Tarasova there to impose a fancy schmancy "interpretation" on it for those of us who can't see the Empress's new skating outfit. But hey--YMMV, et al.

Whatever else you might want to say about Jason, his programs are meticulously choreographed. And as gmyers noted above, he has the kind of charisma that is indeed lightning in a bottle. It doesn't always win medals--ask Toller Cranston and Christopher Bowman about that--but it is truly memorable.

 

[Matt K]

You did not read my argument at all. Never mind.

Go Max Aaron

 

[karne]

Go Max Aaron

Max, and Joshua, and Jason. What a Worlds team that would be.

 

[NYscorp6]

Max, and Joshua, and Jason. What a Worlds team that would be.

Agreed, or substitute Adam for any of the above. As long as we are not subjected to another Jeremy meltdown, I have no desire or intention of watching that.

 

[centerpt1]

On the other hand, Jeremy got the US 3 Worlds slots back.

The questions for this Season-

Will letting Max be Max help him get his mojo back?

Will Jason's tech be enough?

Can Jeremy finally improve off a good Worlds?

Will Farris finally get some good skating luck (and health) and be able to show what he can do?

Is this finally the year Rippon gets it together?

Dornbush? Miner? Carriere?

 

[el henry]

"You say tomayto
I say tomahto
You say potayto
I say potahto
Tomayto! Tomahto!
Potayto! Potahto!"
Etc.

I'm not sure Adeina's program was so much choreographed as it was constructed, with Tarasova there to impose a fancy schmancy "interpretation" on it for those of us who can't see the Empress's new skating outfit. But hey--YMMV, et al.

Whatever else you might want to say about Jason, his programs are meticulously choreographed. And as gmyers noted above, he has the kind of charisma that is indeed lightning in a bottle. It doesn't always win medals--ask Toller Cranston and Christopher Bowman about that--but it is truly memorable.

:


Always glad to see Bowman the Showman get his props too. Medals, schmedals. Good skating.:agree:

 

[mrrice]

On the other hand, Jeremy got the US 3 Worlds slots back.

The questions for this Season-

Will letting Max be Max help him get his mojo back?

Will Jason's tech be enough?

Can Jeremy finally improve off a good Worlds?

Will Farris finally get some good skating luck (and health) and be able to show what he can do?

Is this finally the year Rippon gets it together?

Dornbush? Miner? Carriere?

Great questions ! My top 6 US Men for this season.

I'd love to see Adam Rippon make a real move. He's so talented and I hope Rafael can keep him focused as I fear his time with the judges is running short.

If we're going to keep 3 spots, I'd put my money on Max and Jason. Not because I think they're the most talented since I still believe that spot belongs to Jeremy. IMO, they're the best competitors. Max, probably has the best chance of medaling at Worlds due to his tech scores and I am hopeful that Jeremy or Jason will be top 6


I truly hope Jeremy has a great year but I really worry about his body holding up as prepares for this season. He deserves it but, he has to earn it. I hope my heart can take watching him
:agree:

Richard and Ross: Gifted and capable of great things. Hard working nice guys but, I never really trust them to hold up under pressure. Even though they didn't place as well as I thought they should, they both made the most of their World Championship debuts. I find it surprising that neither has been back.

Joshua, IMO, is the most talented of his generation. I think he'll eventually break through but I don't think it will happen until 2016. He was such a great junior and unlike Adam, I think he competes well. I hope he avoids feeling the pressure that I still believe Adam feels.

1. Max

2. Jeremy

3. Jason

4. Richard

5. Adam

6. Ross

 

[Icey]

I wouldn't say Nebelhorn was a garbage competition, but winning a gold medal with a lp that had 4 ur's and 4 negative goe's is not a state of affairs I won't to see continue in skating competitions.

 

[Mrs. P]

Brenzina popped several jumps (and not just his quads) and fell. That would have been better?

Menshov had -GOE on five elements.

I mean really it's not Jason won against guys who had the best skates EVER.

 

[mrrice]

Wait a minute...how the heck is Adelina comparable to Brown/Lysacek/Buttle?? She won over Kim because of her technical content, not lack thereof. The example of Adelina is wrong.

:agree: I wish people would lay off my girl Adelina. Brown, Lysacek, and Buttle. I love all them but, Adelina does not belong in that group. She's great technically, and the girl can deliver a performance with the same fire as those listed above.

She's a cut above those boys.