They said a version of this when they said all of usfs was saying hed never be a medalists at a gp withou a quad. Now he's a major SKAM win contender and they haven't changed a thing! They know the route to his success.
State of the U.S. Men's Figure Skating for 2014-15
- Thread starter Mrs. P
- Start date
They said a version of this when they said all of usfs was saying hed never be a medalists at a gp withou a quad. Now he's a major SKAM win contender and they haven't changed a thing! They know the route to his success.
Thanks for the older bkgd, Mrs. P.
Agree that 2014 was never the only goal.
Do you have any opinion as to whether a U.S. gold medal is not one of Team Kori's sooner-rather-than-later stepping-stone goals on the road to 2018??
I think they know where Jason is on the pecking order among the U.S. Men and know that a U.S. championship is within their reach if he skates to his absolute best.
But I think if they don't get it, they will assess the situation and move forward.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
And this is actually part of why I am such a Jason Brown fan. His team really does seem to get the whole big picture and I do think that can be a recipe to long term success.
Kori does seem to have a really good feel for what his limits are and what he can do. We heard Jason talk many times about how he did not think he could do the Riverdance program, wanted to ease up on it, but that was vetoed because Kori & co knew it was not beyond him. Compare his performance at nationals under ideal circumstances where he was not quite perfect but still phenomenal and with room to enjoy it; and his performance at the Olympics under some of the most stressful circumstances a skater can face. He was less than perfect, but still good enough to finish in the single digits. So the program he was given was still challenging in a good way in ideal circumstances, but still within his abilities to do well enough on a bad day to stay in the top ten of the world. I would call that a bullseye! That program was just about the perfect level to push him, but not break him - and his team knew it when he did not. His team clearly knows his Goldilocks zone.
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
Disagree with a lot of Stitch's post, although I found it interesting.
The thing about not Team Kori not eyeing the 2015 U.S. Championship is hard for me to believe. I remember Jason saying that for the longest time he himself always had his sights set on the 2018 Olympics -- without viewing himself as a likely contender for the 2014 team -- UNTIL Kori's persistent urging to "think 2014, not 2018," eventually led him to focus seriously on the possibility of Sochi.
So yes, they do take the long view ... except when they don't.Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Well I don't think they would be upset about winning! Maybe another way to put it is that they don't want to lose the national gold, i.e. be the favorite, first after short and then not do well in long. But I still don't think that a silver is going to be seen as a lose or a disappointment this year. At junior worlds, he clearly looked disappointed with silver, I don't think that would be the case at nationals this year. I just don't know how much his team likely wants him to be in a position to feel the need to defend his title three times before the Olympics. It is great if you can do it, but it is stressful and difficult. As big picture as team Jason is, I can't imagine the defending his title stress angle has not occurred to them. Wining this year, would be more work and stress in the long run.
Thanks for the older bkgd, Mrs. P.
Agree that 2014 was never the only goal.
Do you have any opinion as to whether a U.S. gold medal is not one of Team Kori's sooner-rather-than-later stepping-stone goals on the road to 2018??
I know it was not at me, but I am going to answer anyway. I think it is a 2016/2017 goal. My guess is this year is about defending his silver. Max Aaron had some good comments recently about learning how to defend a title. He has a point. So a good path for Jason would be to learn to defend his silver/maintain standing this year, then go for gold next year. If it does not happen in 2016, he can do it it 2017 and still have time to defend his title before the Olympics.
For him it is not just about winning a competition this year, it is about maintaining momentum.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
I don't understand this story of the quad. Ok, have a quad is a good thing.
But for example: In classical ballet there is the grand tour (32 times!) for the primaballerine, Ok, one thing that is a must for a primaballerina. But only in the classical style!
Ok, she makes it. BUT: if the rest of the dance (choreograpy) it isn't liked by the public, the visitors leave the theatre! And if she makes only 26 tours but the rest is beautiful, the audience loves the dancer. And there are the modern choreografies WITHout the mythical '32primaballerina grand tours", I thin the quads are the some mythical things...
I don't care if Jason wins a medal or not. Living in Europe I can see the american competition only on you tube. But if once arrive production on ice with him in Europe it is certain that I buy a ticket to see it (regardless of the medals). I looked for example the videos of Max Aaron and J. Abbott. They are both fantastic skatera and maybe take their medals this year. (The quads, the score of the judges ecc.) But for me they are very very very good competitors, not artists. If I buy a ticket to see an atristical show I do it because I want to see real artists. Not one or two quad.
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2014
And yes, I agree: Jason is a very lucky person having his team, principaly Kori Ade who is a fantastic coach and person!
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
Just a quick correction to your timeline, Mrs P
Actually, Jason first brought the triple Axel in at JGP Turkey that season. He was under a huge amount of pressure - he'd lost to Boyang Jin at Courchevel, but then Joshua had beaten everybody by more than 30 points at JGP SLC by not only landing beautiful 3As but also an impeccable quad toe. So there was a lot of pressure and I think that's the only time he and Kori caved to external forces. He brought the 3A to Turkey even though it was very obviously not ready. He tried it twice for a downgrade + fall (short program) and underrotation + fall (long program). He won JGP Turkey by nearly 20 points, IIRC, and then it was the JGPF Final where he actually rotated it for the first time.Jason also attempted it at a small regional comp in the summer before that season (fell but got credit for rotation).
Thinking about it, Joshua is probably a large part of the reason for a lot of the pressure on Jason (unintentionally, of course). He has these textbook-perfect jumps, so big and beautiful and an air position that is utterly divine, and his 3A is unquestionably the best of all the US men and I would say one of the best in the world. And he has landed a quad in competition, and does them regularly in practice. Even when he falls on them, he usually rotates them. All of this and he is actually younger than Jason, so I can see where a lot of people would look at them and go, well he can, why can't you? (Of course, they're two completely different skaters and human beings, thank goodness!).
Just a quick correction to your timeline, Mrs P
Jason also attempted it at a small regional comp in the summer before that season (fell but got credit for rotation).
Thinking about it, Joshua is probably a large part of the reason for a lot of the pressure on Jason (unintentionally, of course). He has these textbook-perfect jumps, so big and beautiful and an air position that is utterly divine, and his 3A is unquestionably the best of all the US men and I would say one of the best in the world. And he has landed a quad in competition, and does them regularly in practice. Even when he falls on them, he usually rotates them. All of this and he is actually younger than Jason, so I can see where a lot of people would look at them and go, well he can, why can't you? (Of course, they're two completely different skaters and human beings, thank goodness!).
I guess I mean the first time it was ratified.
But yes you are correct.I of course remember all the Josh v. Jason discussions and that whole weird meme that pro-Jason =/= anti-Josh. Many also thought that Josh would be the one to shine in seniors and that Jason wouldn't make it.
FWIW, I was definitely not anti-Josh, but I did not really connect to his skating when he was in juniors. I definitely respected his technical skill, however. In any case, seeing him live in nationals warmed me up to him and I really liked his Schindler's List FS! I hope both Josh and Jason have a successful season!
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I agree that Joshua had to have had an impact on every Junior skater in the world. He is smooth as silk and technically great when he's on. I still think he needs another season to get used to not winning all the time.
If he's anything like I was as a competitor, it was very hard to move up to the elite level and not win. I went through it as young competitor and it really plays with your head. I was undefeated as a Junior ( 13-15 Yrs old ) and I was shocked when I lost as a 16 year old even though my coach had tried to prepare me for the possibility.
I eventually won again when I was 18 but, it was a very hard 2 year drought and if not for my coach, I would have quit altogether.
If he's anything like I was as a competitor, it was very hard to move up to the elite level and not win. I went through it as young competitor and it really plays with your head. I was undefeated as a Junior ( 13-15 Yrs old ) and I was shocked when I lost as a 16 year old even though my coach had tried to prepare me for the possibility.
I eventually won again when I was 18 but, it was a very hard 2 year drought and if not for my coach, I would have quit altogether.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
That I don't quite remember. I do remember an awful lot of Lysacek/Weir comparisons (obviously Jason was Johnny and Josh was Evan) which I remember thinking was very insulting to both of them because Josh's triple Axel was an actual triple Axel and Jason's attitude was always so shiny and positive...
He is a very internalised skater and I think he's still working on that part of himself. People who've met him say he's very shy so I can totally understand why he has trouble projecting himself on the ice and why a lot of people don't connect to him.
Possibly if I absolutely had to choose one of my trio to be National Champion this year (and I guess I will have to anyway), it would be Josh. Max already has one and as long as he's on the podium will always be there or thereabouts, and Jason already has the public in the palm of his hand, but Josh remains basically invisible.
In fact, he was SO invisible that a couple of seasons ago the USFSA did a "Senior Men" preview video, which included pretty much most of the Senior men in the US at the time, even Max (before he was National Champion so he wasn't exactly "on the radar"), Jason, and Nathan Chen - but not even a single shot of Josh.
Here's the video: Yep, Max even gets a close-up in the opening part (that costume is interesting, I wonder which program that was). Evan, Johnny, Jeremy, Adam, Ricky, Jonathon, Keegan, Doug, Nathan, Jason ...no Josh.
Here's that thread I was talking about!
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?43963-Jason-Brown-Gold-In-Sochi/page2
I was remembering "a top 10 without a quad would be pretty fantastic" as like "there's no way it's possible!"
Fantastical
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?43963-Jason-Brown-Gold-In-Sochi/page2
I was remembering "a top 10 without a quad would be pretty fantastic" as like "there's no way it's possible!"
Fantastical
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
^DMD wins for best comment on that page. 
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
Actually, posting this makes YOU look like a fool, because most of the people on that page thought a top 10 was totally possible for Jason. (Whee, I called it!)
Mrs P didn't say it would be fantastical. She said it would be fantastic - wonderful. And it was wonderful.
Um no. I'd appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. What that sentence stated is exactly what I meant -- Finishing in the top 10 would be fantastic, a good achievement. Which it was.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2013
^DMD wins for best comment on that page.
Yes.
Though it would solve the problem of Gracie needing hourly hugs... I said I remembered it as being "fantastical". There's no reason for you to have such a nasty edge with your "stupid" and "fool" remarks.
^DMD wins for best comment on that page.
Yes. Though I've never shipped for a Gold-Brown matchup.
I didn't . I said what my memory of the comments was.
But that's not what I meant, so I don't understand how you think this supports your argument.
My view point on Jason that he is a good competitor, but there were other factors (such as the high BV of those with quads if clean) that would make it tough for him to get any sort of podium placement.
And that's my position now. I don't feel Nebelhorn proved anything. It's not like Brezina, et al. got 90+ TES or heck, even 80+ and they still lost. Their TES was only a few points higher than Jason's.
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My argument is that I remembered your comments more negatively than they actually were.
