Copyright Laws + Music

[Skate2Music]

Hello,

Now that the ISU allows lyrics their are many more possibilities when it comes to music especially when it comes to lesser know artists, so my question is what are the copyright laws surrounding music usage for ISU competitions? Also is their any strict rules when it comes to music selections and can judges mark lower for
less traditional choices?

 

[NaVi]

I'm pretty sure royalties are paid out, but I have to wonder how this is done for some skaters who don't list the right artist for the song they are using. Pogorilaya is not skating to Adagio by Il Divo but by Lara Fabian. Yulia is not skating to Romeo and Juliet by Nino Rota but "A Time For Us" covered by David Davidson. I forgot what the song is(could find it again by going through my youtube history), but Yulia doesn't even list the 2nd music cut while the 3rd one is listed.

 

[noskates]

Makes you wonder if there will be a backlash soon. I think copyright laws are being enforced in many other areas such as cover bands, singing contests (The Voice, American Idol, etc.) so it's probably just a matter of time.

But - how hard is it to list the artist for the music you're skating to. Someone had to put it together!

 

[louisa05]

I assume that broadcasters have to adhere to applicable laws and get permissions to air the music. There are potential positives for artists if they allow the music to be used--look what happened to sales for Eva Cassidy's estate after Michelle Kwan used her cover of "Fields of Gold". I don't foresee a lot of issues with it, actually. If there were going to be problems, they would have come up already with the pop tunes often used in exhibitions. I think talent show issues are different because some artists are extremely sensitive to who performs their material and how they perform it.

I once sat through an educator workshop (many years ago) that was allegedly teaching how to create Powerpoint presentations. The presenter, instead of teaching that, ranted about copyright the entire time and insisted that skating and women's gymnastics were about to be banned in the U.S. because they use music and no one can ever in any circumstance use music. She was trying to say teachers can be jailed (yes, jailed!) for playing a CD in a classroom and that no one can ever put a photo they did not take in a presentation lest they be jailed for violating copyright (yes, jailed!!). She also seemed to have zero knowledge of fair use laws as they apply to education, and she was convinced that the penalty for any minor copyright infraction is incarceration.

The two of us from my school who attended gave a bad evaluation of the whole damn thing and then were reprimanded by our principal for doing so. And we both subsequently figured out how to use Powerpoint on our own.

 

[skatemouse]

In my understanding copyright law does not pertain if the music is altered or is cut in anyway. Like when you do a play like The Cinder Shoe and it is a story changed in some way of Cinderella. It is the same with music and performance as with plays and musicals. So even with words it will never be full length version it will always be arranged or abridged or shorter in some way making it new and not able to get charged it is how the creative process can continue. If a teacher plays the full CD in their rooms long as they purchased the CD they are fine. You steal a Disney play word for word and music word for word at the exact length and not rearranged or changed in some way you are going down. Disney is crazy protective. I think schools should never be charged but it is what it is I guess.
So it just depends. I know many of the skaters who don't change the length have their music professionally cut or altered in some way by adding instruments or moments. It is an interesting thing. That change makes it their own.

 

[ice coverage]

In my understanding copyright law does not pertain if the music is altered or is cut in anyway.

Don't think U.S. copyright law works this way.

For instance, I think the "Happy Birthday" song is completely off limits because of its copyright (which apparently is heavily enforced). TV shows don't dare use even a few seconds of it.

 

[louisa05]

Don't think U.S. copyright law works this way.

For instance, I think the "Happy Birthday" song is completely off limits because of its copyright (which apparently is heavily enforced). TV shows don't dare use even a few seconds of it.

No, it does not. And you are right about "Happy Birthday". That is why I think it is safe to assume that broadcasters secure permission/rights for music used in skating broadcasts. They are certainly familiar with the issues surrounding copyright laws and the airing of music. Google search reveals that much of the music used would be covered on U.S. broadcasts by licensing agreements that most networks hold for use of music with performance rights groups (ASCAP for example).

 

[ice coverage]

No, it does not. And you are right about "Happy Birthday". That is why I think it is safe to assume that broadcasters secure permission/rights for music used in skating broadcasts. They are certainly familiar with the issues surrounding copyright laws and the airing of music. .

Agree with your assumption, louisa. :yes:

U.S. networks have specific departments to handle permissions/rights, and it certainly is in their interest to support copyright protection of all content (whether it belongs to others -- or in other instances, to themselves). (Networks also have lawyers on staff, if a dispute should rise to that level.)

 

[leafygreens]

Networks can play any song they want, they just have to pay royalties. There are royalties paid to the artist when their song is sang on The Voice or skated to in competitions.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Wasn't sure which of the music threads would be the most appropriate, but since this deals with legal issues, I've decided to try this one.

Looking at the "Fun Commercials !!" thread in Le Café started me thinking.

Now that we have lyrics allowed, is there anything in the rules that prevents skaters from using music that could be perceived as advertising?

For example, in 2012, a song about Facebook by Valentina Monetta was selected as San Marino's Eurovision Song Contest entry. But, mentioning Facebook directly was seen as infringing a rule banning commercial messages, and the EBU disqualified the entry until the lyrics were changed. (New version, as performed in the contest)

Admittedly, this song wasn't actually advertising Facebook. It was just a song about what young people nowadays do on Facebook. But, what about a song whose lyrics were actually advertising something?

You know the way that some companies take songs and then give them new lyrics for their adverts. Well, there are a couple of insurance companies over here in Northern Ireland that do that with great effect.

A few years ago, one insurance company did a short ad using the tune of nursury rhyme "I'm H-A-P-P-Y". This isn't on YouTube, but another one they did using the tune of "If You're Happy And You Know It" can be found here.

Meanwhile, another insurance company did an ad using the tune of "Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" by Bombalurina and children's TV star Timmy Mallet.

(Can you imagine what a skating routine using that song would turn out like?! )

Unfortunately, this ad isn't on YouTube either. But here is another ad the same company did using the tune of "It's Raining Men" by the Weather Girls. (In case you are wondering, that is local celebrity May McFetridge taking centre stage).

Somehow, I don't think this Gala number Irina Slutskaya did to Geri Halliwell's version a few years ago would have the same effect with those lyrics!

I really hope the ISU have something written into the rules that prevents advertising within the song lyrics.

Otherwise, how long will it be until we are watching yet another(!) routine to George Bizet's "Toreadores", only this time with the lyrics "Stop at the Esso, at the Esso sign"...?!

CaroLiza_fan

 

[dorispulaski]

Or I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing....Coke, It's the Real Thing?

When a brand becomes as associated with a song as Coke, does the word "Coke" even have to be mentioned? When you see "product placement" in TV shows and corporate logos on sports uniforms, the corporation has paid for that advertisement, even when the sponsor's name is never mentioned.

Would use of a recognizable song that had also been used as an ad be prohibited?

 

[Pamigena]

Would use of a recognizable song that had also been used as an ad be prohibited?

I guess it depends. I (and many people I know) have to think of pizza EVERY time I hear this, but I don't see them banning it any time soon (they've been using this for ages. I don't think their ads would even work without at least parts of this song)

 

[dorispulaski]

I think teams on the GP with funding problems should consider selling "ad product placement" by using such songs. Heck. it would be more amusing than another POTO....double

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Doris and Pamina - you both have some very good points.

The "Pizza Ristorante" example just shows how effective advertisers can be when they get it right. And they're not the only ones. Like, every time I hear "O Sole Mio", I start singing in my head "Just one Cornetto..."

HOWEVER, the difference with your experience and mine is that the pizza ad is just using the music itself to trigger an association. With the ice cream ad, Walls had to have lyrics that mentioned the name of their ice cream. So, in that respect, the pizza ad is more effective.

With Coca Cola, I suppose it depends which song you're talking about, Doris. (Bear in mind that I'm the other side of the Atlantic, and probably don't get all the same Coke ads as you).

If it's the song that starts "The stars will always shine, the birds will always sing" (which I just discovered is from a full song by Joey Diggs), well it directly mentions the name of the product in the lyrics. And anyway, I think it was specifically written for the ad campaign.

But, if it's the song in the Christmas ads with the big red trucks, well it is an adaptation of a song like the ones I was talking about in my previous comment. Yes, even when you hear the original song (Melanie Thornton's "Wonderful Dream"), everybody still associates it with the product it advertised. But the important thing for this discussion is that the original lyrics do not mention the product by name.

The complication arises with Janis Joplin's "Mercedes Benz". When she wrote the song, it was not her intention to endorse Daimler-Benz. In fact, she was trying to do the opposite. But, a few years ago, they got permission to use it in a Mercedes advertising campaign, and it has become associated with those ads ever since.

These two songs ("Wonderful Dream" and "Mercedes Benz") could be translated into very good skating programmes, in my opinion. But, because of their associations with specific products, I am not sure whether it will ever happen. "Wonderful Dream" might because it does not mention the product, but I cannot imagine "Mercedes Benz" being allowed.

As for the need for more sponsors in the sport, that is something I was thinking about over the past few weeks.

At Skate Canada, it was very noticable that there was a great lack of sponsors logos on the boards compared to Skate America. Added to that, most of the logos on the boards were from:

• the local province
• the country
• the national governing body
• the international governing body
• the host broadcaster

At most, there were only about 5 corporate sponsors. And there were also large gaps between logos.

Contrast this to the other Grands Prix we have had. Admittedly, the next one, the Trophée Éric Bompard, normally does not have many logos on the boards. But that is because they have a big title sponsor (Éric Bompard). Skate Canada does not.

Is this a sign that figure skating is in serious trouble in Canada? Or, are Canadian companies just being more careful with their cash? Either way, it is worrying for the future of the sport in that country.

But, that is getting way off the topic of this thread.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[ice coverage]

... Would use of a recognizable song that had also been used as an ad be prohibited?

Apparently not -- given that Rhapsody in Blue is going strong as skating music, although United Airlines has used it for many years.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, but I associate Rhapsody in Blue with the Gershwins and Ilia Kulik. The airline has clearly failed in its ad campaign where I am concerned. OTOH, I can't hear any of the Coke ad music without thinking of Coke. And I can't hear Up Up and Away without thinking of TWA (now defunct).