U.S. Jr. World team selection

thanks, Doris...

oh well, this just means I get to see Keegan skate during Rondy, I doubt he'd have been here for it if he were going to worlds... *silver lining*

I just wish that the skaters who competed at Junior Worlds were the ones who have been competing internationally as Juniors all season. I can understand the US picking skaters who skate as seniors at Nationals, since their system is different from the ISU. But...

Katrina's last junior level competition was in 2006. She's retiring. JW shouldn't be a reward for ending your career, but an opportunity for a Junior level skater to make his or her mark. Mirai, Caroline and Ashley swept the podium at Junior Worlds two years ago. That alone should give the USFS enough indication that they are way past this level. If it's about qualifying for the GP - then they most certainly had the opportunity to do so during their GP series. Caroline doesn't need any help in getting 2GPs - she's ranked highly enough to merit them! Mirai & Ashley already got their opportunity to break into the GP series; I don't feel juniors like Gilles & Maxwell are being given that same shot. They did great during the JGP series, and could easily win, if that's what the US fed wants.

There is a HUGE difference between Ashley's skating and say, Haruka Imai's or Joshi Helgesson's. Ashley is obviously a senior lady, and these girls are not. Maxwell/Gilles/Rizo/etc would fit in much better. Junior Worlds shouldn't be the second class worlds; it should be the culmination of the season for junior-level skaters.

It's easy to say that the US went down the results of Nationals, but that certainly wasn't the case for selecting the alternates, and it hasn't been in the past. If it's about age-eligibility, then Korea should just send Yu-Na, she's still eligible.

(and just so it doesn't seem like I'm picking on the US or the ladies, I don't think Leonova, Gedevanishvili or Rippon should be there - their spots would be better spent on Makarova or Messing)

^ I agree with the post above.

Aren't the categories of junior, novice, intermediate, etc., about level of skating, rather than age? Would a 16-year-old senior competitor enter a novice championship just because there is no rule saying she is too old?

Once the big kids move on to prime time, why would they want to go back to the school yard to beat up the little kids?

If it's about age-eligibility, then Korea should just send Yu-Na, she's still eligible.

Click to expand...

Heck Japan could send Mao to!!!!! I mean after all if they had sent her last year, "surely then" Japan would have there spots this year.......

Mathman said:

^ I agree with the post above.

Aren't the categories of junior, novice, intermediate, etc., about level of skating, rather than age? Would a 16-year-old senior competitor enter a novice championship just because there is no rule saying she is too old?

Once the big kids move on to prime time, why would they want to go back to the school yard to beat up the little kids?

Click to expand...

Skating levels in the US are about skill level, but they're not internationally, where they are by age. That's why it's IMO ok for US skaters who competed as Seniors nationally to compete as Juniors internationally (like Zhang/Flatt/Nagasu last year & Maxwell, Gilles etc this year). I wish it were one big uniform system some times, though - it'd certainly be simpler!

That said, having Caroline & Ashley compete against the rest of the juniors is like having had Mao & Yu-Na compete back in 2007 when Caroline won the World Junior title. There's very little to gain, particularly for Caroline ($$$, pretty much). A competition featuring Ksenia Makarova instead of Alena Leonova, Gilles, Maxwell & Rizo instead of Zhang, Wagner & Hacker, Imai, Suzuki, Helgesson, etc would have been much more interesting because they're at similar skill levels. You said it well, it's like beating up the little kids at a school yard.

2010 Olympic U.S. figure skating team selection procedures

2010 Olympic U.S. figure skating team selection procedures

Do the placements at Junior Worlds dictate the number of entries that a country gets for the Junior Grand Prix? If so, that may be the reason why, especially this year, countries are sending their best hopes. The JGP for 2009/2010 has dropped from 8 events down to 7, so having the maximum number of slots may be more important now than ever before.

Tammi said:

Do the placements at Junior Worlds dictate the number of entries that a country gets for the Junior Grand Prix?

Click to expand...

I believe they do -- something along the order of the top 5 countries in each discipline get 2 (3?) spots in each event of that respective discipline, and then there's some kind of decreasing order... sorry, I don't know more than that. I think the lowest ranking countries get 5 entries for the entire JPG series in that discipline.

-kypma

Thanks kypma, that's what I thought. Sending what could be perceived as "sure bets" to Junior Worlds helps secure those JGP spots for the up and coming Junior skaters. I think USFS might be looking at the bigger picture, although I do feel badly for Alexe Gilles and think she's been the victim of some bad timing.

Kypma said:

I believe they do -- something along the order of the top 5 countries in each discipline get 2 (3?) spots in each event of that respective discipline, and then there's some kind of decreasing order... sorry, I don't know more than that. I think the lowest ranking countries get 5 entries for the entire JPG series in that discipline.

-kypma

Click to expand...

Pretty much right on the money here and these restrictions apply to all disciplines but pairs. This post is just flushing out more details.

In dance the top 5 countries at JW get 2 JGP slots per JGP event. All other countries get one entry per JGP event. Any country hosting an event can send 3 couples to the event they are hosting

In singles the top 5 countriies at JW get 2 JGP slots per JGP event. Countries where their top entry fails to qualify for the free program get 5 JGP slots. Countries 6 - 10 get 8 slots , 11 - 15 get 7 slots and 16-20 get 6 slots provided their top entry made the free skate. Like dance, any hosting country can send 3 entries to the event they are hosting.

As well if any of the top 5 countries are unable to fill all their slots for the JGP, lower finishing countries ( in order of country finish at JW ) may be able to fill those vacant slots

In both singles and dance there is a big dropoff of slots available between those who finish in the top 5 countries at junior worlds and the 6th best country.

In pairs all countries can send 3 pairs to any event and if they are hosting
the event they can send unlimitied number of pairs to the event they are hosting. So JW placement has no effect on JGP slots in pairs.

Of course , since there are only 7 JGP events next season, the rules may change to reflect this.

Tammi said:

Do the placements at Junior Worlds dictate the number of entries that a country gets for the Junior Grand Prix? If so, that may be the reason why, especially this year, countries are sending their best hopes. The JGP for 2009/2010 has dropped from 8 events down to 7, so having the maximum number of slots may be more important now than ever before.

Click to expand...

Go down about a page to the word "Qualifying". You can see the Junior Worlds results, and nothing else, determines the number of entries in the Junior Grand Prix. The top 5 countries get to send 2 competitors / teams to each event. So we ( USA ) were able to give 8 girls 2 events each because Rachael, Caroline and Mirai did so well at Junior Worlds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-2009_ISU_Junior_Grand_Prix

So yes, it would be nice if Alexe, Brittney and Angela could go to Junior Worlds, but by sending cruise missiles to a pillow fight, we make sure the maximum number of girls get to go the Junior GP.

I was just thinking ...... what if results of the previous Junior Grand Prix series determined the entries to the next series? That would eliminate the urgent need to send the strongest age-eligible skaters to Junior Worlds, making it more of a "junior" event.

PolymerBob said:

but by sending cruise missiles to a pillow fight, we make sure the maximum number of girls get to go the Junior GP.

Click to expand...

great analogy