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- Jan 23, 2009
I feel like you have to have previous ice experience to know what's going on in ice dance. There aren't any jumps, and hardly any lifts or spins. I practically passed out on my couch watching Meryl and Charlie on Saturday.
Do laypeople (non-skaters) understand ice dance?
- Thread starter brightphoton
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Passed out from boredom or excitement? I thought they were marvelous. What a wonderful, brilliant program! Their best since Bollywood.
As a "layperson," I probably don't "understand" it but I definitely enjoy it. There's tons of invention once you stop looking for jumps. Show dancing is so popular these days -- DWTS, etc. -- I think ice dance would appeal to the same audience. Why not? It's just a matter of getting the word out about all the great skating dancers.
As a "layperson," I probably don't "understand" it but I definitely enjoy it. There's tons of invention once you stop looking for jumps. Show dancing is so popular these days -- DWTS, etc. -- I think ice dance would appeal to the same audience. Why not? It's just a matter of getting the word out about all the great skating dancers.
It's harder to appreciate ice dancing as a sport because the technical skills that are being judged are less obvious than number of revolutions in the air or whether a jump was landed on one foot -- not the only skills relevant to freestyle, but certainly important ones that are easy for lay viewers to understand.
Lay viewers can appreciate ice dance for its aesthetic qualities, completely apart from results. Either it appeals to you or it doesn't. If you find some teams who appeal to you, you can root for them on that basis.
And of course one can learn to understand some of the technical details that go into the judging and that therefore drive many of the aesthetic choices, but it's very hard to do so from one's couch. You'd have to actually go to the rink to watch in person (or to take lessons). If it doesn't grab you in the first place, the motivation wouldn't be there.
Lay viewers can appreciate ice dance for its aesthetic qualities, completely apart from results. Either it appeals to you or it doesn't. If you find some teams who appeal to you, you can root for them on that basis.
And of course one can learn to understand some of the technical details that go into the judging and that therefore drive many of the aesthetic choices, but it's very hard to do so from one's couch. You'd have to actually go to the rink to watch in person (or to take lessons). If it doesn't grab you in the first place, the motivation wouldn't be there.
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- Jan 23, 2009
To be completely honest, I don't really like regular dance either. I like dances that are fast and exciting. The slow, deeply emotional ones - not so much.
The thing with Meryl and Charlie is that I don't know what they're doing. They're just holding hands and lifting one foot up and lifting the other foot up and lifting one foot up, and etc. Sometimes they twizzle.
The thing with Meryl and Charlie is that I don't know what they're doing. They're just holding hands and lifting one foot up and lifting the other foot up and lifting one foot up, and etc. Sometimes they twizzle.
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One of the most popular amateur (and later professional) skating acts ever was Torvill & Dean. In fact, 8,000 people showed up in Hungary to watch them skate their CD's at Europeans. T&D's coach found the janitor mesmerized by T&D, dancing with his broom in emulation.
Most of us can dance a little, so we can all appreciate dancing, whether it is on ice or on the floor, especially if you love music. We might not, however, be able to appreciate the scoring.
Most of us can dance a little, so we can all appreciate dancing, whether it is on ice or on the floor, especially if you love music. We might not, however, be able to appreciate the scoring.
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I think the elements have to stick out more which makes it easier to identify the elements and it's all less an integrated program now. Like the curve lifts and rotational lifts, pair spins, twizzles are all right in your face! BEcause of how it is covered on TV and the way to get levels circular step and straight step and midline or whatever all basically look the same in a lot of ways.
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- Dec 16, 2006
Dance, Singles/Pairs are like differing genres of literature. Singles/Pairs are like prose--easy to understand, you have the story triangle, you have a protagonist, etc. Dance is like poetry--its message is less obvious, but it is there. Is one harder than the other? Both are difficult, in different ways.
It used to bother me when Artur Dmitriev used to say pairs was THE hardest discipline, because you need the jumps of a good singles skater, and the footwork of a good ice dancer. I have yet to find a top pair that can out-twizzle the 8th place dance team at worlds. Artur, when he competed, had the dramatics of ice dancers (at the time, dance was very very dramatic), but not their feet.
It used to bother me when Artur Dmitriev used to say pairs was THE hardest discipline, because you need the jumps of a good singles skater, and the footwork of a good ice dancer. I have yet to find a top pair that can out-twizzle the 8th place dance team at worlds. Artur, when he competed, had the dramatics of ice dancers (at the time, dance was very very dramatic), but not their feet.
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If you want to learn basic skating skills, the best teachers are ice dancers.
It's worth knowing in this vein, that the first US singles skater to score a level 4 for a step sequence under COP was Charlie White, competing in Junior men's.
It's worth knowing in this vein, that the first US singles skater to score a level 4 for a step sequence under COP was Charlie White, competing in Junior men's.
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But it's his lightning fast feet in the step sequence that is truly eye poppin'
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- Nov 19, 2010
Well...that's what dancers do. The lift up one foot, then lift up the other.
And sometimes one lifts the other's both feet off the ice.
Blue Dog, that's a wonderful metaphor!
I certainly don't understand ice dancing as I should, which is why I'm so grateful for knowledgeable posters like Doris. But I do think I get a lot out of ice dancing, and I love the variety of approaches that seem possible. There are the quicksilver dancers and the more romantic couples. I retain a soft spot, for instance, for the matchless passionate storytelling of Klimova and Ponomarenko, the tomboyish elegance of Denkova in the arms of her partner, Staviskiy, and of course the innovative work of Torvill and Dean. (For example, I hope everyone has seen their version of "Missing," which Dean choreographed and the Duchesnays made famous.) I'm thrilled that so many North American teams have suddenly figured out the secret heart of ice dancing. As Blue Dog says, it's poetry. It has many secrets and mysteries, and it sneaks up on you.
What DWTS (and other shows like Dancing on Ice and Battle of the Blade) has that ice dancing lacks is that the judges get to give on camera verbal feedback to the teams. Commentators are nice for skating during the performance, but it's hard for casual fans to concentrate on the skating and the commentary at the same time. Most people just want the commentators to be quiet altogether. The comments and criticisms from the judges are often very relatable and introduce enough dance lingo into the process to expand the audience's knowledge. The audience may not agree (and often don't) but they can understand why certain scores are given. Also, you get to see the previous week's rehearsal as the dances are created from the ground up. The things they do in the competition make sense because you see why and how they are incorporated in practice. Obviously, that can't be donewith judges in Olympic eligible competition, but maybe one day more vid clips of the practices would be included.
What's done less often these days than in the past are educational segments during competitions. They may have been hokey at times, but they were really valuable in explaining all disciplines. ABC and CBC both had great content. I've found these CBC clips of Jean Senft explaining ice dance from the early 90s to be very helpful in developing my understanding of the discipline. Since she was a judge, her comments carry more weight than a commentator. It would be nice if such segments could be used more often.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXaseVyZSL0
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- Nov 22, 2009
I can figure out the major stuff but not yet the fine points of scoring dance, but having tested through some of the lower USFS levels of dance, it is not nearly as easy as it looks to get things smooth. I'd find it easier to learn brain surgery than to accomplish these elite free dances! One thing I often do during a second watching of a program is focus only on what their feet are doing (try to ignore the upper body stuff). Whether standard speed or slow-mo. THAT's when you realize just how much of a sport ice dancing really is.
IMO, if you see good singles and pairs skaters who have ever done ice dance, even if only on a test/practice basis up to middle or upper middle levels (like USFS Silver or PreGold), you can see the difference in both skating skills and in musicality/presentation, vs those who have not.
IMO, if you see good singles and pairs skaters who have ever done ice dance, even if only on a test/practice basis up to middle or upper middle levels (like USFS Silver or PreGold), you can see the difference in both skating skills and in musicality/presentation, vs those who have not.
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- Jan 7, 2011
I am cherry picking here, but I think even audiences completely new to figure skating as a whole were wowed by T/D's Bolero and Virtue/Moir's Mahler at the Olympics. Would they understand all the intricacies of it? Nope! Do they have to to enjoy it? Nope!
I don't need to know KFC's secret ingredients to enjoy their chicken. Same deal here.
I don't need to know KFC's secret ingredients to enjoy their chicken. Same deal here.
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- Jun 27, 2003
I've never skated other than rental skates around a rink twice (14 years apart)... ice dance is something I totally understand. I may not know all of the names of the steps, but I get what makes one team better than the next. Jumps does not make the sport great, sorry, I've seen singles skaters skate programs without a single jump and it's ten times better than one of those jump loaded programs we have to deal with in competition by 60% of the competitive field. "Hardly and lifts" boggles my mind, they typically have more lifts in a competition than the pairs...
I learned by watching and getting rid of that stupid notion that it was somehow less than the other three disciplines. I sat down with others who knew about it and would sit and explain what I was watching, and I was a member of this board and held onto most anything Doris wrote about it
I learned by watching and getting rid of that stupid notion that it was somehow less than the other three disciplines. I sat down with others who knew about it and would sit and explain what I was watching, and I was a member of this board and held onto most anything Doris wrote about it
:thumbsup:
BTW, totally agree that with a little patience and time, learning ice dance can be learned easily and can be very fun.
I think as a "layperson" the thing that got me to understand ice dance was just looking at how they skate and their edging. While you have some single skaters with very good skating skills, they wouldn't hold a candle to the ice dancers. The fact is that skating skills is "nice" even "highly praised" in singles/pairs. In my view good skating skills is an absolute requirement in Ice Dance, at least in this current COP system.
But even pre-COP, while some terrible skaters got to the medal stand with flashy programs, it usually was the ones with great skating skills that blazed their way to the top.
In my one opinion, it's the one area where you compulsory figure fans can still see figures, of a different kind of course! And that's the beauty of ice dance, seeing those deep edges, those beautiful patterns.
My husband, who doesn't follow skating, got it right away. He looked at some programs and said, "It must be hard to keep such smooth edges when you're going really fast and doing all those lifts and spins"
Well I would tend to agree.
But even pre-COP, while some terrible skaters got to the medal stand with flashy programs, it usually was the ones with great skating skills that blazed their way to the top.
In my one opinion, it's the one area where you compulsory figure fans can still see figures, of a different kind of course! And that's the beauty of ice dance, seeing those deep edges, those beautiful patterns.
My husband, who doesn't follow skating, got it right away. He looked at some programs and said, "It must be hard to keep such smooth edges when you're going really fast and doing all those lifts and spins"
Well I would tend to agree.
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