2013WC gold speculation; how does that set up the Sochi results?

Ksenia is elegant compared to Surya. I grew to respect Surya but her stroking was like pumping. Is there a top skater who had worse basic skating than Surya, ever? Surya was the Cirque du Solleil/gymnast on skates. She had an amazing backstory and her mom....such a character. I loved her back flips landed on one leg. She did very well in those money days with COI. She skated at the best time to make the hay.

chuckm said:

I don't think her age had anything to do with it. Michelle was already dealing with hip pain beginning around 2002 and she may not have been as physically confident as she had been earlier in her career. As the pain got progressively worse, she phased out the 3 loop and stopped attempting 3/3s.

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Did Michelle ever phase out the triple-loop? I don't remember that. I remember Michelle as always having the full set of triples (except, of course, the triple axel) but not the 3-3 after 2001.

Well at the end Michelle had trouble with the double axel and triple loop. It was so so so sad to see her just sort of peter out. She should have retired in 2002 OR 2003.

Um MK won her 5th WC in 2003 with Aranzuez, or am I wrong?

skateluvr said:

Um MK won her 5th WC in 2003 with Aranzuez, or am I wrong?

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Yes. With all triples minus the axel. In her "watered-down" program in a 2005 cheesefest before the Olympics, she did all triples but the loop and axel.

I am pretty sure that Michelle continued to use the triple loop, usually as the first jump in her LP, through the 2003-2004 season. She landed a dandy at 2004 U,S, Nationals (Tosca). Here she is at 2004 Worlds. Although she missed her triple loop in the qualifying round, in the LP it was the the first jump in her performance right after they chased the streaker off the ice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zir_Bj7Dw8E

She did omit the triple loop in some of the cheesefests, but she used it in every LP up until her final year of competition, 2004-2005 (Bolero).

By the way, Michelle did do a triple-trople in the qualifying round at 2002 Worlds.

If she had retired after 2002, true, it might have been better for her health, but we would have missed out on two of the finest performances of her career -- the Aranjuez at 2003 Worlds mentioned by Skateluvr and the 2004 Tosca at U.S. Nationals. (Also The Feeling Begins SP, white costume. :yes: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41dwku2l12E

skateluvr said:

Um MK won her 5th WC in 2003 with Aranzuez, or am I wrong?

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Yes. With all triples minus the axel. In her "watered-down" program in a 2005 cheesefest before the Olympics, she did all triples but the loop and axel.

jenaj said:

Did Michelle ever phase out the triple-loop? I don't remember that. I remember Michelle as always having the full set of triples (except, of course, the triple axel) but not the 3-3 after 2001.

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She did phase it out in 05. She did one last 3-3 in competition, at the 2002 WC's Q round.

Skater Boy said:

Well at the end Michelle had trouble with the double axel and triple loop. It was so so so sad to see her just sort of peter out. She should have retired in 2002 OR 2003.

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Skater Boy, for your enjoyment and prematurely retiring the kween please watch 'Tosca" 2004 at US Nationals. For me, it was one of her three great skates. WC version was also wonderful, but Shizuka was on the scene by then and Irina was still amazing. Tosca is mature, MK, fierce and out to prove she was still among the very best. I love it- so glad she did not retire in 2002 or 2003. Looking back, I think she could have gone out in 2004 with her head held high. 2005's Bolero is not a fave of mine but she hardly crawled off the ice. MK never reached pathetic like a couple skaters I will not mention as they had hopes and dreams unfulfilled.

With her pain issue and seeing Shizuka do 3x3x3 in practice, she was wise to forget the Olympics. It was tough. I don't think we will ever see a lady win 5 world chamionships under demanding CoP but you never know.

Skater Boy said:

Well at the end Michelle had trouble with the double axel and triple loop. It was so so so sad to see her just sort of peter out. She should have retired in 2002 OR 2003.

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If she had, we never would have seen Tosca at US Nationals, her most passionate and most popular program (on YouTube, at least).

blue dog said:

She did phase it out in 05. She did one last 3-3 in competition, at the 2002 WC's Q round.

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I guess I don't consider leaving it out of the last year of her 10-plus years of competition phasing it out. I do remember her 3-3 at the QR in 2002.

True about Tosca but she was off the podium in the end and it was just so sad; she didn't seem to understand or learn COP and I wanted MK to go out with a bang not a wimper. Does she even skate any more; I can't seem to find her. And to be honest she didn't need the loop or axel (well in the short) because she was MK - queen, royalty. She had the it quality. I think she could have learned COP but she ran out of time.

Jaana said:

at

Maybe, but I think that her mistake was that she gave her all out in US Nationals and that kind of performance is extremely hard to repeat a month later. Ilia Kulik was first to skate in the final group and he won. In my opinion it is a very good place to skate really well and scare the rest, LOL.

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Brian Boitano also skated first. In many respects, without knowing what anyone else has done, all you can do is lay it out on the ice. Your biggest competition is yourself

As for the subject matter of this thread....

LADIES

2009: I don’t think people realize just how oddly perfect 2009 (and the quad leading up to it) matched the Olympics. The world junior title champions of 2005 and 2006 were the silver and gold medalists in Vancouver. The narrative of the quad was Mao vs Yu-na, and that’s what we saw. Except, not really. 2009 saw Kim climaxing perfectly, setting World records at four competitions in the space of a year. She pulled away from Mao, and we saw that with a remarkable 20+ victory in Vancouver. Considering that the ladies event in Vancouver was freakishly strong, that’s amazing. 2009 also set up Rochette as a plausible medal contender, saw a resurgent Miki on the podium, saw Kostner flop at Worlds (like she would at the Olympics)

2013? A lot more muddled. For all of Kostner’s success in the last season, she feels like a Buttle-esque champion. Everything came together at the right time and quite strongly. But she wasn’t quite dominant: losing to Tuktamisheva and Czisny early in the season and having to come from behind at Worlds. Buttle had a worse 07/08 season, but dominated at worlds more convincingly. I’d be genuinely surprised if she repeated. I think 2013 will be about Wagner, Suzuki, and the Russian ladies duking it out (my brain says that Sotnikova emerges stronger from this season, but it also cautions that Tuktamisheva has Plushenko like nerves and desire to compete). Leonova refuses to be a placeholder, and she’s a wildcard (if SHE were to win in London.... well, whoa)

MEN

2009: After missing the podium (2007) and the event (2008), Lysacek wins a home worlds and is instantly set-up as a plausible OGM (though most of us didn’t think so at the time). Chan becomes a world medalist, also setting himself up as a possible candidate in Vancouver (something we all agreed on). On the other hand, a startling four of the top six Olympic men weren’t even at Worlds 2009 (Takahashi, Lambiel, Plushenko and Wier). Joubert’s World consistency (medalling at four consecutive worlds) falters when it comes to Olympic ice (indeed, he and Kostner end up at the exact same spot: 16th). Lower on the ranks, it set up Abbott and Chipeur quite nicely going into the Olympic season

2013? Chan and the Japanese men are pulling away from the rest. Yeah, we might have one of the young European guns sneaking in here and there (Fernandez, Brezina, Gachinski, Amodio) but it doesn’t seem to happening for them for a sustained period. Time will tell if the WTT represents an actual change in the judging or if it was just a one-off. I wonder if Takahashi will be able to withstand Hanyu’s onslaught. We’ll see how serious Plushenko and Weir are (we already “know” that Lysacek isn’t.)

Recent dramatic events make dance more difficult to talk about, and I have to reanalyze what I wrote for that discipline, so pairs and dance for later.

Skater Boy said:

True about Tosca but she was off the podium in the end and it was just so sad; she didn't seem to understand or learn COP and I wanted MK to go out with a bang not a wimper. Does she even skate any more; I can't seem to find her. And to be honest she didn't need the loop or axel (well in the short) because she was MK - queen, royalty. She had the it quality. I think she could have learned COP but she ran out of time.

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She was off the podium (in fourth) by a fraction of a point after suspect scoring in the short program. Michelle was hampered by injuries at the end of her career and still did pretty well for herself. As for COP, thank goodness we never had to see Michelle do a foot-grabbing spiral or slow and labored footwork.