Can Ashley Wagner keep up with the New US Ladies

Mrs. P · Mar 29, 2014

One had to consider that Ashley was a much hotter mess in 2011 when she finished sixth at nationals and came back and proved everyone wrong the following year.

Ashley has not been without struggles this season but it's nothing compared to what she went through a few years back. She can handle the challenge.

(Although maybe personally, it was more of a challenge given the personal changes in her life).

As I said, if Gracie wants to stay USA No. 1 she's going to actually have to defend it.

jaylee · Mar 29, 2014

pointyourtoe said:
Ashley, I know you can do it, just train harder to get that 3-3 consistent and fully rotated :agree:

I think she trained that 3/3 as much as she could and she never really had it. Not going for it in the FS allowed her to breathe freely for the first time all season. It's been like a weight, really, because it clearly took a lot out of her in the FS.

She needs the 3/3 more in the SP than in the FS, but not if she gets the <<.

Violetti · Mar 29, 2014

I like Ashley. Her programs are memorable, at least some of them, something dramatic. I still remember her black swan program. I would like to see her competing for some years still. I think there should be good skaters who are over 20 years old (22-26), too, adults and not only the young skaters.

cohen-esque · Mar 29, 2014

jaylee said:
I think she trained that 3/3 as much as she could and she never really had it. Not going for it in the FS allowed her to breathe freely for the first time all season. It's been like a weight, really, because it clearly took a lot out of her in the FS.

She needs the 3/3 more in the SP than in the FS, but not if she gets the <<.

I actually think should train the 3T-3T for the short, since it's probably easier for her to land, and keep the 2A-3T for the FS. Hopefully then her scores will go up, since she basically loses 10 points over the competition just on the 3F-3T.

ranjake · Mar 29, 2014

Mrs. P said:
I personally don't think she should've gotten a < on her 2A-3T. But that's my opinion.

Like any other athlete, Ashley will have to figure out how to capitalize on her strengths to make up for any deficits she may have in her skating. One thing I like about Ashley is that she's willing to take responsibility for her skating, so one thing is for sure she will make a good effort to stay competitive. I don't think she should give up on the 3F-3T. Jason Brown took three seasons with the 3A and it's still a work in progress, I don't see why Ashley shouldn't keep trying to work on the 3F-3T.

And also the other lesson is nothing is a sure thing. Ashley can't control what her competitors do, she just needs to do what works for her.

Well said. Ashley is a fighter. If she's not the most athletically, naturally gifted- I appreciate her fight. I enjoyed her performance much more than most others today, and I think her PCS at least should have been rewarded. She should stop when she wants to stop. I hated how dismissive Tara and Johnny were of her wish to continue- Tara who was done at 15- and Johnny who attempted a late comeback. If she doesn't try, she definitely won't be successful. If she keeps trying, she just might. I enjoy the mature performance- a lot of nuances Ashley has that I don't see in the wonderkids. I hope she stays as long as she wants too. I also think her technique is scrutinized when others' mistakes slip by.

millie · Mar 29, 2014

sky_fly20 said:
yet Gold placed ahead at Worlds
so who is to say Gracie wont beat Wagner in GP medals next season ?

I wonder how Gracie is feeling now that Ashley will be skating in the Gala and not her? Someone must have liked Ashley over your golden girl....

UnsaneLily87 · Mar 29, 2014

I think she's still solidly #2 and will be for a while...and has shown she can pass Gracie if Gracie slips up. I'm more interested in who's on her tail. Edmunds acquitted herself well this season, is there anyone that could be pushing her for the #3 spot? Karen Chen is obviously not ready, and Mirai will never make another world team.

Mrs. P · Mar 29, 2014

ranjake said:
Well said. Ashley is a fighter. If she's not the most athletically, naturally gifted- I appreciate her fight. I enjoyed her performance much more than most others today, and I think her PCS at least should have been rewarded. She should stop when she wants to stop. I hated how dismissive Tara and Johnny were of her wish to continue- Tara who was done at 15- and Johnny who attempted a late comeback. If she doesn't try, she definitely won't be successful. If she keeps trying, she just might. I enjoy the mature performance- a lot of nuances Ashley has that I don't see in the wonderkids. I hope she stays as long as she wants too. I also think her technique is scrutinized when others' mistakes slip by.

I was thinking about a song I heard while I did my 12-mile run today....(my legs hurrrttt): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co3w_ZxcO1U&feature=kp

Here are the lyrics:

You'll never fly, if you're too scared of the heights
You'll never live if you're just too scared to die
Everybody wants heaven... i know
but darling freedom ain't free, its a long road
You'll never find your place up there in the sky..
If you never say goodbye.

For some reason, I thought of Ashley at that moment. It seems people are so apt in telling her to give up and not bother and as this song points out, you can't succeed if you don't try. I think when Ashley looks back on her career, she can be proud that she was bold and not timid and went for everything she got.

pangtongfan · Mar 29, 2014

UnsaneLily87 said:
I think she's still solidly #2 and will be for a while...and has shown she can pass Gracie if Gracie slips up. I'm more interested in who's on her tail. Edmunds acquitted herself well this season, is there anyone that could be pushing her for the #3 spot? Karen Chen is obviously not ready, and Mirai will never make another world team.

I am interested too in seeing the development Edmunds makes for her. IMO it will be her, not Wagner, who challenges Gold as U.S #1 in the coming years if anyone is going to, even if Wagner for now is still #2. Chen is also an intriguing prospect, but I think it will take her atleast a couple years.

I agree Mirai is not ever making another world team.

ranjake · Mar 29, 2014

That' s really pretty, Mrs. P- and I think apt for what I see in Ashley. And 12 miles???! Awesome!

R.D. · Mar 29, 2014

Wagner should stick around if she feels she has unfinished business, but must cope with the reality that she is slipping in the world standings despite her (seemingly) best efforts...and BTW, she isn't getting any younger, either...

I said in another thread that she is destined to be the perennial "almost girl"...no chance of ever winning a world medal unless there are some imminent retirements (which don't even seem certain at this point, go figure).

Then again, it was 3 years ago that she stumbled to 6th at US Nats and most thought she was done at that point (not me). It remains to be seen whether she has any more tricks up her sleeve, but it's high time the US women get back on the world podium. Wagner has been to worlds four times (I think more than any other US lady post-MK/SC) and still has nothing to show for it. We should look elsewhere if we want a medal contender. Even though Gold blew a great chance here :bang:

, she (GG) may have another shot in the future.

What should Wagner do? Well, I think smart strategy is key here...she is obviously limited in her abilities compared to the top skaters, so she needs to figure out how to use the best of what she's got and construct two programs that sell her in the best light given those constraints. Sort of like what Kostner's done. Then, just skate them to the best of her ability and then hope for an off-day from everyone else (and a couple retirements, too).

____
Also, at '14 worlds...even if she matched Gold and scored 70 in her SP...with the same FS she still would have been 4th. No way did she have a shot at the podium

emily_sk8xx · Mar 29, 2014

Unless Ashley gets a consistent fully rotated 3-3, PCS starts being judged correctly and not as an extension of TES, or Gracie becomes a bit of a headcase again, it's pretty much all over for Ashley because Polina will likely surpass her sometime within the next season and there will probably be some new Seniors that will make Ashley have to fight for the #3 spot. I don't think Ashley will ever become US #1 again and that's a shame because I like Ashley. Unfortunately it's pretty much out of her control. She's not as naturally gifted as some of the other skaters and a consistent rotated 3-3 might just not be possible. It's a shame that PCS is not judged correctly. Ashley's IN and PE should be head and shoulders above Julia's and Gracie's.

Jammers · Mar 29, 2014

millie said:
I wonder how Gracie is feeling now that Ashley will be skating in the Gala and not her? Someone must have liked Ashley over your golden girl....

Why should it matter? Gracie got to skate at the Olympic gala which is more prestigious anyways and Wagner didn't.

R.D. · Mar 29, 2014

Wagner does not need to win Nationals to be in the mix. 3rd will still make the team (I think?!)

Next year she will not have the burden of being defending champ so if she stays injury-free, she'll be in a good position to fight again. If there's one positive thing about Wagner it's that she fights for it and does not give up easily. And Gold will be the one with that burden of defending champ next year...her worlds FS showed she is still prone to nerves, so I wouldn't get too comfortable with my position if I were GG.

drivingmissdaisy · Mar 29, 2014

I don't know what the motivation is for her continue. Perhaps there is some unfinished business as RD mentioned but at this point she isn't going to accomplish anything she hasn't already. I suppose she has an outside shot of medaling at Worlds in the next year or two because we sometimes see podium surprises when the favorites falter. However, the < and two-foot landings that plagued her before seem to be back and those mistakes are too costly now.

pangtongfan · Mar 29, 2014

drivingmissdaisy said:
I don't know what the motivation is for her continue. Perhaps there is some unfinished business as RD mentioned but at this point she isn't going to accomplish anything she hasn't already. I suppose she has an outside shot of medaling at Worlds in the next year or two because we sometimes see podium surprises when the favorites falter. However, the < and two-foot landings that plagued her before seem to be back and those mistakes are too costly now.

I think it is hard to let go of the world podium dream when she was so close in 2012 and seemed at one point to be heading there in the 2013 season. I dont blame her for continuing another couple years to try for it, I just dont think she will ever get it is all.

R.D. · Mar 29, 2014

pangtongfan said:
I think it is hard to let go of the world podium dream when she was so close in 2012 and seemed at one point to be heading there in the 2013 season. I dont blame her for continuing another couple years to try for it, I just dont think she will ever get it is all.

Yeah, basically. This season for her, I think, was a step down from 2013 considering the 1st half of the season was a bit bumpy for her. I think the main question is, has she peaked?

I thought she had already, but if her FS at worlds is any indication...may not be time to completely dismiss her yet. Still, she is stuck in this 4th-7th rut in world standing and if she ever wants to get out of it, she'll have to get lucky I think.

Mrs. P · Mar 29, 2014

Or maybe she enjoys competing? Ashley has always been one to attack and go for things. Some people just enjoy the thrill of competition.

R.D. said:
Yeah, basically. This season for her, I think, was a step down from 2013 considering the 1st half of the season was a bit bumpy for her. I think the main question is, has she peaked?

I thought she had already, but if her FS at worlds is any indication...may not be time to completely dismiss her yet. Still, she is stuck in this 4th-7th rut in world standing and if she ever wants to get out of it, she'll have to get lucky I think.

Sure; but you can bet she'll be working on that 3-3 off-season. Let's consider the fact that though she struggled with it at season's end, she at least was attempting it and has a sense of what it's like to do it in competition. Last year, she was virtually working from scratch....

WeakAnkles · Mar 29, 2014

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
She can! I mean she wasn't landing 3-3 the past few seasons prior to this one and landed a couple earlier in the year. And obviously Kostner regained her 3-3 too.

This is a huge confidence boost and that FS proves she won't fizzle at the end of the season as in previous years. To anyone thinking she's done, I think the opposite.

Unfortunately for Gold, she is fizzle here. Two falls in her past two competitions, and lip/axel issues. She can certainly win worlds one day but she's got a ways to go.

I wonder if that has anything to do with training the way Rafael Harutyunyan wanted her to train. Apparently she followed his much stricter training regimen since just before the Olympics, and the difference from Nationals was astounding. If she followed the same training regimen for an entire season, the improvement might be amazing.

Mrs. P · Mar 29, 2014

WeakAnkles said:
I wonder if that has anything to do with training the way Rafael Harutyunyan wanted her to train. Apparently she followed his much stricter training regimen since just before the Olympics, and the difference from Nationals was astounding. If she followed the same training regimen for an entire season, the improvement might be amazing.

I saw some clear improvements from Nationals too! Especially the flow in and out of jumps compared to earlier in the season. The 3-3 was a struggled, but I was encouraged to see her 2A-3T was actually pretty close.

Can Ashley Wagner keep up with the New US Ladies

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

jaylee

Violetti

cohen-esque

ranjake

millie

UnsaneLily87

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

ranjake

R.D.

emily_sk8xx

Jammers

R.D.

drivingmissdaisy

pangtongfan

Match Penalty

R.D.

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

WeakAnkles

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

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