Question about Rippon jump

So I was watching Midori's old video today and saw Midori does a double jump(it was a part of choreography) just like Rippon's lutz. Does anyone know if it's actually Adam Rippon who started the jump? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgIvUjCrlgY

I don't know if she started it but Midori was doing double Lutz out of steps with both arms above her head in the SP. Rippon definitely didn't originate the idea but I assume he is at least the first to do the 3Lutz this way.

If that's true, it shouldn't be called Rippon lutz. whether double or triple, he wasn't the first person to do it..so Don't you think?

I'm sorry, but can someone explain to me what a Rippon jump looks like. I know what a Tano jump looks like, but Rippon jump, I don't know

Warwick360 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spyhUMUEcaU

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So basically both hands in the air making an "A?"

ks777 said:

If that's true, it shouldn't be called Rippon lutz. whether double or triple, he wasn't the first person to do it..so Don't you think?

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I don't think so because Denise Biellmann wasn't the first person to do the Biellmann spin/position, but she did it frequently enough for people to associate the position with her. Having said that, since Rippon hasn't done it frequently enough on the international stage, if Gracie starts doing it in competitions then I will not have a problem if people start calling it a Gold lutz because personally I think it has a better ring to it

cheerknithanson said:

So basically both hands in the air making an "A?"

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I don't think an "A" necessarily. Just both hands in the air is enough I think

Yeah but Midori was doing it like 25 years ago..

Skaters had been doing double jumps with one or both arms overhead for years, and probably singles before that. Especially in the short programs in the 1980s and (for ladies) early 1990s when doubles as the jump out of steps were required even from top skaters who could do several triples with ease.

When Boitano made 3Lz with one arm overhead into a signature move, it got called by his name, and "tano" became a shorthand way of referring to one arm overhead just because it's shorter than saying (or writing in notes) "1 arm overhead." I think some people have referred to that as "liberty position" (like Statue of Liberty), which could also be abbreviated.

For both arms overhead I often write "5th" as in ballet 5th position, even if the shape is more angled than curved as in Rippon's case.

Michael Chack used to do triple toe with both arms on his hips, which commentators sometimes referred to as "Chack toe."

I think there are several drawbacks to using names of skaters' signature moves as generic names for the move, or the variation.

When other skaters do similar but not identical variations, or do the same variation on a different move, is it appropriate to use the name of the skater who popularized it? Or do we get into debates about whether skater B's version is really a "true" example of A's signature. E.g., Denise Biellmann (who was not the first skater ever to pull her foot over her head in a spin) had two variations of foot-over-head spins referred to as full Biellmann and half Biellmann. As other skaters do different variations that are not identical to either, or closer to the "half Biellmann" version, are they still "Biellmann spins"?
And what about positions where the skater pulls foot overhead in a similar manner during a spiral or a lift, not a spin at all? Should it be called Biellmann position, regardless of how similar the position is to Denise's?

Points of reference vary across time and space. Commentators and consequently fan and/or the skating community itself one country may refer to a move by the name of a prominent skater who is often covered in that country's media -- usually a compatriot. So the name will take root in that country's fan culture. In parts of the world that don't get the same commentary, who maybe rarely get to see the skater in question, the name won't take root and other terms for the same move might become more popular elsewhere.
Going back to a much earlier basic example, Rittberger vs. loop jump.

A basic move defined primarily by what the blades are doing, such as Axel or Salchow or Lutz or Ina Bauer or Charlotte, may be named after the skater who first invented it or popularized it. If the move then becomes a staple of the basic skating vocabulary, the name will stick.

If the skater who popularizes the move is prominent enough internationally (e.g., a world and Olympic champion like Boitano, or world champ like Biellmann, both of whom also had prominent pro careers), the name is more likely to stick.

In the internet age, fans in other countries are more likely to be aware of skaters whose international careers are relatively brief or well short of major podiums.

But if the skater's name recognition fades by the time s/he retires, while the variation continues to be used -- in a continuous tradition emulating that skater, or reinvented by new skaters looking for their own variations, or as part of a tradition that was already going strong before one skater took it to prominence at the elite level -- then the earlier skater's name may mean nothing to later generations of fans and young skaters, and they'll make up their own words to define it. Or name it after the next prominent skater who starts doing it at the world level.

FWIW, icenetwork uses the eponym "Rippon lutz."

cheerknithanson said:

I'm sorry, but can someone explain to me what a Rippon jump looks like. I know what a Tano jump looks like, but Rippon jump, I don't know

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IN's video of another example of a Rippon lutz from Rippon himself.

ks777 said:

If that's true, it shouldn't be called Rippon lutz. whether double or triple, he wasn't the first person to do it..so Don't you think?

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I do a double toe with both arms clasped behind my back (and a double salchow with my right arm behind me and left hand in front of me, similar to pairs throws). Does that mean I get to have them named after me?

I think it's safe to call a Rippon lutz a Rippon lutz based on him competing it as a triple and it being very obviously his signature move. There are several women who have done double jumps with arms aloft (Kerrigan did her required double lutz like that), but it was a simple maneuver and not really worthy of naming it after one particular person.