The best technician in the world

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 15, 2016

On the ladies side I'd put Kim or Ito. Asada is too inconsistent and has a flutz and UR issues. Kim doesn't have a triple axel but delivers her elements with effortlessness and elegance. Ito isn't particularly elegant a technician but man she can jump and I can't recall her ever underrotating a jump in her senior career.

CanadianSkaterGuy · Oct 15, 2016

Pairs obviously Duhamel and Radford given their difficulty is through the roof. Sui and Han are a close second/virtual tie but their quad throw isn't as consistent and they have SBS issues - on easier SBS jumps at that.

V/T usually does their elements with great quality but they are easier elements than the Canadians/Chinese - for a couple years they were arguably the best technicians.

For a while I thought the Zhangs were some of the best technicians - capable of a quad throw, SBS 3S and 2A+3T (which is just cray considering the competition's SBS jumps). Even before D/R these two were pushing the sport technically.

Don't know enough about dance but I've always been impressed by Davis/White's technical ability and some of the avant garde programs/technical displays by Canadian teams B/K and D/L.

gravy · Oct 15, 2016

CanadianSkaterGuy said:
On the ladies side I'd put Kim or Ito. Asada is too inconsistent and has a flutz and UR issues. Kim doesn't have a triple axel but delivers her elements with effortlessness and elegance. Ito isn't particularly elegant a technician but man she can jump and I can't recall her ever underrotating a jump in her senior career.

I'd throw Kostner in as well. People usually forget that she's a strong technician because she's known primarily as the PCS queen, but all her jumps are textbook; she has no edge issues on her flips and lutzes and she can do the 3Lo.

Blades of Passion · Oct 15, 2016

It's definitely Hanyu, he has everything. If Plushenko was 10-15 years younger, then likely it would be him right now.

4everchan · Oct 15, 2016

Blades of Passion said:
It's definitely Hanyu, he has everything. If Plushenko was 10-15 years younger, then likely it would be him right now.

he gets edge calls on his flip... to me, that's a technical flaw... not belittling everything he has going for him, just saying he is not perfect.

jace93 · Oct 15, 2016

4everchan said:
he gets edge calls on his flip... to me, that's a technical flaw... not belittling everything he has going for him, just saying he is not perfect.

Actually, in the last 2 season he only got an unclear edge once at the 2015 wc. Just that once. I'd say he has pretty much fixed his flip...

Blades of Passion · Oct 15, 2016

I assumed he was talking about Plushenko? Hanyu doesn't have a Flip edge problem. If they were trying to talk about Hanyu, then that's a very sad attempt at trying to talk down a Chan rival.

4everchan · Oct 15, 2016

so you mean in 2015-16 season no calls... that's one season. Just saying. Not two. That's good. Still, I wouldn't call his lutz and flip the models to follow.

I think this thread is misleading in many ways.

There is a difference between the greatest skater of technical content in competition and the greatest technician based on the pure quality of movement.

I see it coming from another perspective, which is from the performing arts milieu. Which triple flip would be the model for everyone to follow? The one emulated by next generations?

Yuzu is excellent at everything which makes his strength. It doesn't mean he is the role model in a pure aesthetic version for everything he does.

jace93 said:
Actually, in the last 2 season he only got an unclear edge once at the 2015 wc. Just that once. I'd say he has pretty much fixed his flip...

sammyott · Oct 15, 2016

Kolyada's 3Lz is to die for.

Raomina · Oct 15, 2016

4everchan said:
he gets edge calls on his flip... to me, that's a technical flaw... not belittling everything he has going for him, just saying he is not perfect.

Honestly, no one is perfect in everything. I don't think BoP means that Hanyu is perfect in everything either (hopefully) so I don't think having the 'best model' for everything is relevant to this. I think best overall technician doesn't equal perfection in every single element but rather the best average, imo, since it's comparative.

I think if we can rank the skaters for the different elements and calculate an average ranking, we would be able to quantify this more unbiasedly.

4everchan · Oct 15, 2016

Raomina said:
Honestly, no one is perfect in everything.

Totally agree

that's why I don't really like these threads. And in my humble opinion, jumps are not the only technical element worth noting here.

TGee · Oct 15, 2016

jace93 said:
Actually, in the last 2 season he only got an unclear edge once at the 2015 wc. Just that once. I'd say he has pretty much fixed his flip...

I'm not inclined to make too much of a deficiency in one or the other. As long as one of the two is clean.

Most skaters seem have a natural preference for coming in on one edge or the other, and end up with either a clean flip or a clean lutz, not both. And unfortunately many have neither, as has been the subject of a recent thread.

Hanyu's lutz is very pure from the video I've seen. That he has been able improve his flip and virtually eliminate edge calls really impresses me.

Mathman · Oct 16, 2016

I don't really see how Hanyu has any rival for this distinction at present. (Just my opinion, of course.)

Raomina · Oct 16, 2016

4everchan said:
Totally agree that's why I don't really like these threads. And in my humble opinion, jumps are not the only technical element worth noting here.

To be fair, I don't think jumps are the only technical elements discussed though. It just happens to be a big part of it, considering it comprises of 8 out of 13 elements in the FS. [emoji14]

Mathman said:
I don't really see how Hanyu has any rival for this distinction at present. (Just my opinion, of course.)

Personally, I agree with this as well. I think the CBC commentary for his 2014 GPF FS performance really highlighted what's so special about his skating and jumps, in particular.

https://youtu.be/U1ziAulXor4

Kurt Browning: "And the big picture: this kid's got the speed, the flow, the spins and those jumps are ridiculous."

He also said this during the replay: "I don't know how to try to explain how wonderful these jumps look, to have the trajectory of a four revolution jump go in the air perfectly, the right amount of height for the right amount of distance, so that your body comes down like a float plane onto a smooth lake and no flow is lost. And I can't get over how calm his upper body is when he jumps and lands."

And the other commentator (Brenda Irving?) adds later :"and he does it with no extra energy. He uses economy of movement all the time."

Those qualities are really what stands out about his jumps for me. And this goes in hand with what he said after his ACI skate, where he said that it wasn't a problem of his stamina but rather that he could do some of the jumps more efficiently. Fine-tuning rather than brute force and 'muscling' a jump to get the power to rotate. Perhaps it's a necessity due to his asthma but that is a very technical approach if I have ever seen one.

karne · Oct 16, 2016

Mathman said:
I don't really see how Hanyu has any rival for this distinction at present. (Just my opinion, of course.)

IMO, Hanyu cannot be considered for this distinction. (Awaiting flames and pitchforks.) Someone who is still prone to falling all over the ice cannot be considered.

That is why I say Plushenko. Because he will not fail you. You could stake your life on his skating and he would pull through for you. Can you really say the same about anyone else in this field? No-one else has his iron will and flawless, foolproof technique.

Daniel1998 · Oct 16, 2016

It really depends on what technician means.
If you mean quality, I think Hanyu is untouchable in that regard. Best quality quads in the world, best triple axel (and NO one can convince me otherwise looool), excellent spins, fantastic step sequences. At his best, the guy has absolutely no elements where you look at it and go hmm, that's messy.
But he's obviously not the most consistent skater in the world. Miyahara is maybe the most consistent singles skater I've seen in recent years. Does that make her the best technician?
Does technician mean difficulty? Then Boyang or Nathan would win.
To me, when someone says 'excellent technical elements', the first name that pops to my head is Hanyu. So I guess I'd go with him. But it's obviously open to interpretation.

4everchan · Oct 16, 2016

that's why i said this thread is iffy..

see, your criteria is consistency. others, difficulty...

That is not my criteria at all as a skater could land all of their jump at all times and still have awful position (not talking about anyone in particular).

I suggested pure movements, clean positions, good clear edges etc.. but i got the flames and the pitchforks for being a Chan fan who would be wishing ill to other competitors... Chan fans don't do that, quite the opposite. We just happen to like a very particular kind of skating

oh well

to each his own. I think the "who is the best threads" should be kept in the cafe section of the forum

karne said:
IMO, Hanyu cannot be considered for this distinction. (Awaiting flames and pitchforks.) Someone who is still prone to falling all over the ice cannot be considered.

That is why I say Plushenko. Because he will not fail you. You could stake your life on his skating and he would pull through for you. Can you really say the same about anyone else in this field? No-one else has his iron will and flawless, foolproof technique.

ETA Daniel beat me to it.

karne · Oct 16, 2016

4everchan said:
that's why i said this thread is iffy..

see, your criteria is consistency. others, difficulty...

That is not my criteria at all as a skater could land all of their jump at all times and still have awful position (not talking about anyone in particular).

I respectfully disagree - I noted in my other post that it is not just about consistency but also about consistently good technique. Plushenko's jumps have superb technique which he never loses control of. So he is consistent because of his technique, but he also has the iron will to help him stay consistent.

And it's not just his jumps. It was more noticeable when he was younger, but the stretch line on his base camel is divine.

4everchan · Oct 16, 2016

karne said:
I respectfully disagree - I noted in my other post that it is not just about consistency but also about consistently good technique. Plushenko's jumps have superb technique which he never loses control of. So he is consistent because of his technique, but he also has the iron will to help him stay consistent.

And it's not just his jumps. It was more noticeable when he was younger, but the stretch line on his base camel is divine.

i must have missed your other post, was only referring to the one here.

I didn't follow figure skating in the plushy era as much... i did with yags, then got busy, and when I came back it was lambiel whom I adored. so, unfortunately for me, my recollection of plushy is limited. however, when i saw max at ACI, his shirt reminded me of the sex bomb shirt plushy had for his EX... however, Max's muscles are all real

Skater Boy · Oct 16, 2016

I still don't know what is the criteria for technician. and now everyone is so inconsistent it seems because of the push for the quads. even Hanyu thoughit is early was inconsistent.

The best technician in the world

CanadianSkaterGuy

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