IOC's banning of Russia from 2018 Olympics

Mrs. P said:

My understanding is that the Russian Skating Federation/ISU can decide how athletes would earn one of those neutral flat berths (given they meet IOC requirements). So RSF can decide which 3 Russian ladies can have the spots. My guess if there are spots that aren't taken by Russian athletes, they will be redistributed.

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gmyers said:

Russia isn’t being abolished it’s name is just being suspended. Russia is being recognized as earning spots but then being suspended as a entry name.


That’s been the case at least twice before!

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Oh okay, that makes sense. Thanks! I hope we get news asap about Russia's decision to allow the skaters to compete... not only for our sake, but for the athletes first and foremost. I can't imagine how stressful this must be for them.

gmyers said:

I disagree. A lot will never know where Medvedeva or zagitova are from.

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Well, Russian names are not the most difficult to spot.

Russia has said before they don't plan to boycott.

Princessroja said:

Oh okay, that makes sense. Thanks! I hope we get news asap about Russia's decision to allow the skaters to compete... not only for our sake, but for the athletes first and foremost. I can't imagine how stressful this must be for them.

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Putin speaks in a few hours. Russian skating on the 10th.

Bcash said:

Well, Russian names are not the most difficult to spot.

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You never know if it’s Bulgarian!

skateluvr said:

No responses. Um please are we going to see the skaters or not? What’s the deal..clean athlete no dope history. No flag nor anthem. Will the skaters be able to skate or will Russia boycott.

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It is a terrible situation for Russian skaters.

The only doping instance I can recall among figure skaters was when one of B/S inadvertently took a cold medication at a World Championship. In that case, they immediately withdrew from the competition. I think their suspension was minimal, mostly because of the piddling nature of the offense, and their prompt and ethical response.

If there has ever been a doping offense among skaters from any country, I hope someone will remind me of it.

Also, many questions whether the skaters will be allowed to compete... but please recognize that some of them may not want to. I remember in Rio the great female Russian gymnast (whose name I forget but starts with M) indicated that she would not compete except under the Russian flag. Russians are rightfully proud of their nationality and Russian citizenship, and this situation will no doubt present them with individual ethics questions.

This is not the summer games where almost every contry can compete. The next winter games will be so empty and uninteresting without the huge Russian delegation in many sports. Hockey without Russia? Poor Korean they spent a lot of money in the OG and everybody will remember "the games where the Russsian were banned."

I hope they will go under neutral flag. But I'm curious of that what will be the decision of the athletes? I hope they will go and will fight like they never did.

I see the following issues:

1. Not all athletes will be happy to compete under neutral flag, since Olympic games are highly nationalistic, as people already pointed out.
2. What will be the process of approval to compete under the neutral flag? The description sounds troublesome and bureocratic, and i´m pretty sure IOC is not prepared to deal with a large number of such applications (and russian delegation is one of the largest so just saying). Will delays happen? Will all the stuff be approved in time to allow the athletes to compete (reminder, they probably need to get visas and such, which i bet cannot be obtained without getting everything sorted with IOC first)? There are just 2 months left, and part of those 2 month will be end of the year and the related holidays - i see how this can result in extra delays.
3. While no official statement yet, some russian *important people* already spoke about it. In a few words: "the choice is of each athlete, but Putin will probably want to boycott and the russian public opinion will probably condemn"

If I were Putin, I'd announce tomorrow that Russian government encourages all IOC-invited athletes to compete in the Olympics under IOC flag and the state will reward all medalists as usual (Apt+BMW+Cash). It would lift any uncertainty and allow the athletes to concentrate on their preparation.

Tahuu said:

If I were Putin, I'd announce tomorrow that Russian government encourages all IOC-invited athletes to compete in the Olympics under IOC flag and the state will reward all medalists as usual (Apt+BMW+Cash). It would lift any uncertainty and allow the athletes to concentrate on their preparation.

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Polls show 50/50 about boycott. Athletes from Chechen Republic won't compete under neutral flag according to latest news.
Elections are coming. Kremlin has already announced that they see it as an attempt to influence Russian elections.
I think boycott is possible.

TontoK said:

It is a terrible situation for Russian skaters.


Also, many questions whether the skaters will be allowed to compete... but please recognize that some of them may not want to. I remember in Rio the great female Russian gymnast (whose name I forget but starts with M) indicated that she would not compete except under the Russian flag. Russians are rightfully proud of their nationality and Russian citizenship, and this situation will no doubt present them with individual ethics questions.

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Aliya Mustafina is the gymnast you are thinking of, and yes she did state that she would not compete under the Olympic flag, she would only represent Russia. She said this when in Rio while waiting to hear the IOC’s decision about whether the gymnasts would be permitted to take part under the Russian flag, so I feel that speaks volumes; it is not as though she said weeks later that she wouldn’t have competed for herself, she was firm on her position even when in the Olympic Village with medals virtually guaranteed her staring her in the face.

I can’t imagine the backlash an athlete would face if they decided to compete neutrally.
Not, I imagine, that many would, their patriotism is strong.

How dreadful that they are being put in this position.

Problem is Mustafina had already been to Olympics but many of the current team Rus contenders haven’t. How devastating for say someone like Medvedeva to not get a chance to win the only title she’s never won because of this. In another 4 years she’ll be 22 with the current crop of Russian ladies coming up it’s probably safe to say she won’t be an Olympic favourite then. This is her only chance and to lose this moment over flags and anthems? I don’t know if that’s wise.

Sam L said:

Problem is Mustafina had already been to Olympics but many of the current team Rus contenders haven’t. How devastating for say someone like Medvedeva to not get a chance to win the only title she’s never won because of this. In another 4 years she’ll be 22 with the current crop of Russian ladies coming up it’s probably safe to say she won’t be an Olympic favourite then. This is her only chance and to lose this moment over flags and anthems? I don’t know if that’s wise.

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Exactly: the individual athletes will suffer and it's not fair. The politicians should allow and even support them to go. The Olympic Games will survive without Russia and Russia will survive without the Olympics, but the individual athletes will be affected.

Now because of so much media you are getting so much athlete opinion before putin speaks. Viktor Ahn just said if Russia doesn’t boycott he’d be happy competing neutral.

plushyfan said:

I doubt it. I couldn't see any evidence.

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Well, if there were evidence what would it take for you to acknowledge it? They've been caught so many times. There have been multiple transgressions, including the past Olympics.

gmyers said:

Now because of so much media you are getting so much athlete opinion before putin speaks. Viktor Ahn just said if Russia doesn’t boycott he’d be happy competing neutral.

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Of course, he is Korean.

I’ve just read the 30 page report put out by the IOC. Ugh...it’s a brutal read and very little new information is actually verified or brought to light and a lot of the evidence is surprisingly inconclusive including the IOC’s admission that there is no definitive proof that the highest level of state officials were involved.

Note: If you read the previous pages from what I'm posting below you'll see that it's largely based on a diary kept by Rodchenkov and compared against emails.

Nevertheless, the independent and impartial evidence do not allow the IOC DC to establish with certitude either who initiated or who headed this scheme.
On many occasions, reference was made on the involvement at the Minister of Sport’s level, but no indication, independent or impartial evidence appeared to corroborate any involvement or knowledge at a higher level of the State.
This assertion is confirmed by Prof. Richard McLaren’s change of wording in his Final Report: in his Preliminary Report, he considered the existence of a “State-dictated failsafe system”, including the activity of the Moscow Laboratory operating “under State directed oversight and control of its anti-doping operational system”; but, in his Final Report, he amended the wording to “An institutional conspiracy existed across summer and winter sports athletes who participated with Russian officials within the Ministry of Sport and its infrastructure, such as the RUSADA, CSP and the Moscow Laboratory, along with the FSB for the purposes of manipulating doping controls.”

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They've basically concluded that the failure of doping controls was a violation of contractual obligations signed on for as a hosting nation. Basically WADA and IOC were not responsible for anti doping controls and the host nation is the sole executioner of the anti doping process and the ROC WAS responsible for allowing the twenty some athletes to qualify and compete dirty. That at least seems to be the legal case they've laid out.

Another interesting fact is that an overwhelming majority of the doping and tampered results were from Track and Field with a clear admission that those athletes were likley encouraged to buy drugs and later forced to make payoffs to cover up tests.

The IOC DC also reviewed the findings of the IC Chaired by Mr Richard Pound, in the light of the documented objective elements mentioned above. This analysis demonstrates that these activities within the Russian sport organisations, with the support of the Moscow Laboratory, gave the opportunity to some of the actors to obtain a financial gain by encouraging the athletes to purchase the doping substances and, in case of positive tests results, to receive payment to conceal them.

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What a mess. Ugh

madison said:

Just before IOC's announcement, she posted on twitter that she hopes that all Russian athletes will be banned.

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This is putting words in her mouth. She said:

"Thank you @deidrardionne for these words!! We all want a clean and fair playing field. I live my life everyday with integrity, something I was inspired to do from the Olympic movement. Olympic values should be upheld and respected by the IOC as well."

She said this in response to an article which said: "If you don't take a stand against the entire Russian system, you'll be setting the wrong kind of global precedent. You'll be solidifying the belief that the only risk in running a dirty system is the potential consequences that will fall on individual athletes. That doesn't sound very athlete-centred to me."

I don't disagree with that statement, and apparently neither does Duhamel. For her to say "Thank you for these words" isn't saying she thinks all Russian athletes, including clean ones, should be banned. She's saying - to use her words - she wants a clean and fair playing field. She supports clean Russians, too.

By holding Russia to task, this is what this decision will (hopefully) do.

Another excerpt from the article:

"That idea of a missed opportunity is something Christine Girard told me is the most difficult part of not being awarded an Olympic medal when she should have. Christine is a Canadian weightlifter who finished fourth in 2008 and third in 2012, only to have both finishes upgraded years later — to a bronze and a gold, respectively — after her opponents were caught doping. Christine told me that everyone asks her about being robbed of the chance to receive a gold medal at the 2012 Olympics. But she says the tougher pill for her to swallow is missing out on standing on the podium at the 2008 Games because of all the additional support she would have received as an Olympic medallist.

I'm sharing these stories with you because I love Olympic sport and I want you to uphold its values. To me, that means standing up to the Russian sport system and holding it accountable for its actions — just like athletes are."

The point is, Russia continually involves itself in doping in various sports and someone needs to give them a wakeup call. It's sad that this comes at the expense of clean athletes, but the alternative is that Russia continues doing its business and stealing medals from clean athletes, because doping is so ingrained in its commitment to sporting excellence.

Couldn't. The evidences are so foggy plus the urns were in the hands of many people.. Is McLaren a god?

Sam-Skwantch said:

The IOC DC also reviewed the findings of the IC Chaired by Mr Richard Pound, in the light of the documented objective elements mentioned above. This analysis demonstrates that these activities within the Russian sport organisations, with the support of the Moscow Laboratory, gave the opportunity to some of the actors to obtain a financial gain by encouraging the athletes to purchase the doping substances and, in case of positive tests results, to receive payment to conceal them.

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I'm really curious how can they know it? The Russians allowed to make investigation in Russia?

plushyfan said:

I'm really curious how can they know it? The Russians allowed to make investigation in Russia?

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That was related to Dick Pound's investigation into the IAAF and Russian sports. It's proposed that the IAAF officials influenced Russian coaches to encourage doping that the IAAF officials would then charge around $250,000 to cover up the failed results. Look up Papa Diack and Black Tidings to see a very shadowy side of the sporting world.

Investigators claim that Diack and his accomplices were so brazen in their pursuit of corrupt money that one of his associates operated a company called Black Tidings, which, according to a World Anti-Doping Agency investigation, means “Black Marketing or to Launder Black Money” in Hindi. That account is linked to an extortion scheme in which mainly Russian athletes were directed to pay thousands of dollars in return for their failed doping tests to be covered up.

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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/16/sports/olympics/papa-massata-diack-iaaf.html