2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

Elucidus said:

It's simple. Allow quads in SP for ladies.

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The first men's 4T was landed in 1988. The first quads allowed in the short for men was in 1998. In the few years around then, there were at least 12 men (rather arbitrary number; true number probably much higher) attempting quads. Right now, there are only three women that are attempting quads in seniors, maybe a few more by the end of the season. Also, women have been consistently landing quads in competition for about two years, compared to a several decade history of landing triple axels. It would certainly go against precedent to allow women to do quads in the short right now, when that would benefit so few skaters.

By all means, allow them after the Olympics, when you'll likely have a good 10-15 women attempting or landing quads. Otherwise, I'm not expecting the ISU to change their rules on this one just yet.

Giltedge said:

Can anybody (perhaps the resourceful Spirals) point to a source listing all the podium medals garnered by the Tutberidze skaters last season? I'm after a comprehensive listing that includes all the levels, younger, elder girls, juniors and seniors (and boys as well if available)? Tia.

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Working on it!

ETA:

Alina Zagitova: Worlds 1, Euros 2, GPF 2, Rostelecom 1, Grand Prix Helsinki 1, Nebelhorn 1
Alexandra Trusova: Spartakiad 1, JWC 1, JrNats 1, RusNats 2, JGPF 2, JGP Armenia 1, JGP Lithuania 1, 4th Stage 1
Alena Kostornaya: JrNats 2, RusNats 3, JGPF 1, JGP Czech Republic 1, JGP Austria 1, 4th Stage 2
Anna Shcherbakova: Spartakiad 2, JWC 2, EYOF 1, JrNats 3, RusNats 1, JGP Canada 1, JGP Slovakia 1, 2nd Stage 1, 4th Stage 1
Elizabet Tursynbaeva: Worlds 2, 4CC 2, Universiade 2, Finlandia 2, Nepela 2
Kamila Valieva: Elder Age 1, Elder Age Qualifiers 1, Younger Age (Elder Group) 1, Cup of Moscow 1, 2nd Stage 3, 1st Stage 1, Open Moscow Cup 1
Daria Usacheva: Elder Age 3, Russian Cup Final 2, Volkov Memorial 3, 2nd Stage 1, 1st Stage 2, Open Moscow Cup 2
Maya Kromykh: Russian Cup Final 1, Elder Age 2, Elder Age Qualifiers 2, Cup of Moscow 2, 5th Stage 2
Sofia Akatieva: Younger Age 2, Volkov Memorial 2
Veronika Zhilina: Younger Age 1

Moris Kvitelashvili: Universiade 3, Rostelecom 2, Finlandia 3
Daniil Samsonov: Spartakiad 2, Children of Asia 1, JrNats 1, Cup of Moscow 1, 2nd Stage 1, 1st Stage 1, Open Moscow Cup 1
Georgy Kunitsa: Elder Age 3, Elder Age Qualifiers 3, Russian Cup Final 2, Cup of Moscow 2, 3rd Stage 3
Egor Rukhin: Children of Asia 2, 5th Stage 3
Artem Frolov: 3rd Stage 2
Mark Lukin: Younger Age Qualifiers 1
Nikolai Kolesnikov: Younger Age 2, Younger Age Qualifiers 2, Volkov 1

May not be fully correct but that's what I have for now!

Edwin said:

Heel-ography? Is that analogous to 'armography' a term I learned from BBC's "Strictly Come Dancing" show daily features with this ballet critic and his 'magic wand'? Completely off topic, I know.

But what do you mean by 'heel-ography'?

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I mean she used the heel of her blade a lot, the same way Elizaveta uses hand-ography.

Basically using a specific area of the body for movement rather than full body movement or actual meaningful choreography.

As I said I do not think alinas Carmen will ever be called iconic. What could very well be called iconic are her Olympic programms.

There are just 2 senior ladies in the world with a stable triple axel. There is the same argument that they have "unfair" advantage. I see no reason to postpone letting quads in short programs.

And we're back to our favourite past time here - Alina-bashing! Yay!

JazzUp said:

And we're back to our favourite past time here - Alina-bashing! Yay! [emoji3]

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We're do you see alina bashing in my comments? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] I only said that her Carmen programm is not that iconic to stop others from using Carmen as music for their programms. I also said that she most likely will not be remembered for her Carmen programm but for her Olympic programms, and mabye also this year's free , it seems to be at least not fully packed and rushed like Carmen. So it gives her the time to hold positions a bit longer . Which I find great. But I forget when it comes to eteri and co and her skaters no one can give anything but glowing praises , those who dare otherwise are called haters or something along those lines. Uups my bad [emoji6][emoji23]how silly of me to forget that important unspoken rule.

[email protected] said:

There are just 2 senior ladies in the world with a stable triple axel. There is the same argument that they have "unfair" advantage. I see no reason to postpone letting quads in short programs.

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I think those who say quads or 3a are an "unfair" advantage just want to downplay their skills.

Personally i'm all for quads in the SP too, i don't see the point for the restriction, if the other ladies cannot perform these elements, it's up to them to keep up.

JazzUp said:

I'm sure it's not a full list (plus novice/jr not marked in the list, sorry) but here's what I've found so far:

Moris Kvitelashvili - silver medalist Rostelecom Cup 2018

Aleksey Yerokhov - World Junior Champion 2018, winner of the Russian Junior Championship 2018

Anna Shcherbakova - finalist of JGP 2018, Champion of Russia 2018-2019, silver medalist of the JWC 2019

Daniil Samsonov - winner of the Championship of Russia 2018, winner of the Championship of Russia 2019

Alexandra Trusova - World Champion among juniors 2018, 2019, silver medalist of JGP 2018, silver medalist of the Russian Championship 2018-2019.

Alyona Kostornaya - silver medalist of JWC 2018, winner of JGP 2018, bronze medalist of the Championship of Russia 2018-2019.

Sofya Akatyeva - silver medalist of the Russian Championship 2019

Arseniy Fedotov - winner of the Championship of Russia 2019

Mark Lukin - bronze medalist of the Championship of Russia 2018

Nikolay Kolesnikov - silver medalist of the Championship of Russia 2019

Veronika Zhilina - Russian Championship winner 2019

And, of course, Lilbet & Alina.

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Thank you for that, JazzUp. The list should grow quite a bit with Darya's, Maiia's and Kamila's also leafed in. There was also that youth games thingy that Anna won and Daniil's Asia games medal.

Spirals for Miles said:

Working on it!

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:hap85:

I posted this in the ladies quads thread, but here it is again:

Quads should be allowed in the SP. Also, PCS factoring should be the same for men and women. The men’s LP no longer has an additional :30 and 8th jumping pass, so the requirements are exactly the same for men and women. Why are they artificially deflating women’s component scores? So the totals will be lower than the men? Doesn’t make sense to me. The requirements should be the same across both programs and the PCS factoring should also be the same.

JazzUp said:

And we're back to our favourite past time here - Alina-bashing! Yay!

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Not jumping on everything she does is not bashing.

Let's be honest, she struggled a lot last season and both of her programs were cluttered with too many transitions, which contributed to her struggling.

In a way, it is sad for Alina, who really wanted to do Carmen... she got to skate it really well just at Japan Open.... and maybe at World's, but she still skated on top for the music there at parts. It was somewhat more enjoyable at shows (minus the part with the chair. I may be a prude, but i don't enjoy girls Basic Instincting all over the place).

But in a way, Witt's Carmen was icon because it was not stuffed full of transition and there was space for her just be flirty and sensual. Maybe Carmen is not suitable for programs full of transition, hence not suitable to competitive programs anymore?

lzxnl said:

I'm sure that when people decided to train a 3A instead of a 4T, for instance, it was done keeping in mind the rule of allowing 3As in the short but not 4Ts. You can argue that changing the rules to allow quads in the short is unfair to those who trained 3As.

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When it is fair in men's SP, I don't see how it could be unfair to ladies.

It's called damning with faint praise. It oozes like latex from a poison tree. People are not taken in, of course.

Three quadruple jumps and two world records. This Trusova is indeed Unstoppable

Tutberidze's pupil won her first adult competition.

The Ondrei Nepel Memorial will go down in eternal history as the tournament in which three quadruple jumps in the women's free program were done by a single skater. The author of the new achievement is Aleksandra Trusova.

Her quads, of course, aren't novelties. She tried to complete three such jumps in one program last season. And only succeeded in the Open Test Skates.

Two weeks ago in Moscow the same happened, but Sasha herself recalled: “Last year I had three quads in my routine, also at the Test Skates, but in competitions I haven't done it yet. I’ll try to do the same in competitions, I hope I can.”

In Bratislava, there were also concerns: in the morning training session Trusova fell a lot and fell painfully on her quads. But she collected herself. 238.69 points - a new benchmark in women's single skating and the first senior assessment in the career of 15-year-old Trusova.

The previous record belonged to Olympic champion Alina Zagitova and lasted less than a year, as well as another achievement - the score of the free program. Alina had 158.50 points, but now everyone will chase after Sasha. She scored 163.78 points.

This is far from the maximum for Trusova. So, in Bratislava, a cascade of triple Lutz and Rittberger didn't work out. The second jump summed up - Sasha landed it with difficulty, and the judges also counted only two turns instead of three. This, of course, affected the outcome. In addition, it was noticeable that the quads took too much effort, and in the second half of the program her complex choreography didn't look so impressive.

When absolutely everything turns out well for Sasha, even more serious figures appear in the protocol. Last season, she scored 254.33 points in the student’s Spartakiad. This is a result, that will easily get her into the top 20, even at men's World Championship.

Trusova's Record Program

Trusova's free program is unique in its complexity. In addition to three quadruple jumps, one of which is performed in a cascade, there are series of triple jumps with no lesser complexity: Lutz-Rittberger and Lutz-Euler-Salkhov. The only two-turn jump is the Axel. In addition, at least four technical elements have a difficulty level above 10 points.

Only Trusova herself did more complex programs at the junior World Championship in the 2017/18 season. Then, Sasha performed only two quads: Salkhov and Toeloop, but all the cascades were in to second part and received a ten percent bonus - the old ISU rules acted.

More complexity is possible even now. Trusova is learning the quadruple Flip with might and continues to work on the steps and connections between the elements.

***

The other Russians - Stanislava Konstantinova and Mariya Sotskova - could not cope with their programs. Konstantinova had an underrotation and a fall on a triple Flip, a triple Rittberger with a landing on two legs and another fall. Sotskova also fell and downgraded almost all her triple jumps to doubles. As a result - only 7th and 9th places respectively.
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https://sport24.ru/news/other/2019-...la-dva-rekorda-zagitovoy-foto-video-instagram

Spirals for Miles said:

Working on it!

ETA:

Alina Zagitova: Worlds 1, Euros 2, GPF 2, Rostelecom 1, Grand Prix Helsinki 1, Nebelhorn 1
Alexandra Trusova: Spartakiad 1, JWC 1, JrNats 1, RusNats 2, JGPF 2, JGP Armenia 1, JGP Lithuania 1
Alena Kostornaya: JrNats 3, RusNats 3, JGPF 1, JGP Czech Republic 1, JGP Austria 1
Anna Shcherbakova: Spartakiad 2, JWC 2, EYOF 2, JrNats 2, RusNats 1, JGP Canada 1, JGP Slovakia 1
Elizabet Tursynbaeva: Worlds 2, 4CC 2, Universiade 2, Finlandia 2, Nepela 2
Kamila Valieva: Elder Age 1, Elder Age Qualifiers 1, Younger Age (Elder Group) 1, Cup of Moscow 1, 2nd Stage 3, 1st Stage 1, Open Moscow Cup 1
Daria Usacheva: Elder Age 3, Russian Cup Final 2, Volkov Memorial 3, 2nd Stage 1, 1st Stage 2, Open Moscow Cup 2
Maya Kromykh: Russian Cup Final 1, Elder Age 2, Elder Age Qualifiers 2, Cup of Moscow 2, 5th Stage 2
Sofia Akatieva: Younger Age 2, Volkov Memorial 2
Veronika Zhilina: Younger Age 1

Moris Kvitelashvili: Universiade 3, Rostelecom 2, Finlandia 3
Daniil Samsonov: Spartakiad 2, Children of Asia 1, JrNats 1, Cup of Moscow 1, 2nd Stage 1, 1st Stage 1, Open Moscow Cup 1
Georgy Kunitsa: Elder Age 3, Elder Age Qualifiers 3, Russian Cup Final 2, Cup of Moscow 2, 3rd Stage 3
Egor Rukhin: Children of Asia 2, 5th Stage 3
Artem Frolov: 3rd Stage 2
Mark Lukin: Younger Age Qualifiers 1
Nikolai Kolesnikov: Younger Age 2, Younger Age Qualifiers 2, Volkov 1

May not be fully correct but that's what I have for now!

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Oh sorry, I didn't see the list slip in under the comment
Thank you

lzxnl said:

The first men's 4T was landed in 1988. The first quads allowed in the short for men was in 1998. In the few years around then, there were at least 12 men (rather arbitrary number; true number probably much higher) attempting quads. Right now, there are only three women that are attempting quads in seniors, maybe a few more by the end of the season. Also, women have been consistently landing quads in competition for about two years, compared to a several decade history of landing triple axels. It would certainly go against precedent to allow women to do quads in the short right now, when that would benefit so few skaters.

By all means, allow them after the Olympics, when you'll likely have a good 10-15 women attempting or landing quads. Otherwise, I'm not expecting the ISU to change their rules on this one just yet.

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The point is that its unfair to allow 3as and not quads. There have never been 10-15 women landing 3a at once in seniors, not even close to it. So if "benefitting few skaters" is your reason for not allowing quads, then why allow 3as? Last year there were only 3 women jumping a 3a at the senior level and we allowed it. The year before, even fewer. Now there are 3 senior ladies jumping quads (probably soon to be 4 when Rika does hers) and at least two juniors. Its not fair to "benefit" these 2/3 ladies doing 3as and not to "benefit" the 3-5 ladies doing quads. It should either be that 3as and quads are allowed, or neither are allowed.

Edwin said:

True. Gleikhengauz stated in an interview the team staged Carmen for Alina is such an authoritative way, no skater would achieve the same impact with the image and music for quite some time. First Alina needs to be forgotten, but will the figure skating community and professionals ever forget Alina?

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Thats a desinterpretation. He didn't say "we did it that way", he said "we tried to do it that way." Which is quite understandable, in fact I believe every choreographer wants to do programs that could be considered such.

fabienne1996 said:

And daniil has as too huge ego when he said that, alinas Carmen was not that memorable to not skate to it again in the next few years, her programms the year before those where better. The one iconic skater that skated to Carmen is and always will be Katharine Witt and not alina,

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Interresting that Katarina was able to congratulate Alina for her Carmen, while you are unable of it. But ego or not, Alina's Carmen is in every possible way better program than how programs were made 30 years ago, the fact that you can't deal with it doesn't change it.

Giltedge said:

It's called damning with faint praise. It oozes like latex from a poison tree. People are not taken in, of course.

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You know what I am happy that there are people outside this forum with who you can discuss calmly without beeing called a hater or something along those lines as soon as you do not give only glowing praises to a certain team . No skater is perfect not zhenya, not alina , not Sasha , Liza or even other ladies in ladies skating are not perfect.

Spirals for Miles said:

Working on it!

ETA:

Alina Zagitova: Worlds 1, Euros 2, GPF 2, Rostelecom 1, Grand Prix Helsinki 1, Nebelhorn 1
Alexandra Trusova: Spartakiad 1, JWC 1, JrNats 1, RusNats 2, JGPF 2, JGP Armenia 1, JGP Lithuania 1
Alena Kostornaya: JrNats 3, RusNats 3, JGPF 1, JGP Czech Republic 1, JGP Austria 1
Anna Shcherbakova: Spartakiad 2, JWC 2, EYOF 2, JrNats 2, RusNats 1, JGP Canada 1, JGP Slovakia 1
Elizabet Tursynbaeva: Worlds 2, 4CC 2, Universiade 2, Finlandia 2, Nepela 2
Kamila Valieva: Elder Age 1, Elder Age Qualifiers 1, Younger Age (Elder Group) 1, Cup of Moscow 1, 2nd Stage 3, 1st Stage 1, Open Moscow Cup 1
Daria Usacheva: Elder Age 3, Russian Cup Final 2, Volkov Memorial 3, 2nd Stage 1, 1st Stage 2, Open Moscow Cup 2
Maya Kromykh: Russian Cup Final 1, Elder Age 2, Elder Age Qualifiers 2, Cup of Moscow 2, 5th Stage 2
Sofia Akatieva: Younger Age 2, Volkov Memorial 2
Veronika Zhilina: Younger Age 1

Moris Kvitelashvili: Universiade 3, Rostelecom 2, Finlandia 3
Daniil Samsonov: Spartakiad 2, Children of Asia 1, JrNats 1, Cup of Moscow 1, 2nd Stage 1, 1st Stage 1, Open Moscow Cup 1
Georgy Kunitsa: Elder Age 3, Elder Age Qualifiers 3, Russian Cup Final 2, Cup of Moscow 2, 3rd Stage 3
Egor Rukhin: Children of Asia 2, 5th Stage 3
Artem Frolov: 3rd Stage 2
Mark Lukin: Younger Age Qualifiers 1
Nikolai Kolesnikov: Younger Age 2, Younger Age Qualifiers 2, Volkov 1

May not be fully correct but that's what I have for now!

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I think you switched Alena and Anna at Jr Nationals.

Also, since you have the Cup events for the junior skaters, why not add in for the 3A?

Cup of Russia stage 2 - Anna 1st
Cup of Russia stage 4 - Sasha 1st, Alena 2nd; Anna 1st in KMS category

Spirals for Miles said:

May not be fully correct but that's what I have for now!

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TeamTutberidze medal chest is full to the brim!