2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

flanker said:

On one hand I thank you for admitting that our point about anna being undersored was right, on the other I must express my concern that it probably still seems OK to you if that "is not going to be the norm throughout the season." First, we don't even know what will be the norm throughout the season, second, the fact that Sasha wasn't undersored so blatantly as Anna doesn't mean that anyone should accept what happened at Lombardia Trophy.

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I said in several of my posts that I thought Anna was underscored as well, in my opinion. I just tried to point out how it was not especially unusual. Sorry you must've missed those. Was that "right" or "wrong"? It's an opinion, so it's neither. Obviously the judges disagreed with us, and it's their opinions that matter, not ours.

As for accepting or not accepting what happened at Lombardia Trophy - it's my understanding that we have all accepted it. Did you file a formal complaint with the ISU? Did Anna? Did Eteri and Daniil? Is RusFed going to sue the ISU or get the IOC to intervene? Or did they all accept it?

andromache said:

I said in several of my posts that I thought Anna was underscored as well, in my opinion. I just tried to point out how it was not especially unusual. Sorry you must've missed those.

As for accepting or not accepting what happened at Lombardia Trophy - it's my understanding that we have all accepted it. Did you file a formal complaint with the ISU? Did Anna? Did Eteri and Daniil? Is RusFed going to sue the ISU or get the IOC to intervene? Or did they all accept it?

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What you did in your comments about that score was "normalizing it", "it happens, why you should care", that's what are you offering all the week. I disagree.

Did you ask everybody who made a complaint here about scoring or you reserve that only for those who disagree with you? And, did you personally file a formal complaint with the ISU? If not, then I hope I won't hear a single complaint from you ever

karina17 said:

but even if that's true, the placement of the dress change still feels very weird in the choreography.
... Sasha did not have a well-thought-out moment like that.

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The change is done when the music switches from the more lyrical 'Solveig's Song' to a bit darker angsty 'In the Hall of the Mountain King', I think it suits the choreo pretty well (just needs to be done a bit smoother).

Well, that was interesting!

Sasha - Great skate (of course). I think it is a PB for a short program? I suppose Kaori and Stasya was the main competition here and they were not clean, but Sasha seems to have beaten them comfortably in PCS. It will be interesting to see how the PCS will work out tomorrow. Sasha might be unstoppable this year.

Stasya - Is there anyone who can look so sad after a disappointing skate? She is a beautiful skater though and I still think she looks stronger this year.

Masha - What a disaster. You could see that the jumps simply are not there. She really needs to step it up tomorrow. If she skates like this at IdF, my disappointment that she got that GP spot over Gubanova will rise again.

I need to mention Ryabova as well (as she is Russian). I had high hopes for her this season but it seems she hasn't evolved much artistically. And rightfully so, the judges were not kind to her PCS wise.

Resa said:

I didn't even recognise a costume change. I need to rewatch the program it seems

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The problem with the costume change is that it is not much of a change really, which makes the effect rather unnoticeable. Anna's costume change is more visual and dramatic.

flanker said:

What you did in your comments about that score was "normalizing it", "it happens, why you should care", that's what are you offering all the week. I disagree.

Did you ask everybody who made a complaint here about scoring or you reserve that only for those who disagree with you? And, did you personally file a formal complaint with the ISU? If not, then I hope I won't hear a single complaint from you ever

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I am eager to see this level of outrage continued when a different girl is underscored. It is very odd I don't see any of the upset posters from Lombardia in the South Korean skaters thread.....Hanul Kim had a very nice performance here but scored 4 PCS below Konstantinova. Same for Lara Naki Guttman. Where is the outrage for her? Both of these ladies scored PCS similar to Maria Sotskova, who had two very disruptive falls.

It is very strange that people who care so deeply about the fairness of the sport only care about fairness for some skaters and not others.

Yes, I complain when I disagree with the judges or when I think the scoring is unfair to people I like. However, I do not pretend that my perspective is the only right one and that everyone else, including the judges, is 100% wrong, or that a serious injustice has happened that must be rectified. People can disagree and that's okay.

The funny thing is only that when favorites‘ scores are criticized in here, one can be sure to hear the “BUT the judges said!!“ comment pop up instantly. That‘s when their opinion matters and is oh so very factual, apparently. When the judging dares to be controversial or considered ”too low“ for said favorites however, the outrage is enormous. Honestly, I think there were very, very few of us who agreed with the judging at Lombardia. I know that I didn‘t - Anna‘s SP really did seem to be scored way too harshly. But the competition‘s over now and Anna won. And imo, wasn‘t underscored at all in the FS. So... We all tend to disagree with the judges sometimes and we’re all biased in some way or another. But it would be nice if we didn‘t start conspiracy theories the second we have a problem with them.

Sasha, Stasya and Masha competed today. Stasya‘s skate made me sad, she seemed so scared throughout the entire thing. I didn‘t see Masha yet but from what I heard she wasn‘t exactly overwhelming either.... Sasha was great, as she always is. I do agree with those who felt the costume change wasn‘t necessary though. I love it on Anna because it‘s something unique and it fits her and the program 100%. Even if we give Sasha time to perform it more smoothly, I don‘t think it fits with the music. So it’s not a problem with Sasha but a problem with where they decided to place the change. And besides, if everybody does it, it‘s not exactly unique anymore... I mean, none of these girls need gimmicks to stand out but with Anna it made sense in the story of the program and the crowd loved it. Sasha... not so much. That being said, she skated really well, though. Amazing jumps. Program‘s not my cup of tea so not gonna comment on that. But she doesn‘t have any real competition at this point anyway. And especially not here. Kaori and Stasya both bombed the SP. Anna got 150 with one quad. One can only imagine what Sasha will do with 3 then. Even if they keep her PCS rightfully (imo, I guess) on the lower side, that TES is just too much to overcome. Will definitely be intriguing to see.

JazzUp said:

The change is done when the music switches from the more lyrical 'Solveig's Song' to a bit darker angsty 'In the Hall of the Mountain King', I think it suits the choreo pretty well (just needs to be done a bit smoother).

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I know what the songs are, but I still don't think the placement really suits what she's performing. The cut they used for In the Hall of the Mountain King is a buildup leading into the crescendo, and for Sasha to change her dress at the very beginning of the buildup (where the music is dark and angsty, yes, but is still very quiet and looming) with 40 more seconds till the crescendo hits feels very weird to me. Of course it's partially down to opinion so we'll probably disagree, but the music cut felt a little abrupt even without the dress change, and now feels even more abrupt. Rather than Sasha gradually transforming into a darker character, it now feels like Sasha is performing two completely different characters in one program and the division is where the song and dress changes.

andromache said:

It is very strange that people who care so deeply about the fairness of the sport only care about fairness for some skaters and not others.

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Don't you just love when people use whataboutism in their arguments?

karina17 said:

but the music cut felt a little abrupt even without the dress change, and now feels even more abrupt.

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It's DJ Danny G after all!

andromache said:

I am eager to see this level of outrage continued when a different girl is underscored. It is very odd I don't see any of the upset posters from Lombardia in the South Korean skaters thread.....Hanul Kim had a very nice performance here but scored 4 PCS below Konstantinova. Same for Lara Naki Guttman. Where is the outrage for her? Both of these ladies scored PCS similar to Maria Sotskova, who had two very disruptive falls.

It is very strange that people who care so deeply about the fairness of the sport only care about fairness for some skaters and not others.

Yes, I complain when I disagree with the judges or when I think the scoring is unfair to people I like. However, I do not pretend that my perspective is the only right one and that everyone else, including the judges, is 100% wrong, or that a serious injustice has happened that must be rectified. People can disagree and that's okay.

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Not only when some girl is underscored, but when some girl is overscored, according to some of the local experts. As for korean skaters, five years after Sochi I still see comments "Yuna the queen was robbed". Not a good example, not here.

Do you think that you are the only here who "do not pretend that your perspective is the only right one"? But that's not the point at all here, you simply rejected any complaint this way while you weren't this active in different cases. The fact that I or other people are speaking about it now is because it is now happening. and it was in fact you who started this conversation with the world by pointing to "conspiracy theory", I can't speak for others but personally if I wouldn't have read that original comment I wouldn't have said anything.

Edit: And in competition threads you can notice that I make comments about low score from time to time even when it doesn't matter my favorites whe I feel it.

JazzUp said:

Don't you just love when people use whataboutism in their arguments?

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It's what makes the "oh the judges' national bias" "oh the judges don't score the other ladies as harshly as my fave" "oh they just don't appreciate the greatness and are deliberately keeping us down" posts so amusing after all

Fluture said:

Honestly, I think they were very, very few of us who agreed with the judging at Lombardia. I know that I didn‘t - Anna‘s SP really did seem to be scored way too harshly. But the competition‘s over now and Anna won.

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What bothers me is that the low scoring of Anna in the short might turn out to be a disadvantage for her. We all know that the competition in Russia for world spots is at the toughest level ever this year, and it might come down to nitpicking SB scores. We all know Sima grabbed a GP spot over Nastya and I can only assume it was the fact she was a couple of points ahead of her in the SB list. I would hate for something like that to happen to Anna because of low scoring in one competition. For all we know, this might be the SB score that stands for Anna (if she doesn't land that 4Lz again).

Fluture said:

The funny thing is only that when favorites‘ scores are criticized in here, one can be sure to hear the “BUT the judges said!!“ comment pop up instantly. That‘s when their opinion matters and is oh so very factual, apparently. When the judging dares to be controversial or considered ”too low“ for said favorites however, the outrage is enormous. Honestly, I think they were very, very few of us who agreed with the judging at Lombardia. I know that I didn‘t - Anna‘s SP really did seem to be scored way too harshly. But the competition‘s over now and Anna won. And imo, wasn‘t underscored at all in the FS. So... We all tend to disagree with the judges sometimes and we’re all biased in some way or another. But it would be nice if we didn‘t start conspiracy theories the second we have a problem with them.

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Exactly! If I say that I think so and so was overscored, the same few posters will all pile on about how the judges are right and they are ultimate authorities and I am wrong and I know nothing. Maybe no one is right or wrong because skating is a subjective sport? Sometimes we agree with the judges and sometimes we don't. Continuing to make a big deal of it is just silly.

Jontor said:

What bothers me is that the low scoring of Anna in the short might turn out to be a disadvantage for her. We all know that the competition in Russia for world spots is at the toughest level ever this year, and it might come down to nitpicking SB scores. We all know Sima grabbed a GP spot over Nastya and I can only assume it was the fact she was a couple of points ahead of her in the SB list. I would hate for something like that to happen to Anna because of low scoring in one competition. For all we know, this might be the SB score that stands for Anna (if she doesn't land that 4Lz again).

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I do understand what you say but I personally don‘t think it will be that way. What matters is Nationals, especially this season. And Anna tends to do well at National events, so I‘d say she has a pretty good chance. And the scores of first year seniors have always risen throughout the season, so I don‘t think it will be any different for Anna. She has three more changes, her two GP events and very, very likely the GPF. That’s plenty of opportunities to raise that SB! Also, she landed that 4Lz in her first international senior outing. What makes you think she might not do it again? I know she‘s known for having that kind of inconsistent 4Lz but so far, it seems very promising. I can understand people being bothered by the low SP score but I don‘t think we should be all too negative yet. Let‘s at least wait until her next GP event.

Jontor said:

What bothers me is that the low scoring of Anna in the short might turn out to be a disadvantage for her. We all know that the competition in Russia for world spots is at the toughest level ever this year, and it might come down to nitpicking SB scores. We all know Sima grabbed a GP spot over Nastya and I can only assume it was the fact she was a couple of points ahead of her in the SB list. I would hate for something like that to happen to Anna because of low scoring in one competition. For all we know, this might be the SB score that stands for Anna (if she doesn't land that 4Lz again).

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Fact is, if Anna never lands the 4Lz again, she probably doesn't deserve to make the World team over all the other girls (let's assume that everyone else skates relatively clean all season long).

What will be the transformation of Alena's costume?:luv17:

Feels like I've missed so much this week.

But at least I'll watch the FS at Gdansk today.

I didn't find the "yanking" from Sasha too harsh tbh, but the camera angle is super weird.

On another note, the transitions out of the 3Lz-3T from Tarakanova are my favourite I think.

MMisMis said:

What will be the transformation of Alena's costume?:luv17:

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Somehow adding red to it for blood.

andromache said:

Fact is, if Anna never lands the 4Lz again, she probably doesn't deserve to make the World team over all the other girls (let's assume that everyone else skates relatively clean all season long).

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That is what I was thinking.

If Anna skates well for the rest of the season, she has chance to making it to GPF, Europeans (medaling there) and likely worlds. If she is inconsistent... well, it may not be her season. Tuktik was quite consistent last season and then lost world's spot basically for getting sick at the wrong time.