Olympic figure skater, coaches being investigated for allegations

While i don't approve Morgan, Sylvia and John actions and think they should be punished for them, the biggest problem i see in this case is in a way how it started. Why would that Vinny guy propose a girl something like that and what was his motivation behind it, and why that girl didn't report his actions imidiately, but actually did what that guy asked from her? I mean, it was obvious they were talking about Morgan's nude pics, he has all his other pics across the net visible. So that guy and that girl motivation and his actions are problematic to me as well

Baron Vladimir said:

While i don't approve Morgan, Sylvia and John actions and think they should be punished for them, the biggest problem i see in this case is in a way how it started. Why would that Vinny guy propose a girl something like that and what was his motivation behind it, and why that girl didn't report his actions imidiately, but actually did what that guy asked from her? I mean, it was obvious they were talking about Morgan's nude pics, he has all his other pics across the net visible. So that guy and that girl motivation and their actions are problematic to me as well

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The thirteen (13) year old girl's actions (which we don't even know if she even did anything, btw!) who was intimidated and pressured to keep quiet are as "problematic" as the adults' actions in this situation?

believed said:

The thirteen (13) year old girl's actions (which we don't even know if she even did anything, btw!) who was intimidated and pressured to keep quiet are as "problematic" as the adults' actions in this situation?

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I was talking about how the incident started. I'm not saying she is 'guilty' of something like all the others are, I'm just saying that she should have reported that Vinny guy immediately after their talk about 'pics'. If those informations I read about are correct.

Look at everyone commenting her situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the girl's first reaction was to stay quiet and hope it all went away. (It was what I did, when I was in her shoes).

Baron Vladimir said:

I was talking about how the incident started. I'm not saying she is 'guilty' of something like all the others are, I'm just saying that she should have reported that Vinny guy immediately after their talk about 'pics'. If those informations I read about are correct.

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We don't know the relationship between this Vinny and the girl ( and her friend, and perhaps other young female skaters at that rink ), or their dynamics in a trainer-pupil situation, nor the group dynamics within the girl's group (i.e. changing room talk about this guy being a hunk, that guy being a creep, etc. etc.). Pair skating allows the male partner all kinds of physical access to a girl's body, including her private parts. Girls instinctively know what is right or wrong, what is accidental and what is on purpose/creepy/pervy, and share this with their mates in the changing room.

And after a while a certain code forms that you need to keep this guy always in front of you, never allow him to be too close or alone with you. Observant parents present and watching training from behind the glass then get a feeling something is off with this guy just by watching the behaviour of the children in training.

But they pay a lot for training at this prestigious rink with this famous trainer and other international stars, so often ignore the signals for their own ambitions' sake, or tell the children to ignore it, or do nothing at all?

MalAssada said:

Look at everyone commenting her situation. I wouldn't be surprised if the girl's first reaction was to stay quiet and hope it all went away. (It was what I did, when I was in her shoes).

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But she didn't stay quiet, she actually did what that guy asked from her. So, she wanted to see them (which doesn't mean she is quilty of something, she is 13yo after all), or that guy wanted to see/use those pics and manipulated the girl to ask for them instead of him. Or his motivation was to make Morgan guilty from the very begining, or he is just in love with him

SmallAminal said:

There is a phenomenon with abuse victims where sometimes they make "false" allegations (either suggested by their real abuser or as a subconscious cry for help while they are still under the control of an abuser) that are actually a reference to something else that is *very real* going on with another person. So I think its *possible* that this specific allegation did not actually happen the way it is presented; however I really do think she is a victim of some kind of abuse. Also, if it turns out this is the case, its important not to blame her - again she's a child and she may be manipulated or groomed by someone and its not her fault. That's how abusers operate. Either way, it is so sad and I hope that she gets the support and help she needs - she was failed on many levels.

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This is absolutely disgusting. The defenders will find any excuse no matter how far-reaching to avoid admitting Cipres has done such a thing. Absolutely vulgar.

Baron Vladimir said:

why that girl didn't report his actions imidiately, but actually did what that guy asked from her? I mean, it was obvious they were talking about Morgan's nude pics, he has all his other pics across the net visible. So that guy and that girl motivation and their actions are problematic to me as well

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Baron Vladimir said:

I was talking about how the incident started. I'm not saying she is 'guilty' of something like all the others are, I'm just saying that she should have reported that Vinny guy immediately after their talk about 'pics'. If those informations I read about are correct.

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Baron Vladimir said:

But she didn't stay quiet, she actually did what that guy asked from her. So, she wanted to see them (which doesn't mean she is quilty of something, she is 13yo after all), or that guy wanted to see/use those pics and manipulated the girl to ask for them instead of him. Or his motivation was to make Morgan guilty from the very begining, or he is just in love with him

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This actually made me feel dirty reading it, absolutely disgusting and disgraceful. So now the girl is "problematic" because she most likely has been groomed by adults she should have been able to trust. Gross gross gross gross gross.

karne said:

This is absolutely disgusting. The defenders will find any excuse no matter how far-reaching to avoid admitting Cipres has done such a thing. Absolutely vulgar.







This actually made me feel dirty reading it, absolutely disgusting and disgraceful. So now the girl is "problematic" because she most likely has been groomed by adults she should have been able to trust. Gross gross gross gross gross.

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So you obviously didnt read what I said or get my point about supporting the victim. There are no "excuses" offered up here. I believe this girl to be a victim of abuse. It could be Cipres (the matter discussed in the article) OR someone else OR even BOTH or multiple abusers. I have no interest in defending an abuser - my point is that the allegation *in and of itself* is a sign of abuse and NEEDS to be taken seriously as it is a sign of abuse, whether by him or someone else. This girl needs support NO MATTER WHAT and we should not shame her if there turns out to be more to the story. You don't know if another predator is manipulating her and that is **JUST AS BAD**.

I myself have not seen any evidence so I don't know if it is one or multiple predators and who they all are. It doesnt matter though, SUPPORT THE VICTIM. Any and all reaponsible parties (including anyone who failed to report) deserve to rot in Hell.

Do not manipulate this into saying I am making excuses for anyone because I am not.

karne said:

This actually made me feel dirty reading it, absolutely disgusting and disgraceful. So now the girl is "problematic" because she most likely has been groomed by adults she should have been able to trust. Gross gross gross gross gross.

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I was just questioning her motivation, as motivation of other people involved there, but i was saying that her actions could be complitely normal with people of her age (to be curious at least and i see nothing wrong with it). My point was that people at her age should not trust all adults they see around, especially those ones who are talking with them about naked pics. If you think that every 13 yo don't want to see naked pics and that is gross, you should read child psychology. Actually, many of 13 yo are seeing those kind of pics in todays world. It's the world we leave in, we like it or not.

I only found out about this today, and I'm not shocked by it. I knew that the floodgates would open, and I'm sure that we'll be hearing about more charges of abuse and intimidation in the future.

It is my hope that this young woman is getting the help she needs to recover from this trauma, and that she one day gets a sense of peace and safety.

Baron Vladimir said:

I was just questioning her motivation, as motivation of other people involved there, but i was saying that her actions could be complitely normal with people of her age (to be curious at least and i see nothing wrong with it). My point was that people at her age should not trust all adults they see around, especially those ones who are talking with them about naked pics. If you think that every 13 yo don't want to see naked pics and that is gross, you should read child psychology. Actually, many of 13 yo are seeing those kind of pics in todays world. It's the world we leave in, we like it or not.

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Yes, young teens are curious about sex, and yes, young teens should not trust all adults, however, as a legal adult, Cipres should've been smart enough to know that he had no idea who the person was on the other end of that request, and should've kept his junk in his pants.

Once he decided to take that chance and risk, he became open to any possible consequence.

When I was in my 30s I joined a website (now gone) that was for gay people. Because there were so many young teens on that site, a special area was set up for them to talk with each other. However, they were still free to mix where the adult posters were active.

I received quite a few requests for "junk pics", or for conversations of a sexual nature, but I never answered any of them, because I was smart enough to realize that I had no idea who was on the other end of that request, or how old they truly were. As an adult, I had to protect the younger posters, as well as myself.

I often chatted with the young teens, and did my best to warn them of online predators, and to be very careful with who they trusted. But in the end, if a legal adult decides to take those steps with someone who may be underage, they only have themselves to blame, and can't use the defense that "i was only answering their request because they were curious."

Baron Vladimir said:

I was just questioning her motivation, as motivation of other people involved there, but i was saying that her actions could be complitely normal with people of her age (to be curious at least and i see nothing wrong with it). My point was that people at her age should not trust all adults they see around, especially those ones who are talking with them about naked pics. If you think that every 13 yo don't want to see naked pics and that is gross, you should read child psychology. Actually, many of 13 yo are seeing those kind of pics in todays world. It's the world we leave in, we like it or not.

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I can say from painful experience that her actions are normal.

Without going into too much detail, I was being sexually harassed by a man in his 20s when I was of a similar age.

I liked him, was flattered by his attention and did not even really stop to think how wrong it really was at first. Only when things got very very uncomfortable and even potentially dangerous did I get away from him and even then it took a long time to tell anyone what had happened. Then it took YEARS to accept that it wasn't my fault, that I had been very young and inexperienced and he tried to take advantage of that.

Back to this thread....I've left my dark place (some posters will know what I am referring to). The still dark place is that I can't see Morgan (and Vanessa) skating any more without thinking about him posting D picks, and wondering why that even is a thing to do.

Personally, I just don't understand why. Obviously, the sending to a 13-yr-old makes it a very bad thing indeed, but even so - I'm 53, I get these pictures in my inbox every so often, I get annoyed and wonder why anyone thinks I would be interested. To me, there's something wrong with a guy who sends them.

I'm not surprised at all that a young girl would be curious. I had crushes on much older guys when I was that age. They didn't act on it - they were ordinary guys in their 20's and not interested in school children. To me, that's the whole point. When you're in your late twenties you shouldn't act on little girl crushes. Let alone send them dirty pictures. And I'm not even going into this whole 'men's needs' thing. Yuck.

However, I agree with some earlier posters that we don't know for sure whether the dirty pictures were intended to be sent to a young girl. It's sickening in itself, and says something about one's character that such pictures are sent to anyone. I admit to being thoroughly shocked by the reactions of the coaches. There were so many things they could have done (even aside from reporting) but they chose to make life difficult for a little girl. Who had to get therapy because of this manipulation.

You know, I don't even care whether the pictures were sent because they were asked for (by promising a pizza, whatever) to a young girl, or sent spontaneously as a nice gig towards a mature woman. They were sent. Yuck. The whole notion is sickening, and the intended cover-up is worse. That's more awful than the disgusting pictures. How dare anyone threaten a little girl with 'you'll never skate again'? I have more problems with this part than the pictures in itself. Even though I can't watch the skating anymore without thinking about D picks and all that....

Baron Vladimir said:

While i don't approve Morgan, Sylvia and John actions and think they should be punished for them, the biggest problem i see in this case is in a way how it started. Why would that Vinny guy propose a girl something like that and what was his motivation behind it, and why that girl didn't report his actions imidiately, but actually did what that guy asked from her? I mean, it was obvious they were talking about Morgan's nude pics, he has all his other pics across the net visible. So that guy and that girl motivation and his actions are problematic to me as well

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I am sure or hope you didn't mean it to sound like the girl was some how responsible for what happened. She is a girl. The coaches are in a position of trust. She should have been able to rely on them for safety, wisdom and protection. They also had power over her in respect to her skating career/opportunities. Silvia and Jon if iis true interfered not only with the reporting with SafeSport but the police. That is a form of what can be seen as obstruction and or party to the crime of distributing "porn", corrupting a minor and and other similar type crimes depending on the laws of that State. I appreciate Jon and Silvia may not have realized fully the implications of what they were doing if they did try to dissuade the girl from reporting Morgan's alleged behaviour. That still doesn't make it right. i can empathize with this girl. She trusts her coaches or people in authority. i trusted the President of a bible college and all the teachers who were theologians / pastors. They too had control over my "career" and in many ways the coaches have lots of control or influence on the skaters skating career / life. With power comes responsibility - responsiblity to use the power wisely. I was told God would look bad and it would cost the church money as people wouldn't donate. I was told that my parents who aren't Christians would never be saved because it would make God look bad if I went to the police about what had happened. I can only imagine what a young girl would feel being told about not being believed, ruining lives and careers or being black listed or that it was her fault or she had something to do with it. I was older; I just have such empathy for this young person. I felt such guilt that if I told what was happening and how I was being treated people might lose their jobs and God would look bad. Likewise to have such pressure put on this girl - assuming it is true of course - is just horrible. Too much of a burden for a young person who should be nurtured and supported. People in positions of authority, trust need to use the power wisely - with kindness and grace. Skaters trust coaches and people in authority like a parent. In many ways I do not want to believe Vinny, Morgan, Jon and or silvia did anything. That this is somehow a misunderstanding A gold medal is not worth more than a life.

Mishaminion said:

I can say from painful experience that her actions are normal.

Without going into too much detail, I was being sexually harassed by a man in his 20s when I was of a similar age.

I liked him, was flattered by his attention and did not even really stop to think how wrong it really was at first. Only when things got very very uncomfortable and even potentially dangerous did I get away from him and even then it took a long time to tell anyone what had happened. Then it took YEARS to accept that it wasn't my fault, that I had been very young and inexperienced and he tried to take advantage of that.

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I am sorry for what you have gone through. May you continue to heal. The young person should not be blamed. She TRUSTED these people. The laws in Canada and the US have changed a lot as to how to examine sex related crimes. The Court is being told not to go on stereotypes ie she/he asked for it.

There is no set way how a survivor should react. Their feelings are real and you can't judge their reactions. So many things. If she sought the photos upon being coached should not be a reflection on her personally but her youthfulness and the grooming.


I hope you can somehow use your painful experience for good. That is my dream with my situation. I may never get "justice" or even an apology. I have lost everything - all my friends, my career and was forced or felt forced to change my name, career and move away from all my friends and family. I struggle each and every day - but I hope I can use what I have gone through to help others and maybe make the place a little better. I don't want to tell this young skater what to do or when to do it but despite my pain I have experienced great healing by forgiving the rapist - know that he was probably hurting and it is about power not sex. Forgiveness allows for freedom and healing. We can't control anything else but how we react. I wish this skater well and I wish you well.

They could even, simply, not have known what meant "d... pic".
A "usual" girl of 13 usually knows, but maybe not a girl whose life is on skates, first because they have less time, second because their puberty is often delayed (which makes things worse if Ciprès knew their ages, by the mean).

DizzyFrenchie said:

They could even, simply, not have known what meant "d... pic".
A "usual" girl of 13 usually knows, but maybe not a girl whose life is on skates, first because they have less time, second because their puberty is often delayed (which makes things worse if Ciprès knew their ages, by the mean).

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In this age of Instagram, Snapchat, TitTok, no child is unaware of these things anymore. Pre-teen children on social media fall into a cesspool of online paedophilia and child sex predation. Children boast about the number of followers, but probably don't know nor care about the fact that the majority of likes to their bikini photos from summer holiday are from male perverts from all over the world, with a huge predominance of certain cultures. Even then, parents and teachers should know about this, educate, warn and prevent. But children are generally curious and few parents actually do set up parental monitoring on their children's smartphones.

Can you please keep us informed on how the French federation, French domestic press and population responds to these allegations? Cipres and James are booked for some shows over the Christmas holidays after all.

Most girls, not all fortunately, this is what I meant. I agree, one of them is less unlikely than two of them in the same team.

French press told nothing about the whereabouts (Vinny Dispenza's luring the girls into asking such a photo, particularly) and I saw very little public response, if any. They are not as popular as Papadakis and Cizeron, maybe because skating is not that popular in France, and James and Ciprès didn't "win everything" as the formers.
We are an ingrate people, I am afraid.
But also, the press reports were so vague.

The reports are vague because the matter is under investigation.

I would not put much trust at this point into any source that is collecting and posting rumours and insider stories etc at this stage. What we had seen could be as much as we are going to see unless the matter does go before the courts, not end up being settled out of courts.

There was not a single verifiable statement that it could have been someone other than Cipres who had sent the pictures.

Deleted. Wrong thread.