Campbell's event announced officially

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 28, 2005

OK MM - I'll eat worms. I do remember it from your description and I also note that it was an international (somewhat) competition. The brightest stars of Russia came and collected the bucks and deservedly so.

I'll watch the Cheesefests but I won't take them seriously. I know the American skaters will not take any risks. They will skate the same routine as the year before to different music, and in their interview, they will say they will have to work on the program to have it ready for the Nationals. Do you think this year will be any different?

btw, if you do not stay up and watch the GPs then you are not a fs sportsfan.

Joe

CzarinaAnya · Jul 29, 2005

I love Campbell's. It really gives you an idea of who has been practicing hard and who has been kinda slackin' off during the summer months. Also, the programs are usually 3/4 or a little less of the way polished for the upcoming season. And if any skater does really well there, then, it sets a good tone for them for the even tougher competition after. :agree:

Mathman · Jul 29, 2005

Joesitz said:
btw, if you do not stay up and watch the GPs then you are not a fs sportsfan.

The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak, Joe.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2005

BTW, Joe, since you asked if anyone remembers what happens at the cheesefests, let me turn it around and ask the same thing about the Grand Prix. Without looking it up, who won the Trophee Eric Bompard last year?

I had to look it up. I refreshed my memory that Xiaodong Ma and Gheorghe Chiper achieved good results, but it was not such a successful competition for Alban Preubut, Sam Contesti and Gregor Urban (not that we got to see any of these skaters on TV).

In the ladies, Irina wasn't there, Michelle wasn't there, Sasha wasn't there, Shizuka wasn't there, so we got our wish of seeing some of the less well known performers. Well, we didn't exactly see them, but we could read about it on the Internet.

Carolina was there, finishing second.

It had a pretty strong pairs and dance field, though.

Well, the ISU says this is a big deal event. Must see TV. OK, if Speedy says so.

MM

antmanb · Jul 29, 2005

Mathman said:
BTW, Joe, since you asked if anyone remembers what happens at the cheesefests, let me turn it around and ask the same thing about the Grand Prix. Without looking it up, who won the Trophee Eric Bompard last year?

I had to look it up. I refreshed my memory that Xiaodong Ma and Gheorghe Chiper achieved good results, but it was not such a successful competition for Alban Preubut, Sam Contesti and Gregor Urban (not that we got to see any of these skaters on TV).

In the ladies, Irina wasn't there, Michelle wasn't there, Sasha wasn't there, Shizuka wasn't there, so we got our wish of seeing some of the less well known performers. Well, we didn't exactly see them, but we could read about it on the Internet.

Carolina was there, finishing second.

It had a pretty strong pairs and dance field, though.

Well, the ISU says this is a big deal event. Must see TV. OK, if Speedy says so.

MM

I can't remember the results and we're not lucky enough to get the GP shown here but i'll guess that Weir won the Mens (on the basis that i think he got france and russia last year as well as a third) and since all of the ladies you mentioned weren't there (i'd have picked Sasha had you not reminded me that she was out with injury) i'll guess it was one of Rochette's marvelous performances?

Ant

attyfan · Jul 29, 2005

Maybe, God had the times that the GP events were televised in mind when the idea for a VCR was put into somebody's mind. (Actually, since US TV only showed the free skates of the top 3 or 4 skaters, the fact that Kwan and Cohen didn't do the GP last year gave us the chance to see other skaters who don't have big names yet such as Phaneuf, Rochette and Pokiyo)

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 29, 2005

MM - I didn't look it up and Joannie's name jumped into my mind. However, I did not remember Carolina there. But I still contend the GPs have more bite than the Cheesefests (where we won't see all the skaters either and there are only 6 each.). Going live to Pittsburgh last year, I did see a 1st place win in the LP for Susanna over our beloved Angela which gave me cause to predict a top 10 place for Susanna in Worlds. I'm not going to see Susanna at any of the Cheesefests. That's my beef. I'm just wondering if she will be a top 5 in the Olys? But I have to see the GPs first.

Joe

Mathman · Jul 29, 2005

Attyfan, I even went out and bought one of those newfangled things (a VCR). Now if I could just figure out how to work it.

Well, I am going to stop picking on the Grand Prix. I just wish they would show it live or next day.

First prize for Antman -- Weir held on to first place despite being beaten by Joubert in the long. It was indeed one of Rochette's great performances. I hope she will be invited to the December Marshall's thing. That would be great. Last year, IIRC, Arakawa was invited, but withdrew. So they tried to replace her with Onda, but she withdrew, too. They were lucky to get local girl Alissa Czisny to fill in on the spur of the moment, and she did just fine.

That would be a great cast: Irina, Michelle, Sasha, Joannie, Susanna or Carolina, Fumie or Shizuka. Campbell's is still listed as an "International" event on the ISU web site, so we can hope for the best.

Mathman

vixen62025 · Jul 29, 2005

Joesitz said:
I'll watch the Cheesefests but I won't take them seriously. I know the American skaters will not take any risks. They will skate the same routine as the year before to different music, and in their interview, they will say they will have to work on the program to have it ready for the Nationals. Do you think this year will be any different?

:frown2: Irina and Plusy didn't show up to Marshall's doing their most difficult tech of the season, so what risks do you think they were taking? And indeed, most of their programs (as do many skaters who have been on the scene for so many years) tend to look very much alike season after season as well. Yes, skaters have made some modifications for CoP, but it's not like Plushy, Slute, Kwan, Cohen, Joubert, et al are setting the skating world on fire by completely innovating new moves: most have simply taken elements they always did and expanded on them. Which leads to one of my biggest gripes with CoP: With so much emphasis on wracking up the points, what is the difference between the SP and the FP, other than 90 or so seconds? Yes, there are a few interesting programs out there (Arakawa's "R&J", Rochette's "Firebird," Weir's "Otonal," Jahnke's "Grieg Piano Concerto") but too many skaters (including some of Russia's "brightest stars") have sacrified some of their artistry all for a couple of CoP points. That, to me, is a step back for figure skating, not a step forward.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2005

I completely agree about the short and long program, Vixen. In fact, I would go farther. I have seen quite a few short programs that are little artistic gems, while LPs seem to be about crowding in as many point-getting elements as possible.

This was true under ordinal judging, too. The SPs that Lori Nichol did for Michelle (Romanza, Dream of Desdemona, Rachmaninov, Fate of Carmen, A Day in the Life -- also Michelle's later program, the Feeling Begins), in my opinion blew the corresponding LPs out of the water. Also Lori's SPs for Fumie in the last four years.

To me, the SP is like a sonnet. You wouldn't think you could create much poetry inside such a straight-jacketed form: exactly 14 lines of iambic pentameter, with such-and-such required rhyme scheme. Yet the form has produced a surprising number of artistic gems, both by great poets and by some who are merely skillful craftsmen.

I love short programs.

Plus, four or four-and-a-half minutes is a long time sustain interest. I often find my mind drifting when it gets down to the seventh or eighth jumping pass.

Mathman

emma · Jul 29, 2005

Mathman said:
I completely agree about the short and long program, Vixen. In fact, I would go farther. I have seen quite a few short programs that are little artistic gems, while LPs seem to be about crowding in as many point-getting elements as possible.

This was true under ordinal judging, too. The SPs that Lori Nichol did for Michelle (Romanza, Dream of Desdemona, Rachmaninov, Fate of Carmen, A Day in the Life -- also Michelle's later program, the Feeling Begins), in my opinion blew the corresponding LPs out of the water. Also Lori's SPs for Fumie in the last four years.

To me, the SP is like a sonnet. You wouldn't think you could create much poetry inside such a straight-jacketed form: exactly 14 lines of iambic pentameter, with such-and-such required rhyme scheme. Yet the form has produced a surprising number of artistic gems, both by great poets and by some who are merely skillful craftsmen.

I love short programs.

Plus, four or four-and-a-half minutes is a long time sustain interest. I often find my mind drifting when it gets down to the seventh or eighth jumping pass.

Mathman

I couldn't agree more (although, I never would have come up with that great analogy)!!!

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 29, 2005

MM - I really enjoyed your dissertation on the SP. You might think about sending it into International Figure Skating .

I would like to see the SP change or disappear. It doesn't really serve it's original purpose. My suggestion would be boring to about 99% of the fans but it would have some merit in determining a winner. Every skater in the event should skate to the same music and have one spin or jump be executed on both sides.

Joe

wvgal57 · Jul 29, 2005

Marshall's December 04

Irina Slutskaya came off a hectic Grand Prix circuit of which she won 2 gold medals, fought through jetlag and a knee injury and still was able to fire off 7 triples at the Marshalls event.

I'd hardly call that showing up without all her technical. True she didn't fire off any 3/3's but she probably didn't think she needed them.

I rather suspected Irina would be very exhausted and at a slight disadvantage against all the well rested ladies.

Mathman · Jul 29, 2005

Yet Irina was full of energy and enthusiasm, compared to a rather blah Kwan (no one else was in the running that night). Both Irina and Evgeni are very popular with that particular crowd. Irina has won it twice and Evgeni three times.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Irina were to jump on the plane in Japan after the Japanese International and fly to St. Paul for Campbell's.

Mathman

attyfan · Jul 29, 2005

wvgal57 said:
Irina Slutskaya came off a hectic Grand Prix circuit of which she won 2 gold medals, fought through jetlag and a knee injury and still was able to fire off 7 triples at the Marshalls event ...

I rather suspected Irina would be very exhausted and at a slight disadvantage against all the well rested ladies.

IMO, the thrill of returning to the sport she loved after such a long illness would probably be a tremendous energy boost.

JunJohn21 · Jul 29, 2005

Mathman said:
Yet Irina was full of energy and enthusiasm, compared to a rather blah Kwan (no one else was in the running that night). Both Irina and Evgeni are very popular with that particular crowd. Irina has won it twice and Evgeni three times.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Irina were to jump on the plane in Japan after the Japanese International and fly to St. Paul for Campbell's.

Mathman

Don't forget that Kwan had boot problems right before her performance. She didn't even finish warming up and had to leave the ice to fix her boots.

flowjo35 · Jul 30, 2005

JunJohn21 said:
Don't forget that Kwan had boot problems right before her performance. She didn't even finish warming up and had to leave the ice to fix her boots.

That's right JunJohn, I forgot about that. I remember them showing Michelle backstage trying to get her boot or foot together and the commentators stating that she was having a problem. I don't think for one minute that Michelle did not want to give her best with this field of skaters.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 30, 2005

So many excuses in this sport of figure skating: back problems, new boots, too far to travel, food poisoning, puberty, what else?

Yet, the Russian skaters push onwards despite adversities. for them, it is not a 'girlie' sport.

Joe

flowjo35 · Jul 30, 2005

Joesitz said:
So many excuses in this sport of figure skating: back problems, new boots, too far to travel, food poisoning, puberty, what else?

Yet, the Russian skaters push onwards despite adversities. for them, it is not a 'girlie' sport.

Joe

Joe, no excuses are being made, some were just responding to previous posts and stating what they remember about that event. These skaters do not need excuses. They are world class in the sport.

nymkfan51 · Jul 30, 2005

Gee Joe, you really seem to have a low opinion of our top American ladies. :disapp:

Campbell's event announced officially

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