Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season | Page 745 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

Status
Not open for further replies.
There was a Japanese doctor based in Toronto who supported Yuzu during the previous seasons with necessary treatments like massage, physiotherapy, etc. Prior to the season 2015-16 that person announced via Twitter that he decided not to renew his contract with Yuzu, no reasonable explanation was given at that time.
Could you elaborate on that episode? I don't recall it at all. My memory is not good.:rolleye:
 
There was a Japanese doctor based in Toronto who supported Yuzu during the previous seasons with necessary treatments like massage, physiotherapy, etc. Prior to the season 2015-16 that person announced via Twitter that he decided not to renew his contract with Yuzu, no reasonable explanation was given at that time.
Ah, I remember that. Thank you.;)
 
From what you've written it seems like you think I blame Yuzu for the choice he has made. Well, you did not get my point at all. I know he's a warrior. I wonder who actually treats him this time.

I'm sorry that I missed your point.

About who treats him now, he won't make a public announcement about his doctor. It's not professional for his doctor publicize Yuzu's treatment either.
 
About who treats him now, he won't make a public announcement about his doctor. It's not professional for his doctor publicize Yuzu's treatment either.
There are other ways to learn that information. Like, for example, from the official gratitudes from Yuzu or his team.:)
 
I think he knows he needs to heal completely, which is why he is going under the radar and skipping all ice shows.

But what if skipping the shows won’t give him enough time to heal completely?

But he himself knows what is at stake and the direction of the sport is progressing. He mentioned in his post-WC interview and I quote : "First, I’d like to increase the difficulty of my programs. I WILL increase the difficulty of my programs. Half-way through the season, I was able to do most of the things I set out to achieve. This is why I have to aim higher. It made me want to become stronger than ever." (from yuzusorbet trans, skipped some part).
I assumed it is out of the question that he will increase his tech content? Plus, he had trouble with his toe-pick jump due to his injury, doing an edge jump like a 4Lo probably would be an option for him to lessen the stress on his injured toe-pick foot. Brian also said in his interview about a plan to add 4Lo and move one quad to the 2nd half. It's not like Yuzuru never landed 4Lo before, he has already landed it multiple times in practice and shows, he just needs to get used to it. (though 4Lo means... poor hip)

If he’s already been doing 4Lo, it’ll certainly be easier for him to put it into a program than if he needed to learn it from scratch. I’m very glad to find it he has a way of uping his tech content this season without having to learn a new quad – thank you for the info! Moving a quad into the second half of the program seems doable and not injury-inducing, provided he has enough time to develop the needed stamina.

I doubt he will do 4 quads, especially after his injury, but reading his interview, he himself feel that he needs to keep progressing otherwise he won't feel challenged.

I hope he’ll find a different way to feel challenged than to add a forth quad to his LP!

Also there are some inaccurate things that you mentioned:
-Yuzuru did not add his 2nd triple axel in between GPF and world. That is javier. Yuzuru literally always have 2 planned 3As in the LP in almost his entire senior career. The only change he made in this season planned LP was the 4S, and that was because he already had problem with his mid-foot for the toe-pick jump, so he did less 4T.

I’m sorry, you’re right, I didn’t make accurate enough notes.

Shoma had already have higher BV than Yuzuru since TCC. He did a 4F+4T in SP and 4F+2 4T in the LP. Also, looking at his new layout in his FaOI ice shows, it does seem like he is setting for a 4-quad LP. His problem is not the quad though, he has quite bad jump landings and lack of transitions, keeping him from getting max GOEs and high TR component score. But you know what will happen when he fix this, he will also be rewarded. Though this layout seems highly injury-prone.

When did Shoma do 4F4T in SP and 4F2 in LP? I checked the protocols, just in case, and according to them, he did one quad toe-loop in SP and two quad too-loops in LP at SA, GPF, 4CC and Worlds. He also did one quad toe-loop in SP at TEB (there was no LP< of course.)

I think he is more likely to get more severe injuries by having a long break between national and WC. 4CC doesn't have much prestige. Almost all top skaters skip 4CC. So GPF is the 2nd most important competition in a non-Olympic season. If at the beginning of the season, he knew he will have 5 competitions in the 1st half of the season and only 1 competition after national with a 3 months break, he will end up pushing himself a lot more before national because he knows he can rest and recover after national. If he plans to attend 4CC right from the beginning of the season, he won't push himself as hard in the 1st half of the season because he knows he has a long season ahead. He will still get injuries, but his injuries would not be as bad as the injuries he gets when he doesn't plan to go to 4CC right from the beginning of the season.

Somebody needs to save him from himself! Like his mother, Orser, other staff at the rink.

His injuries in 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 seasons are more severe than his injuries in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 season when he did 4CC and Olympics between national and WC.

I think it’s fairly common for skaters to get more severe injuries as their career progresses and the stress on the body increases and accumulates.

I'm so busy to keep up with the thread but I just wanted to share that I had a weird vivid dream where Yuzuru skip the whole GP Series and attend Japanese Nationals, won there and got send to 4CC and World then won at both events qualifying 3 spots for Japan. The funny thing is before all the events, I was even at the cricket club and Brian told me (which is weird I mean who am I for Brian to tell such thing :laugh2:) that due to Yuzu's injury they decided to try a new tactic to make sure Yuzu peak at World and since he got 4 GPF title so its ok to skip and also it give a chance for Yuzuru to heal fully.

I hope your dream comes true!

I don't think it's a good idea to skip the GPs. He won't have enough competition to practice his layouts in competition. We can't expect him to execute a new harder layout perfectly by skipping competitions. It took him 15-20 competitions to stabilize his 4S. Skipping GPs is only a good idea if he doesn't plan to up his tech and only tries to stick to the safe layout until the Olympics (Doing a safe layout at the Olympics means he is pretty much guaranteed to lose unless everybody bombs. Judges will not give the gold to a defending champ who doesn't have harder layout than his rivals. All of his rivals are upping their tech. He can't stay stagnant.) or if his summer schedule is too over-loaded like in the summer after the Olympics.

He can do a B competition in December before Nationals. If there are some competitions in Japan after Nationals for skaters who haven’t made the team, he can also do one of these, if he feels he needs an extra competition before Worlds. Or there may be some in Canada which are open to foreigners. If the worst comes to worst, Orser can organize a competition between Hanyu and Fernandez on their rink and invite the local public, if Fernandez agrees, of course.

And he can always up his tech content before the Olympic season, if his health doesn’t allow him to do it this season.

He tried easier tech when he was younger and physically weaker. He tried harder tech when he is older. But he also physically grew stronger. So the amount of risk he takes is proportional to his physical strength.

Every athlete knows he has to take risk to win medals. No pain, no gain. He already knew before he practiced those layouts, that's the outcome he would get when he attempts those difficult tech and trains intensively. Unless he regrets the medals he received and have regrets about his WR performances, I don't think there is anything ironic about it.

It's normal he feels pain. That's the price he pays if he wants to win. If a person wins major championship by taking little risk, he will pay later (in some other ways). There is no such thing as a free lunch.

Pain is not just an unpleasant sensation. It’s the organism’s way of telling the person that something is wrong. I think we all know the cases when skaters thought feeling pain was normal, with sad or tragic results (Michelle Kwan, Rachael Flatt, Alexei Yagudin who was lucky to get a career-ending injury soon after Salt Lake rather than a bit before it, Dmitri Shabalin, Evgeni Plushenko, to say nothing of Sergei Grinkov).

I’m sure Hanyu doesn’t regret winning gold medals and setting WR with the price he’s paid so far, but if he had found himself unable to compete at top level again or at all, I think he would have preferred he’d won fewer medals and set fewer WRs between Sochi and Korea, but was still in the condition to up his content in the Olympic season and be in the running for the gold.

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?59728-ISU-votes-to-abolish-anonymous-judging/page6

Someone found a series academic papers that studied subjectively judged sports. The bias and collusion in judging is statistically significant to change the final placements. The compatriot judge is not just one person. Federations form voting blocs and trade votes. So whoever has more connection and long term partnerships will receive more generous judging.

I tried to think that the abnormal judging is just one outlier at one particular competition. But the judging just got worse and worse towards the end of the season. After this season, I don't believe in the judges any more. The judges simply don't care about fairness. They didn't even try to be fair. They just gave out scores however they like to boost the skaters they are told to favor. Who can be sure that these judges will actually follow the rules/guidelines? They are not rewarded for following the rules and they are not punished for violating the rules. How can Yuzuru leave his fate to these judges' hand and rely on judges' mercy to give the scores he and his rivals deserve?

Personally, I think the most flagrant cases of unfair judging this season resulted from having Worlds in a country with medal contenders, an undue influence by the rumored next president of ISU, and a national federation sabotaging its own skaters due to internal intrigues. None of this affected men’s competitions, though, and none of this are likely to be problems in the upcoming season.

However, I agree with you that no skater can afford to pitch his hopes on fair judging. I just think that if Hanyu doesn’t heal properly in time to prepare for GP and/or to up his tech content this season, he can do so next season.
 
BTW, does anyone know the sourse of the photo #4? He had a cap and black outfits.

I can only find this clip for now, there was a slightly longer footage which I've seen where he was coming down the van into the hotel. Cannot recall whether this was at Worlds.


When did Shoma do 4F4T in SP and 4F2 in LP? I checked the protocols, just in case, and according to them, he did one quad toe-loop in SP and two quad too-loops in LP at SA, GPF, 4CC and Worlds. He also did one quad toe-loop in SP at TEB (there was no LP< of course.)
Team Challenge Trophy where he increased his tech.
- The protocol for SP @page18 his BV 51.31 vs Yuzu's BV @GPF 47.45 @NHK 48.05.
- The protocol for LP can be found here with a bit of manoeuvre: click Sat Apr 23 Men's Group 3 Final --> click + beside Uno's 192.2 score. His BV 95.38 vs Yuzu's BV @GPF 95.19 @NHK 95.79.
 
Last edited:
Did you already see this?: http://www.rinkresults.com/skater?skater_id=344

It is interesting because you can see results and video of the performances side by side for each skater and each competition, so that you can compare better.

Frankly, some votes among the top skaters (and specifically among Yuzuru and Javier) for me are a little surprising, not only for the jumps but also for the Stpsq and the transitions and mostly between GPF and Worlds...
Anyway you can also see that for Yuzuru there is still room to improve also in GOE, mostly in the LP/FP and I am sure that he will.

Good day to everyone and thank you @Alia for all the news and the new fanart images :).
 
Team Challenge Trophy where he increased his tech.
- The protocol for SP @page18 his BV 51.31 vs Yuzu's BV @GPF 47.45 @NHK 48.05.
- The protocol for LP can be found here with a bit of manoeuvre: click Sat Apr 23 Men's Group 3 Final --> click + beside Uno's 192.2 score. His BV 95.38 vs Yuzu's BV @GPF 95.19 @NHK 95.79.

Yes, thank you, I've found the protocols for Team Challenge Cup:
SP: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2016/23073/SEGM017.html
LP: http://www.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2016/23073/SEGM028.html

Shoma did 4F and 4T3T in the SP and 4F, 4T and 4T1T in the LP. No combos with the quad flip, but it's still very impressive that he's learned to do it. He, unlike Fernandez, has made a public statement to the effect that he'd like to win over Hanyu. Personally, I just hope that their ambitions won't lead to serious, career-threatening injuries for either of them, and that we'll see them both, and Fernandez, Chan and Jin in Korea in good health to compete.

(I'm repeating the links with spaces, in case the editing program breaks them.)
SP: ht tp://www.usfigureskating. org/leaderboard/results/2016/23073/SEGM017.html
LP: ht tp://www.usfigureskating. org/leaderboard/results/2016/23073/SEGM028.html
 
It's from Jounetsu Tairiku around 14:00 (after NYOI).

Thanks Mikaboo, I didn't realised it was from Jounetsu Tairiku because there were so many moments in that program including he didn't want his injury to be made public.

------------

Red Cross's Love In Action
To promote young people to donate blood aggressively, Japan Red Cross kicked off an event of "World Blood Donor Day" on June 14 and the organizer had a "love in Action Meeting" in Tokyo on June 13. At the event arena, a life size of Yuzu-Red-Cross-Ambassador standee at the JRC booth welcomed 4,500 audience to participate and show their love in action. - credit Echo Cheng @YHIFG

2013 Canon Advertisement
"Only Canon's high speed photographing technology can capture the shininess of this rising star." :love:
In 2013, Yuzu made an advertisement for Canon EOS professional cameras. They chose a wonderful shot while he was flying. A fan shared the advert page of flying Yuzu - credit Echo Cheng @YHIFG
 
Last edited:
There was a Japanese doctor based in Toronto who supported Yuzu during the previous seasons with necessary treatments like massage, physiotherapy, etc. Prior to the season 2015-16 that person announced via Twitter that he decided not to renew his contract with Yuzu, no reasonable explanation was given at that time.

I thought he was not a doctor. Mr. Aoshima is 整体師 seitaishi in Japanese. I'm not sure about the English term. Physical therapist?

http://xxhuyuzero.blog.jp/archives/44131386.html

I think Mr. Kikuchi is also a Seitaishi.
 
I thought he was not a doctor. Mr. Aoshima is 整体師 seitaishi in Japanese. I'm not sure about the English term. Physical therapist?

http://xxhuyuzero.blog.jp/archives/44131386.html

I think Mr. Kikuchi is also a Seitaishi.
Yes, he may not be a "doctor" but usually physical therapists have a great knowledge in their field. I think he was the one who explained Yuzu in great detail and in Japanese how back problems could influence Yuzu's performance and overall condition prior to season 2014-2015 when Yuzu skipped Finlandia trophy.
 
But what if skipping the shows won’t give him enough time to heal completely?

If he’s already been doing 4Lo, it’ll certainly be easier for him to put it into a program than if he needed to learn it from scratch. I’m very glad to find it he has a way of uping his tech content this season without having to learn a new quad – thank you for the info! Moving a quad into the second half of the program seems doable and not injury-inducing, provided he has enough time to develop the needed stamina.

I hope he’ll find a different way to feel challenged than to add a forth quad to his LP!
Then he can skip the GP :). Though I still think skipping GP is unlikely as of now. Earliest GP is still in late October, even if he only start learning his program by July/August, which means that he already has 4 months of full rest, he still has the time. Granted this mean his GP series will likely be a disaster, but this could probably work in his favor, considering last season he peaked way too early (at NHK and GPF). It would be lovely if he can peak at 4CC and world, since this is exactly what he needs to do during oly season. Actually, a disastrous yuzu as of now is still probably going to score +/- 270-280 pts, which should be enough to medal and qualify for GPF (unless it was like, 14/15 kind of GP disaster). Not even a lot of men's personal best reach 280, honestly.

Also, even if he wants to add a 4th quad, he has to add in the 4Lo first. Personally I don't see the value in moving a quad in the 2nd half in the FP if he still opt for a 3 quad program (more risk, not much reward in extra BV), but it is plausible to do it in the SP to gain an extra 1-1.4 pt in BV without too much risk (he is capable of doing 4-3 in the 2nd half of LP already, in SP it's theoretically shouldn't be an issue).

I also think adding a 4th quad is not as horrendous of an idea as a lot of people think, considering Yuzuru landed >dozen quads a day. At worlds he landed quads after quads at runthrough, practice and warm up that if added up it might have amount to... a lot. What he needs to do is to reduce the amount attempted overall. Knowing he still attempted 4Lzs and landed multiple 4Los,4Ss, 4Ts during 2016 NYOI when he was already injured, makes me can't help but think he has the tendency to overtrain and someone need to put a leash on him. :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
I think he is more likely to get more severe injuries by having a long break between national and WC. 4CC doesn't have much prestige. Almost all top skaters skip 4CC.
I found this situation to be really ironic. :biggrin: Had everyone decided to go, 4CC would have been worlds minus Javier and the Russians for single skating. Europeans was considered prestigious before but the current situation actually is the top contenders in single skating has shifted towards the east + North America more now (except for Javi and the Russian ladies of course). Russian and Japan Nats look more of a bloodbath compared to current European.
I think doing 4CC this year is a good idea for him, not necessarily to complete his gold medal collection or the fact that it is an Olympic venue, but it is also because the timing is exactly the same with oly the next year. He could use it as a test to tune his peaking during this period. :biggrin:
 
He can do a B competition in December before Nationals. If there are some competitions in Japan after Nationals for skaters who haven’t made the team, he can also do one of these, if he feels he needs an extra competition before Worlds. Or there may be some in Canada which are open to foreigners. If the worst comes to worst, Orser can organize a competition between Hanyu and Fernandez on their rink and invite the local public, if Fernandez agrees, of course.

And he can always up his tech content before the Olympic season, if his health doesn’t allow him to do it this season.

Doing senior B doesn't help him to be consistent with new jumps. He failed every attempt of 4S in the first two seasons he attempted them. The only time he landed 4S as at Finlandia, a senior B competition, and he barely landed one at 2014 WC. Senior Bs, national or information competitions have low pressure or no pressure. It's not real practice under pressure. Landing 4Lo in senior Bs doesn't mean he can land it in senior A. Increasing tech difficulty only at the Olympic season is a worse choice because it means he will have almost no time to get used to a new quad and new layout.

His injuries are not that serious that it will take over 6 months to heal. He has already started rehab and on-ice training.
 
Doing senior B doesn't help him to be consistent with new jumps. He failed every attempt of 4S in the first two seasons he attempted them. The only time he landed 4S as at Finlandia, a senior B competition, and he barely landed one at 2014 WC. Senior Bs, national or information competitions have low pressure or no pressure. It's not real practice under pressure. Landing 4Lo in senior Bs doesn't mean he can land it in senior A. Increasing tech difficulty only at the Olympic season is a worse choice because it means he will have almost no time to get used to a new quad and new layout.

His injuries are not that serious that it will take over 6 months to heal.He has already started rehab and on-ice training.

Really? What are your sources?
 
I found this situation to be really ironic. :biggrin: Had everyone decided to go, 4CC would have been worlds minus Javier and the Russians for single skating. Europeans was considered prestigious before but the current situation actually is the top contenders in single skating has shifted towards the east + North America more now (except for Javi and the Russian ladies of course). Russian and Japan Nats look more of a bloodbath compared to current European.
I think doing 4CC this year is a good idea for him, not necessarily to complete his gold medal collection or the fact that it is an Olympic venue, but it is also because the timing is exactly the same with oly the next year. He could use it as a test to tune his peaking during this period. :biggrin:

It's a vicious cycle. 4CC is not prestigious, so all top skaters skip 4CC. Because all top skaters skip 4CC, 4CC remains unimportant. Many skaters don't think 4CC has any value. I think all eligible skaters from non-European countries will compete at next year's 4CC. Nobody will skip this one. Doing 4CC can definitely help him to peak at the Olympics. In 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 seasons, when he did 4CC/Olympics, he was in good physical condition at both 4CC and Olympics. (But he gave sub-par performances due to nerve.) He only got injured after 4CC/Olympics, before WC. Once he skipped 4CC in 2014-2015 season, his injuries appeared much earlier in the season, before GPF and national because he pushed himself harder in the 1st half of the season. I do think the timing of his injuries depends on his competition schedule, not his layout. If he has a more evenly spread out competition schedule (not with a big break between national and WC), the intensity of his training would be different. He wouldn't train as intensively in the first half of the season like he did in the last two seasons. He was already injured at NHK this season because he lost SC and practiced like mad after that. Competing against his close rival in early GP is definitely not a good idea.

I think his performance pattern next season will probably be similar to his performance pattern in 2012-2013 season. His competition schedule next season will be similar to his competition schedule in the 2012-2013 season. In 2012-2013 season, he changed the layout of both his sp and LP. His did solo 4t instead of 4t3t in the SP. The layout didn't become much harder. He added a new type of quad 4S to the LP. Next season, I think he will move the 4S to the 2nd half of the SP. The SP layout won't be significantly more difficult than the layout he had this season. He will add 4Lo to the LP. I think he will try 3 quads in the 1st half of the season and 4 quads in the 2nd half if possible. I don't think he will be injury free at next WC. He will still need give a fight, but I expect his next WC performance to be better than this year's WC performance. (I think he will have a sub-par SP and fight back in the LP at next WC like he did in the past.)
 
Last edited:
Someone said that a few pages back. I think the source is his most recent interview.

Someone here said she saw it was mentioned in the facebook group that Yuzu has started on ice training based on a magazine article. I saw that comment in facebook too. However, the magazine source was unknown (i.e. not mentioned) thus; it could not be verified for accuracy which is why I would not use that info. I remembered Hanmgse also ask for the source of the magazine/article when it was first mentioned here.

Edit: I've checked with the fan that mentioned that in facebook. She said she cannot recall where she read it and also not sure if she understood the Japanese properly. It was a bit vague and that was why she did not make a post and translate it properly (she only commented on someone else's post). She said she may have misunderstood it.

------

In regards to the injury, I would consider this injury to be worst than his surgery and recuperation for the bladder urachus as this one directly impact his skating and long term usage of the foot (for skating).
 
Last edited:
I also think I read somewhere that his progress was slower than he expected, and his foot still hurt, but he still went on ice by the end of May to skate a little, as part of the recuperation. I'm very sure that I am not imagining this, but I don't remember the source.

Also, usually lisfranc injury is not a severe type of injury. If treated in the proper way, his foot should be completely fine in 6 weeks. It shouldn't be worse than the COC accident.:scratch2:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top