Skaters and Profanity

Ducky said:

Swearing salts the language.

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I love this and will probably use it at some point in the future, haha.

I can swear like a sailor (when it's not entirely inappropriate to do so, obviously) and take umbrage with the equating of profanity with intelligence. One has nothing to do with the other. Would I drop an F-bomb in my grandfather's eulogy? No. Have I dropped an F-bomb on stage at Comic Con during a panel (I'm a writer and was there to promote a book)? Yup. Have I included profanity in my books? You bet! Does any of this mean I have a limited vocabulary? Nope!

It's all about context. We can grumble about kids these days until the end of time (and probably will) but profanity is an organically occurring subset of any language and the evolution of it from a linguistic perspective is actually pretty fascinating.

In short: I love words. Even the bad ones.

el henry said:

I feel if someone feels the need to write "s***" instead of "stuff"....

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I am quite unreasonably fond of grawlixes (those typographical symbols standing in for swearing) in those cases...
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grawlix.jpg
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/asterixlegionnaire_jurons.jpg

... though as it has been pointed out many times, that - like bleeps and asterixes - they are a bit like visual euphemisms and everyone mentally hears what they're replacing anyway

TallyT said:

I am quite unreasonably fond of grawlixes (those typographical symbols standing in for swearing) in those cases...
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grawlix.jpg
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/asterixlegionnaire_jurons.jpg

... though as it has been pointed out many times, that - like bleeps and asterixes - they are a bit like visual euphemisms and everyone mentally hears what they're replacing anyway

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I never knew they had a name, and I like them too.:thumbsup:

It may be that everyone replaces them in their mind, but they’re clever. And making someone use their mind is a good thing

CoyoteChris said:

You live in a different world down there. Young people here almost never hold open doors for others at say, the post office. Car Deaths by teens here have increased 9 percent cause they cant seem to grasp the idea that you cant text while driving without showing disrespect for yourself and others. Young males here have no issues with giving up their lives by killing others...., men, women and children, for no apparent real reason, although I suppose London must be included in that as well as Kazakhstan and Mexico and many other countries. Parents and coaches brawl over pee wee football games.....

Consider yourself lucky that you live in a country where, like Canada, Switzerland, and Japan, kids can go to school without a fear of being killed. I could be wrong, but show me the piles of dead kids in Japan, attacked in their schools by other kids with samurai
swords. They have had to be banned in England.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7331099.stm
(We do now have politicians that seem to think swearing is appropriate in public)

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This whole forum knows that I'm a teenager, so I'll just chime in to say that the experiences you describe do not represent our entire generation, nor does it even represent most of us

Spirals for Miles said:

This whole forum knows that I'm a teenager, so I'll just chime in to say that the experiences you describe do not represent our entire generation, nor does it even represent most of us

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You are correct. It is bad to generalize and stereotype no matter how many "studies" one sees on the TV news. There are loads of good young people out there.
Point well taken. I know a number of young folk and young adults I am very proud of due to their manners and ways of treating people. And many older folk I am not so proud of. While I don’t feel qualified to comment on the majority of say 18 year olds, I would give this advice to young folk and some not so young I know of or have watched. For 69 years I have watched. I try and learn from others successes and mistakes. I flatter myself that I have learned a bit about life from others and my own mistakes and successes.
1. When some one does you a kindness, thank them. If I do a small kindness for say Mathman, he thanks me. I appreciate that. I have done things for younger members of this forum without much response.
2. When you are introduced to an adult, pull out the earplugs, put down the phone, and actually talk for a minute. Don’t say, “Yeah, well, whatever” and walk away.
3. Treat others around you as people, not as hindering blobs of nameless flesh. If you pass through a door, look behind you and hold it open if someone comes behind you. Don’t just look down at your phone and dash through the door being held open for YOU.
4. Valley talk isn’t forever. It is not your friend. There have always been young people sayings. “Beat me, Daddy,” “23 skidoo” and “ Oh you kid…”…where are they now? If you become a young TV reporter and have to ad lib in a fast situation, saying things such as, “Like, ya know, uh” will not help you get to a bigger market. Learn to be articulate. It cant hurt and may help you.
5. Learn to respect others. In Japan, children are taught repect for others and themselves. I was taught to respect others. That seems to have gone out the window now and “attitude” , especially bad attitude, seems to be in favor. Good attitude can take you far. I am not that smart. But I learned about good attitude in my 20s. I went from living in an old 10x35 ft dilapidated travel trailer to where I am today not due to my smarts but due to my attitude. To paraphrase Jimmy Stewart’s character in the movie, “Harvey”…”In this world you have to be very smart or very pleasant”
If you don’t accept any or all of these five points, I suggest you go back in time and talk to Maia Shibutani when she was 13. Or now. And see what she says……she is very smart AND very pleasant.

Sam-Skwantch said:

I don’t speak Russian but I think Zhenya let fly with some creative language at JGPF in Barcelona. She was waiting for Eteri to negotiate that weird maze to the KnC and then when Eteri finally appeared she told her how she about a the Salchow she had issues with or something like that.

https://youtu.be/HXYG8fnh0bk?t=4m51s

IIRC:

Zhenya: I don’t give a :curse: about that jump

Eteri: Zhenya!! Cameras!!

Zhenya : :


Any Russian speakers care to correct my memory. I thought it was hilarious and wasn’t offended at all. In fact..I like her attitude in this instance.

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A most interesting observation! Eteri knows of what I speak.....

Personally, I think public figures should use very minimal profanity in their public lives. Call me old fashioned, but I think some degree of professionalism and decorum should be displayed by them anywhere that can be viewed by the rest of the world.

That being said, I completely disagree that profanity is somehow correlated to one's education level. I think it's more of a cultural and personality thing. My parents have advanced degrees and swear like sailors. (Somehow I turned out never saying anything worse than "crap" and having to spell out the word "sex". Must be a recessive gene.) I had a few pottymouthed professors as well.

CoyoteChris said:

I wouldnt want JFK to stand up at inaugeration and say "We will beat the F-ing Russians to the moon, not because it is easy, but because it is F-ing hard."

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That actually might have backfired and somewhat endeared him to quite a few Russians.

As for Eteri, notice she only warned Zhenya about the cameras, she didn't say anything about the swearing itself!

Mathman said:

Ask not what your m*****-f***ing country can do for you."

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This is so perfect, I'm sad it didn't happen.

TallyT said:

I am quite unreasonably fond of grawlixes (those typographical symbols standing in for swearing) in those cases...
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Grawlix.jpg
https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/asterixlegionnaire_jurons.jpg

... though as it has been pointed out many times, that - like bleeps and asterixes - they are a bit like visual euphemisms and everyone mentally hears what they're replacing anyway

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And Asterix and Obelix are perfect, too.

chopinskate said:

And Asterisk and Obelisk are perfect, too.

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But of course!!!

CoyoteChris said:

1. When some one does you a kindness, thank them. If I do a small kindness for say Mathman, he thanks me. I appreciate that. I have done things for younger members of this forum without much response.
2. When you are introduced to an adult, pull out the earplugs, put down the phone, and actually talk for a minute. Don’t say, “Yeah, well, whatever” and walk away.
3. Treat others around you as people, not as hindering blobs of nameless flesh. If you pass through a door, look behind you and hold it open if someone comes behind you. Don’t just look down at your phone and dash through the door being held open for YOU.
4. Valley talk isn’t forever. It is not your friend. There have always been young people sayings. “Beat me, Daddy,” “23 skidoo” and “ Oh you kid…”…where are they now? If you become a young TV reporter and have to ad lib in a fast situation, saying things such as, “Like, ya know, uh” will not help you get to a bigger market. Learn to be articulate. It cant hurt and may help you.
5. Learn to respect others. In Japan, children are taught repect for others and themselves. I was taught to respect others. That seems to have gone out the window now and “attitude” , especially bad attitude, seems to be in favor. Good attitude can take you far. I am not that smart. But I learned about good attitude in my 20s. I went from living in an old 10x35 ft dilapidated travel trailer to where I am today not due to my smarts but due to my attitude. To paraphrase Jimmy Stewart’s character in the movie, “Harvey”…”In this world you have to be very smart or very pleasant”

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Let me tell you a story that happened only a few hours ago.

I finished work early. I had been intending to go to the rink, but I had a headache, and thought better of it. I stopped at a cafe in the bus interchange to get some dinner before I went home. Towing my skate bag - a carry-on size wheelie suitcase - all the while.

As I left the cafe, I was towing my bag with one hand and carrying a drink in the other. No big deal for me, I'm used to opening doors with both hands full. As I reached the door, it opened, in walked a man. A man with hair almost completely grey, a lined face. Probably 60+. He glanced sideways and I know he saw me with my hands full.

You know what he did, Chris? He shoved his nose straight back in his phone and let the door swing shut behind him before I could get a foot in to stop it.

Respect goes both ways. The older generation wants to know why the younger don't respect them? Because they don't respect us.

hanyuufan5 said:

Personally, I think public figures should use very minimal profanity in their public lives. Call me old fashioned, but I think some degree of professionalism and decorum should be displayed by them anywhere that can be viewed by the rest of the world.

That being said, I completely disagree that profanity is somehow correlated to one's education level. I think it's more of a cultural and personality thing. My parents have advanced degrees and swear like sailors. (Somehow I turned out never saying anything worse than "crap" and having to spell out the word "sex". Must be a recessive gene.) I had a few pottymouthed professors as well.



That actually might have backfired and somewhat endeared him to quite a few Russians.

As for Eteri, notice she only warned Zhenya about the cameras, she didn't say anything about the swearing itself!

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I am not sure there is a direct correlation to the use of profanity and education level, although I have heard rumors that JFK and his wife didnt like LBJ and his wife, perhaps due to some kind of class/society differences...but that was then and this is now. Society has changed and we are in a cold civil war in the US. The F word and C word has just become another word used on bumper stickers and in common language by all sides.

Eteri, say what you will, is no fool. There have been other figure skaters from many countries who have said things in public that I bet they wished they hadnt said. Its still a pretty conservative sport/preforming art. You wont hurt yourself by being polite, positive and proffesional. You may hurt yourself by being the opposite. Note the differenece between that and football. If you are very very good THERE you can say and do what you will and end up on your feet, AKA Michael Vick and others.
Does Putin swear?

I have never understood having strong feelings about language either way. Language only has the power you grant it. For example, if someone I know who never curses curses about something then I know she is serious. At the same time, I have friends who curse a lot and it's just a part of their normal speech patterns.

Who decided a word was a 'curse word' and why do I have to give that word power just because society says it's bad. Language is a fluid and living thing. I don't really care if someone curses a lot or not at all.

I did NOT make this up!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ic-report-insults-hurt-feelings-arent-crimes/

karne said:

Let me tell you a story that happened only a few hours ago.

I finished work early. I had been intending to go to the rink, but I had a headache, and thought better of it. I stopped at a cafe in the bus interchange to get some dinner before I went home. Towing my skate bag - a carry-on size wheelie suitcase - all the while.

As I left the cafe, I was towing my bag with one hand and carrying a drink in the other. No big deal for me, I'm used to opening doors with both hands full. As I reached the door, it opened, in walked a man. A man with hair almost completely grey, a lined face. Probably 60+. He glanced sideways and I know he saw me with my hands full.

You know what he did, Chris? He shoved his nose straight back in his phone and let the door swing shut behind him before I could get a foot in to stop it.

Respect goes both ways. The older generation wants to know why the younger don't respect them? Because they don't respect us.

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I believe you but in my circles and in my country that would have been very rare. I have friends I cant even get to BUY a phone, much less walk around carrying it. But I do know lots of people, even some near my age, who are addicted to their phones. This is of course a different issue than simple manners, which that person didnt seem to have. I hold doors for everyone. And yes, manners and respect and what I call the Boy Scout Oath culture are fast disappearing here but what is puzzeling to me is WHY older people, say 60 year olds who still SHOULD have been taught manners have lost them so fast. Anyone under 40 I cant speak for, but we old people were taught manners. When we left a motel early in the morning, dad taught us to snick the car doors onto the first notch, then he would back out the car away from the rooms and we would all slam our doors. Now people have their car horns connected to their door locks.....I am a stranger in my own country.

CoyoteChris said:

I am not sure there is a direct correlation to the use of profanity and education level, although I have heard rumors that JFK and his wife didnt like LBJ and his wife, perhaps due to some kind of class/society differences...but that was then and this is now. Society has changed and we are in a cold civil war in the US. The F word and C word has just become another word used on bumper stickers and in common language by all sides.

Eteri, say what you will, is no fool. There have been other figure skaters from many countries who have said things in public that I bet they wished they hadnt said. Its still a pretty conservative sport/preforming art. You wont hurt yourself by being polite, positive and proffesional. You may hurt yourself by being the opposite. Note the differenece between that and football. If you are very very good THERE you can say and do what you will and end up on your feet, AKA Michael Vick and others.
Does Putin swear?

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I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Where most of my family is from, the F and C words have always been common language. I'm no fan of cursing, but other people's bumper stickers are none of my business unless they break the law (threats, hate speech, etc.). Personally, I've never seen either of those words on any around here.

If I gave the impression that I think Eteri is foolish, that was certainly not my intention. I was just amused because I know that a whole lot of Russians are huge pottymouths. I can easily picture Eteri swearing a blue streak behind closed doors. However, I agree that skaters should be polite, positive, and professional. I think everyone should in their public life/occupation.

Putin does swear on occasion. He also jokingly half-threatened to castrate a reporter whom he viewed as being soft on terrorism.

CoyoteChris said:

I believe you but in my circles and in my country that would have been very rare. I have friends I cant even get to BUY a phone, much less walk around carrying it. But I do know lots of people, even some near my age, who are addicted to their phones. This is of course a different issue than simple manners, which that person didnt seem to have. I hold doors for everyone. And yes, manners and respect and what I call the Boy Scout Oath culture are fast disappearing here but what is puzzeling to me is WHY older people, say 60 year olds who still SHOULD have been taught manners have lost them so fast. Anyone under 40 I cant speak for, but we old people were taught manners. When we left a motel early in the morning, dad taught us to snick the car doors onto the first notch, then he would back out the car away from the rooms and we would all slam our doors. Now people have their car horns connected to their door locks.....I am a stranger in my own country.

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You genuinely believe that people should have manners. There are still people like that and always will be. I'm one of them.

The ones who have lost them probably only ever seemed to have them because that was the societal norm at that time. It wasn't sincere, and now that they can get away with being their true, rude selves, they are.

If the pendulum ever swings back the other way toward politeness, probably a lot of younger people who would love to be polite but are worried about being considered "uncool" or whatever will start doing so, along with the standard conformists who will do whatever "everyone else" is doing. Then the genuinely rude people will be wondering why everyone has become such dandies.

TL;DR: Every generation is mostly conformists and a few sincere people. Norms change, sheeple don't, and the rest of us are left feeling like we woke up in an alternate universe. Such is flawed human nature.

hanyuufan5 said:

You genuinely believe that people should have manners. There are still people like that and always will be. I'm one of them.

The ones who have lost them probably only ever seemed to have them because that was the societal norm at that time. It wasn't sincere, and now that they can get away with being their true, rude selves, they are.

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As a diehard fan of Miss Manners, I wouldn't go that far... most people when all is said and done do want to get along with other folk, and certainly pretty much everyone disapproves of bad manners when on the receiving end. It's just that in the rush and botheration of life, we forget, we get tunnel vision, we sometimes act as we would complain loud and long if another acted that way to us And being grumpily sure that things like manners were so much better in The Good Old Days (which, without the rosy nostalgic glow, weren't that damn good for a lot more people than today, but that's another topic) is sadly an inescapable part of getting older, I think (I catch myself doing it, sad to say)

Back to swearing... I remember as a very young school leaver earnestly hunting up for my first job, I somehow accidentally applied for a job at a cemetery, and in the interview the male panel member said something like "the other employees are all men dealing with dead bodies and sometimes - with the work they do - they do use a lot of language, would that shock you?" Of course I said not all all, I'm a mature and experienced adult etc etc (hah!) but I did wonder as I left the interview just what the said bodies could do that made people let fly with language.... and did I really want to know?

There has always been plenty of earthy language going round, just less when delicate ears and those of and tender years could hear it. Now of course, the delicate and the tender don't see why they can't use it too.

TallyT said:

... "the other employees are all men ... and they do use a lot of language ...

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When I was in college the first campus residence hall for women was just two years old, and the buzz was all about what the rules should be about boys visiting the girls and vice versa. The dean of men was dead set against all such goings-on. In particular he felt that the boys' dormitories should be man caves with no women allowed, so that the boys could cuss to their heart's content without the civilizing effect of having ladies present.

(The Dean's name was Longley. We had a big campaign to get rid of him, featuring the slogan "Shortly no Longley.")

I remember many many years ago being on the ice with with a 10-year-old juvenile girl who would squeak "s***!" in her tiny little voice when she fell on her double lutz. She grew up to win championships.

Here's something I happened to come across about a decade ago: 1898 obscene language baseball document (click on the image to read the actual document if you dare)
No word on whether they did auction it off or for how much

Oh, and going further back to the 1870s, there were reasons telephone operators were generally female

I Googled profanity and skaters and found that many rinks have explicit rules about it. For instance, the Sherwood rink in Portland, Oregon, says

Skaters, coaches, and parents are to refrain from unsportsmanlike conduct, profanity, yelling, harassment, intimidation, and bullying at all times. This encompasses the ice, the lobby, and the parking lot areas. Failure to abide by this may result in being asked to leave the arena...

More advanced skaters are expected to act as exemplary role models for younger skaters, both on and off the ice.

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They also have a rule that says if you fall down, you must get up immediately "if you are able to do so."