2003 Televised Skate Canada Thoughts... (;^)

[Ptichka]

I must be just about the only person on this board who like T&M. I know they are not expressive in the traditional way, the way G&G were, but I do beleive they have a very unique artistry all their own. It used to be the same with Elvis -- the general consensus was that he was just a technician, but I really felt that he brought a unique artistry to ice.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I must be just about the only person on this board who like T&M. I know they are not expressive in the traditional way, the way G&G were, but I do beleive they have a very unique artistry all their own. It used to be the same with Elvis -- the general consensus was that he was just a technician, but I really felt that he brought a unique artistry to ice.

I agree with you about Totmianina/Marinin (excepting WSS) and Stojko.

 

[anya_angie]

Ptichka,
No, you're not the only one who likes them, I like them too. I thought they were very elegant in the sp.

 

[nysk8r]

Thank You Pairs fan!!!!!!!! Sometimes I can't catch everything Dick Button is saying.

 

[pairsfan]

You're welcome, nysk8r.

 

[euterpe]

Having seen the Skate Canada FS tonight, here is my take:

Van Der Perren was wonderful, but he needs at least a 3A to be really competitive.

Sandhu was pitiable. The talent is there, but the will is not.

Buttle's skating between jumps is masterful. The problem is the jumps, which are rarely securely landed.

Honda was typical Honda. Tried hard, but those quads just eluded him. He always makes me nervous when he skates.

Plushenko started off strong, but was slow and labored towards the end of his skate. I think it must have been the fact he was performing his new program for the first time, and that he was ill (besides the knee problem). He was still head and shoulders above the other men.

Sasha's FS was full of fluffs and fumbles, and for once Dick didn't gush over her technical expertise, because it was definitely absent. On top of that, the last half of her program was entirely without emotional content. She seemed to be walking through it while planning her next costume design.

Yukina Ota is a lovely skater, but she was clearly nervous, and it affected her performance.

Julia Sebestyen is a strong skater, but there is something lacking in her skating. It is too mechanical and detached.

Shizuka Arakawa started off so strongly, but she, too, kind of lost it along the way. I still think she could challenge Sasha in the future.

I don't know why they showed Elena Sokolova. It would have been a mercy gesture to NOT show her shoddy performance. The girl needs about 3 months' practice and a nuritionally-balanced low-calorie diet.

 

[Nadine]

PART II:


MEN (LP)

Van Der Perren - whoa, first time having had the pleasure of seeing this young gentleman skate........two thumbs way up........my favorite performance of the men's (no lie). Especially enjoyed the beautifully executed 3S/3T/3R - my mouth just hung open - and not only that, but his entire program was truly a joy to watch (had both the jumps, except 3A, & the presentation; the whole package). Looking forward to seeing more of him in the future.

Emanuel Sandhu - such a pretty looking young man.........even more emphasized with the bright pink checkered corset.........too bad about the jumps.

Takeshi Honda - in comparison to his SP, this LP was quite a disappointment for me........and I'm not just talking about the jumps......rather the program itself seemed monotonous, rote, robotic. JMHO.

Evgeni Plushenko - give him a thumbs up for the effort & for competing while injured........though I think he should scale back & save his body for the competitions that matter (aka Nationals, Euros, Worlds, Olympics)........but still, have to be honest & say that this program does nothing for me. Too bad, was really looking forward to it. ^(

Jeffery Buttle - good effort & nice program - congrats for pulling up to second place.

WOMEN (LP)

Sasha Cohen - nice program & beautiful presentation.......too bad about the little mistakes here & there........but no matter, none of the others has what it takes to challenge her nor have any of them stepped up to the bat (except Jennifer Kirk). Onward & upward.

Yukina Ota - am simply in love with her graceful & delicate arms/hands........haven't seen ones like that since Oksana Baiul (no lie).........reminds me of what Peter Carruthers said once of Oksana "and the incredible arms she has on the ice - Amazing to watch - so graceful". That said, for some reason her upper & lower body do not seem to quite mesh IMHO.......not just the jumps.......but the legs in particular (hard to describe). Still, I enjoyed her LP b/c she seemed to float over the ice. ***Note: btw love the costume; reminds me exactly of Oksana's "Jules Massenet" costume from 1996.***

Julia Sebestyen - YES, absolutely am in love w/her Michael Jordan size jumps! Two thumbs way up! Can honestly never get enough of watching them over & over again (no lie). In fact, I first took note of them at the 2002 Olympics and the last time was at 2003 Euros. Not only that, but I find her skating quite similar to Irina Slutskaya, whom I enjoy also. Definitely am looking forward to seeing more of her in future, especially this particular program - really liked it. ^)

Shizuka Arakawa - another enjoyable program.......keeps getting better & better........especially love the drama of it all. And two thumbs up to that beautifully executed 3Z/3T! Can't wait to see it skated to its potential. ^)

Peace & Love, Nadine

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Regarding Sasha's LP, did anyone look up the scoring breakdwon to see if she got credit for the 3x2 she didn't do?

Joe

 

[IDLERACER]

My only complaint about the broadcast is that instead of that hokey tribute to Alexei Yagudin, I would've much rather seen Jennifer Robinson's performance. Incidentally, I taped the second hour (the women's programs) and turned the VCR off every time a commercial came on. If anyone is interested, the actual program was only 40 minutes long, with 20 minutes of advertising. Michael Eisner is a gluttonous miser.

 

[Mathman]

Joe, yes, Sasha got credit for a 3Lz (her first element), with a base score of 6.1 and a GOE of -1.00.

The she got credit for a 3Lz-Combo. This had a base score of 6.1, lowered by a GOE of -2.20.

Mathman

 

[Mathman]

My thoughts.

1. Arakawa kicked booty! (I won't say whose, LOL.) She has such athletic strength in her legs and buttocks, it made her jumps seem effortless. Dick and Peggy criticized her spins, but hmph on Dick and Peggy. Peggy didn't even understand how the CoP worked, about base value and GOE.

2. It was such fun watching Sasha make cookies! But even more fun than that -- just before the skating they showed the World Chess Championship, Man against Machine. Gary Kasparov, the Michelle Kwan of chess, made a move of jaw-dropping brilliance (R-b1) which totally crushed Fritz the computer, leveling the match at one and a half points apiece.

3. The ISU needs a new promo video. They are still using the one they made in 2000, when all of the World Champions were Russian. Besides Michelle (Ariadne) the promo shows Yagudin, Butyrskaya, Bereshnaya and Sikharulidze (and I think its Anassina and Peiserat (?) for dance -- honorary Russians, as we found out... oh, never mind.)

4. Kevin van der Perren was the class of the men's event, even without a quad or a triple Axel. Sandhu and Honda were an embarassment. Plushenko was ho hum. I hope he is not making a career-ending mistake by competing in ten or so events this year and putting off his surgery. Dick Button supported Plushenko's decision, saying, "Oh, to be 20 again."

4. Julia Sebestyen had a lot of energy, which the crowd liked, and I think that made the difference in placing her in third over pretty-as-a-picture Yukina Ota. Sasha, despite the conditioning that she has been working on, for the first time this season seemed little and frail. Not so, Elena Sokolova. Her music was so dreary, it didn't help her at all.

5. One cool thing about the CoP was mentioned by Terry Gannon. Now we can compare a skater's performance from one event to another. When we have arguments about, which was better, Oksana Baiul's Swan Lake or Sarah Hughes' Salt lake City LP, we will in the future have something to go on.

Even in a dull contest where one skater is way out in front of everyone else, we can generate some excitement by saying, this skater has packed her technical content to the brim, trying to beat the all-time point score of 325.6 points, set by Michelle Kwan in Torino, all those years ago!

Mathman

 

[Piel]

Even in a dull contest where one skater is way out in front of everyone else, we can generate some exitement by saying, this skater has packed her technical content to the brim, trying to beat the all-time point score of 325.6 points, set by Michelle Kwan in Torino, all those years ago!

Mathman

ROFL

Sasha will do good in TV IMO. She seemed more relaxed in the kitchen than on the ice. I enjoyed her fluff piece.

If I heard correctly Dick/Peggy/Terry were talking about how Sasha's LP was not up to the one at SA but point wise she did about the same? Huh???

I LOVE Yukina she is exquisite! Kind of makes me think of AP in some ways. The costume looked so delicate, just perfection. Shizuka was good too. For some reason her costume at first reminded me of a spider theme of some kind but still quite beautiful.


Piel

 

[shine]

I think what made Julia place in 3rd was the Yukina's very weak jumps in this particular skate. Her TCS (presentation) score was higher than Julia.

 

[giseledepkat]

Van Der Perren - whoa, first time having had the pleasure of seeing this young gentleman skate........two thumbs way up........my favorite performance of the men's (no lie). Especially enjoyed the beautifully executed 3S/3T/3R - my mouth just hung open - and not only that, but his entire program was truly a joy to watch (had both the jumps, except 3A, & the presentation; the whole package). Looking forward to seeing more of him in the future.

OMG, I can't believe I forgot to record this (beating self over head...) I especially wanted to see Van Der Perren skate, and was praying that ABC would show him!

Sigh. Well, as a bitter consolation prize, I guess there's no better time to find the answer to something that's puzzled me for a while now: why is a loop jump represented by the letter R? (I mean besides L getting it confused with a lutz, lol)

Thanks!

--Pennie

 

[dewet]

OMG, I can't believe I forgot to record this (beating self over head...) I especially wanted to see Van Der Perren skate, and was praying that ABC would show him!

Sigh. Well, as a bitter consolation prize, I guess there's no better time to find the answer to something that's puzzled me for a while now: why is a loop jump represented by the letter R? (I mean besides L getting it confused with a lutz, lol)

Thanks!

--Pennie

The loop was invented by someone with Rittberger as a last name whose first name I can't remember(John?). It's refered as a R for Rittberger.

 

[giseledepkat]

Ah, the internet -- the answer to all your questions in 14 minutes flat!

Thanks, Irina -- I mean thanks, dewet!

 

[dlkksk8fan]

Loop Jump

dewet- are you thinking of the name Werner Rittberger? He was a German World silver medalist in 1910, 1911 & 1912.

According to my references it is not known who originated the jump that was being done as early as the 1880's.

 

[Ptichka]

My thoughts:

1. When Sasha did her attempted 3L combination, Dick rightfully said that she will not get credit for it, since it's her 2nd 3L in the program, and you are only allowed to do the 2nd one in combination; the second jump of the combo was absent, as she really messed up on the first. However, when I looked at the detailed scores, I saw that it was counted as 3L+combo (base value 6.1), with judges mainly giving it -2's and -3's. I wonder, was it entered as a combo because it was Sasha? For a less famous skater, would they just count it as a 2nd 3L and NOT give her any credit?

2. I thought Dick was unreasonable harsh on Elena. He was talking about how she is not a very good skater, as good skaters can still look gracefull on the ice even when they are injured and can't really jump. I felt it was really kicking Elena when she was down.

3. I second MM's concern over Plushy's career. I hope his knee is not going to deteriorate due to his skating through the injury...

 

[lavender]

I think Buttle was the class of the field.

 

[skatingfan5]

Super Sasha's phantom combo!

1. When Sasha did her attempted 3L combination, Dick rightfully said that she will not get credit for it, since it's her 2nd 3L in the program, and you are only allowed to do the 2nd one in combination; the second jump of the combo was absent, as she really messed up on the first. However, when I looked at the detailed scores, I saw that it was counted as 3L+combo (base value 6.1), with judges mainly giving it -2's and -3's. I wonder, was it entered as a combo because it was Sasha? For a less famous skater, would they just count it as a 2nd 3L and NOT give her any credit?

After watching the Skate Canada broadcast yesterday, I too was scratching my head about Sasha's "3lutz combo" near the end of her program. Apparently the caller, Germany's Karin Hendschke, saw something completely invisible to me (and Uncle Dick -- and even Sasha, who in her post-skate interview said something like "not having a combo cost me a lot"). Even the Technical Supervisor, who was none other than Alexander Lakernik, the chair of the ISU's technical committee, saw this phantom combo. Not only did Sasha get credit for a repeated jump that shouldn't have been allowed by the rules, she also got a bonus of 10% for it because it was after the 2 minute mark. Here's Sasha wondering how to replicate her fabulous phantom combo. Oh, the wonderful accuracy of the new Code of Points. If sure puts a lot in the hands of one person -- but this is MUCH better than letting 9 judges determine whether a violation has occured, isn't it. I'm glad that the final results weren't close -- like the less than 0.5 difference between bronze and 4th place for the Men at Lalique this week -- or for the pairs finals a few weeks ago.