2012 NHK Ladies Free Skate

[Mirunna]

The only time Mao had "ratified lutz" was when ISU didn't really care about wrong edges until 2006-2007 season in which Mao had way more serious flutzes. When they finally did, she had no longer "ratified lutzes." You should really look at the facts before you claim something that isn't true.

That is not true. She hada ratified 3Lz with good edge at 2008 NHK trophy and at 2008 Grand prix final, both in the short program. That was in 2008-2009 season when she worked in the summer with Tarasova. Next season she completely abandoned the jump and focused on the 3A and by the 2010-2011 season she went back to her old habits. She does try to correct the jump and some reports claim the jump does look better in practice but in the competition it's not working. So I agree with the posters who say she currently does not have the jump. You should also check your facts before contradicting someone IMO

 

[let`s talk]

Mao is speaking English (rare!) to CBC. So many nasty things were posted about Mao on this "brilliant" thread that I decided to post smth nice to make this place less stinky: www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0jS3w6uqwQ

 

[Mrs. P]

See, I didn't mean to hate on anyone and I didn't think I did - but I'm sorry if it appeared that way. And I'm by no means denying Mao has huge trouble with the 3L. What got me upset is the claim of Mao making excuses or that she wouldn't even try for the real Lutz edge. When you want to put it that Mao doesn't have a Lutz, that's fine - but then nearly the majority of ladies today doesn't. Ashley, Adelina, Julia - and here, per protocol, even Akiko.
The first statement of Nadia01 just seemed to single out Mao with this, and that's not right. If you really want to go trough with this, Akiko seemd to have had 2 flutzes in the FS - what does that make of her 7 triple FS? 5 triple FS? It's still a 7-triple FS for me. Maybe I'm just not enough into the technical expect, true, but I'm not caring as much about those edges. I'd rather have the girls flutzing and getting some -GOE than trying hard to fix it afterwards resulting in popped jumps or UR's. Just because the system now starts to penalize it while it didn't do so before. If you think Mao doesn't have a Lutz I won't object again, but I don't think it should be used to talk her into being a bad jumper. That's all.

(Sorry Toni, last post I'm making about this. Just wanted to have that said and explained, no bickering anymore!)

I think tulosai and I were not responding to you but another poster who basically argued that Mao has had a ratified lutz in the last few seasons. I checked that fact out by looking up three seasons worth of protocol sheets- it was not true. So that's that.

Back to the topic at hand, as I said in my criticisms of this competition, that poor judging or the skate itself did not change my view or respect for Mao. She is a skater I admire greatly and I think she did not believe she deserved to win. I hope that will motivate her to be even better this season.

Mao is speaking English (rare!) to CBC. So many nasty things were posted about Mao on this "brilliant" thread that I decided to post smth nice to make this place less stinky: www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0jS3w6uqwQ

And there you have it -- Mao knows she did not have a good performance. She did not make any excuses, just noted it for what it was.

 

[mary01]

That is not true. She hada ratified 3Lz with good edge at 2008 NHK trophy and at 2008 Grand prix final, both in the short program. That was in 2008-2009 season when she worked in the summer with Tarasova. Next season she completely abandoned the jump and focused on the 3A and by the 2010-2011 season she went back to her old habits. She does try to correct the jump and some reports claim the jump does look better in practice but in the competition it's not working. So I agree with the posters who say she currently does not have the jump. You should also check your facts before contradicting someone IMO

thank you, finally a word of truth!

 

[Mrs. P]

thank you, finally a word of truth!

But you seem not willing to acknowledge the fact that I took the time to note that since she started reworking her technique, that she hasn't had a single lutz ratified on the correct edge.

Yes Mirunna you are correct: She did have the 3Z ratified at those 2008 competitions. It's worth noting that she did not attempt it in the FS at either competition. She also had it ratified in 2007 at Skate America (SP+FS)

She did have an (e) at Worlds 2008 SP + FS, 4CC SP + FS, 2007-2008 GPF final, both her GP events during the 2007-2008 season

Still, two ratified 3Z out of a bunch of them since the 2007-2008 season isn't exactly a great track record. And it doesn't change the fact she still is getting edge calls NOW.

And no it doesn't change the fact other skaters have a flutz. Akiko has a flutz at times as well. But historically she's been called on it less than Mao has. And she got both her lutzes (albeit she singled one of them) ratified with the correct edge at the 2012 World Championships and at the 2011 GPF. She does seem to making quite progress on it, that she actually makes errors, I think, in trying to get the correct edge.

 

[tulosai]

In addition, Mary01, your original claim was that if we go back and look we'll see she had 'several' lutzes ratified. So far, among this whole board, we can only find 2 since edge calls began.

 

[Mrs. P]

In addition, Mary01, your original claim was that if we go back and look we'll see she had 'several' lutzes ratified. So far, among this whole board, we can only find 2 since edge calls began.

To be fair, she did not get any edge calls in the 2006-2007 season, but yes that was when they were not as strict. Since judges became strict in the 2007-2008 season, she has only had 2 ratified lutz jumps. But I think that's what you meant right?

 

[tulosai]

To be fair, she did not get any edge calls in the 2006-2007 season, but yes that was when they were not as strict. Since judges became strict in the 2007-2008 season, she has only had 2 ratified lutz jumps. But I think that's what you meant right?

It was! Thanks for correcting me/making my meaning more clear

 

[l'etoile]

thank you, finally a word of truth!

Truth, indeed.

 

[mskater93]

To be fair, she did not get any edge calls in the 2006-2007 season, but yes that was when they were not as strict. Since judges became strict in the 2007-2008 season, she has only had 2 ratified lutz jumps. But I think that's what you meant right?

I seem to recall when she was working with Rafa, he got upset with the ISU for changing the focus (more point of emphasis on edge calls) mid-quadrenium saying that it wasn't fair to skaters that you start picking on this issue with only 2 years left before an Olympics and that it was unfair to the skaters and coaches. He knew, even back in 07/08 that her Lz entry was iffy....

 

[shine]

well maybe you should look at the facts before you claim something that isn't true, try looking at all the times where Mao attempted the lutz and you will see she has got several lutzes ratified.

***

Are we seriously going to argue that Mao doesn't flutz? REALLY? Her flutz is as true as any flutz has ever been.

I truly don't believe as serious as her flutz is, she could be doing real lutzes sometimes, and flutzes some other times. Even for a skater with less of a flutz that's not really possible. Your muscles either KNOW how to do the counter rotation or they don't.

 

[mary01]

Are we seriously going to argue that Mao doesn't flutz? REALLY? Her flutz is as true as any flutz has ever been.

I truly don't believe as serious as her flutz is, she could be doing real lutzes sometimes, and flutzes some other times. Even for a skater with less of a flutz that's not really possible. Your muscles either KNOW how to do the counter rotation or they don't.

Mao did get several lutzes ratified when the rules became stricter, and they didn't suddenly happen out of nowhere, Mao worked very hard together with tat to correct it in 2008 and indeed succeeded and got them ratified under the new stricter rules, but the following season she once again chose to change her jump layout, where she chose to focus on the 3A, and therefor didn't attempt it for a whole season, and during that time she went back to her old habits, so now she is once again trying to change that together with Sato!

 

[l'etoile]

So Tatiana is a genius jump coach who made Mao's flutzes into real lutzes miraculously. *judges' turning blind eyes have no account in that "ratified" lutzes, yes?*

Fixing edge problems doesn't normally take more than two seasons, a whole season, at average i.e., Joannie Rochette, Miki Ando, Patrick Chan, and many others did it in much less than two seasons. This is third season since Mao declared her rebuilding technique plan but still no real progress on flutz. This is really alarming.

I absolutely applauded her for removing that mule-kick in flip but it kinda reduced power and height Mao had on flip which I admired. However, when you spend whole three seasons and still show some serious lapses, you get to really wonder if all those works are worth that much.

 

[Mathman]

Here is my advice for Mao's ideal jump layout which will guarantee her the Olympic gold medal.

The key is, if you can't do a triple Lutz, do a double. Double Lutz with +1 GOE = 2.4 points. 3Lz<(e) = 2.8 points, so that's pretty much a wash. Plus, if you do a double you can not only control your take-off edge better, but also the landing edge so you could do a 2Lz+3T or 2Lz+2T+2Lo for big points.

So here is the perfect program for Mao.

1. 3F+2Lo
2. 3Lo
3. 3S
4. 3F*
5. 3Lo+2Lo+2T*
6. 2Lz+3T*
7. 2A*

Easy does it. Base value = 41.7. Add in 20 points for non-jump elements and 10 points for GOEs, you've got TES = 72.

Now work your Mao magic and get nines across the board for PCS = 72.

Pick up another 72 in the short program.

Total score for the competition, 216 points.

Not bad for a program with no triple Axel, no triple Lutz, and no triple-triple combination!

 

[Mrs. P]

Mao did get several lutzes ratified when the rules became stricter, and they didn't suddenly happen out of nowhere, Mao worked very hard together with tat to correct it in 2008 and indeed succeeded and got them ratified under the new stricter rules, but the following season she once again chose to change her jump layout, where she chose to focus on the 3A, and therefor didn't attempt it for a whole season, and during that time she went back to her old habits, so now she is once again trying to change that together with Sato!

Sorry, I don't call two successful ratifications in one season a success...

 

[Shiloh]

If she replaces 2Lz+3T with 2A+3T, the score will be even better. She could beat Mike Ando, Ashly Wagner and Carolina Kosterner

 

[Tonichelle]

welcome to GS, Shiloh! Post often, post long!