2013 Skate America Ladies Free Program

[szidon]

I found an interesting interview with Evgeni Rukavitsin, Ksenia Makarova's coach, talking about the Skate America's results.

(url: Евгений Рукавицын: с нашим вечным акцентом на прыжках надо боротьсяhttp://rsport.ru/interview/20131022/695765302.html)

As far as I understand it by the help of the google translator, Rukavitsin and Mishin seemed to think Asada's every jump was underrotated in this SA but it wasn't reflected in the protocol.
It's interesting since it was said that one of the German Eurosports commentators told the same opinions during this SA.

If the tendency of Asada's underrotation is true, what should she do in this Olympic season?

 

[Mathman]

I didn't realize that Mao is the first to have won all the Grand Prix tournaments. Congratulations to her!

Shen and Zhao did it in pairs. Like Mao, Skate America was the last one. Plushenko did it in mens, if you count the German event before it was replaced by Cup of China.

 

[enzet]

If the tendency of Asada's underrotation is true, what should she do in this Olympic season?

Keep winning.

 

[w_darling]

More and more, I'm beginning to wonder whether Mishin is really right for Liza... Commenting on Mao at this point is irrelevant and just comes off as unnecessarily bitter and, perhaps more frustratingly, not very constructive. It's not as if Liza lost to Mao because of some unfairly generous calls; she lost and moreover landed off the podium because, as usual, she messed up her SP. I'd rather Mishin address how he plans to help Liza overcome her SP anxieties...

 

[szidon]

More and more, I'm beginning to wonder whether Mishin is really right for Liza... Commenting on Mao at this point is irrelevant and just comes off as unnecessarily bitter and, perhaps more frustratingly, not very constructive. It's not as if Liza lost to Mao because of some unfairly generous calls; she lost and moreover landed off the podium because, as usual, she messed up her SP. I'd rather Mishin address how he plans to help Liza overcome her SP anxieties...

The problem is that Mishin is not the only person who thinks like that. Evgeni Rukavitsin, Eteri Tutberidze(Lipniskaya's coach) and a German Eurosports comentator also told the same thing.

IMO, Asada needs more focus on her jumping technique given the situation her jumps are being scrutinized. I think she's improved lots of aspects of her skills since the Vancouver Olympics, but there's still room for improvement to Asada.

 

[CarneAsada]

If the tendency of Asada's underrotation is true, what should she do in this Olympic season?

If it's true, then the solution is to rotate, obviously. Last season she was underrotating everything at the start before cleaning it up near the middle/end of the season.

 

[chloepoco]

I found an interesting interview with Evgeni Rukavitsin, Ksenia Makarova's coach, talking about the Skate America's results.

(url: Евгений Рукавицын: с нашим вечным акцентом на прыжках надо боротьсяhttp://rsport.ru/interview/20131022/695765302.html)

As far as I understand it by the help of the google translator, Rukavitsin and Mishin seemed to think Asada's every jump was underrotated in this SA but it wasn't reflected in the protocol.
It's interesting since it was said that one of the German Eurosports commentators told the same opinions during this SA.

If the tendency of Asada's underrotation is true, what should she do in this Olympic season?

Obviously, the judges thought otherwise....

 

[Li'Kitsu]

The problem is that Mishin is not the only person who thinks like that. Evgeni Rukavitsin, Eteri Tutberidze(Lipniskaya's coach) and a German Eurosports comentator also told the same thing.

I didn't even know german Eurosport showed anything frm SA. Not that I would have bothered, since I actually prefer clunky online streams with commentators I don't understand over TV screen listening to commentators who annoy the **** out of me. And our german commentators are pretty awful to me - they come of pretty mean sometimes, aren't able to regocnize a good program for their life's worth (I think they liked Adelinas FS last year more than Carolinas, if I remember correctly) and most of all aren't even knowing what they're talking about sometimes (the worst was back in 2012, at the European CH, when Kiira repeated 3 triple jumps and had one discounted due to the zayak rule - and the commentators didn't know about that rule. They were just like "oh, why is her score so low? I don't understand that, I don't get ah, ahhhh?!"). So I couldn't care less about what one of those commentators said.

For the russian: meh. Maybe some of Maos other jumps were questionable, but all of them URed? The 3Lo, the first 3F? Nope, I think that's nonsense. And every jump would actually mean in the SP too? Yeah, sorry, but it does sound like soure grapes from Mishin.

 

[CarneAsada]

For the russian: meh. Maybe some of Maos other jumps were questionable, but all of them URed? The 3Lo, the first 3F? Nope, I think that's nonsense. And every jump would actually mean in the SP too? Yeah, sorry, but it does sound like soure grapes from Mishin.

It would be a lot easier to take complaints from the Russian camp seriously if they didn't complain about everything. After awhile, one just becomes inured to complaints from Russians and tunes them out.

 

[MaiKatze]

The problem is that Mishin is not the only person who thinks like that. Evgeni Rukavitsin, Eteri Tutberidze(Lipniskaya's coach) and a German Eurosports comentator also told the same thing.

Hendryk Schamberger is a Yuna fanboy (nothing wrong with this) and Mao basher (a lot is wrong with this, though). He called her fake and artificial before and ALWAYS critizes her - no matter what she does. Sigi Heinrich (Carolina Kostner fanboy) was actually praising Mao and Schamberger didn't want to agree. The german eurosport team are totally biased and have their favourites.

 

[szidon]

Hendryk Schamberger is a Yuna fanboy (nothing wrong with this) and Mao basher (a lot is wrong with this, though). He called her fake and artificial before and ALWAYS critizes her - no matter what she does. Sigi Heinrich (Carolina Kostner fanboy) was actually praising Mao and Schamberger didn't want to agree. The german eurosport team are totally biased and have their favourites.

Everybody has their favorites and nothing's wrong with that as you wrote.

But underrotation is not about tastes or preferences.

 

[hurrah]

Everybody has their favorites and nothing's wrong with that as you wrote.

But underrotation is not about tastes or preferences.

Well, since these german commentators appear not to even know the zayak rule, I guess they wouldn't know too much about judging what an under-rotation is.

Mishin really ought to start addressing his own coaching abilities, as teaching jump technique is only one aspect of what makes for a great coach. Dissing Mao isn't going to help Liza stop messing up her SP or her low PCS scores.

 

[HR4]

I have not read Mishin's complains anywhere, but Rukavitsin's interview is very adecvate

I have not read Mishin's complains anywhere, but Rukavitsin's interview is very advocate form my point of view. He DID NOT say that all the jumps were ur, but some were, and it was not reflected in protocols. Actually he even said that Ashley had more underrotations than Mao.

 

[yuki]

Everybody has their favorites and nothing's wrong with that as you wrote.

But underrotation is not about tastes or preferences.

The technical panel for the ladies FS included Shin Amano, who is infamous for being very strict on underrotations (and who has been especially harsh on Mao in the past). If Mao's alleged underrotations were so obvious that all these commentators were apparently able to see them in real time, what prevented the technical panel from calling them?

Bias does play a big part in all of this. It's very easy to criticize someone who is prone to underrotating. Just yell "underrotated!" every time the skater does a jump and you will find people eager to rally behind you and look for things that might or might not be there. Bias also plays a part in whose opinions you choose to believe: the technical panel or commentators who dislike the skater and coaches of her rivals.

 

[minze]

The problem is that Mishin is not the only person who thinks like that. Evgeni Rukavitsin, Eteri Tutberidze(Lipniskaya's coach) and a German Eurosports comentator also told the same thing.

IMO, Asada needs more focus on her jumping technique given the situation her jumps are being scrutinized. I think she's improved lots of aspects of her skills since the Vancouver Olympics, but there's still room for improvement to Asada.

And it seems you have made ut your mission to convience us Mao's jumps were underotated?

 

[szidon]

I have not read Mishin's complains anywhere, but Rukavitsin's interview is very advocate form my point of view. He DID NOT say that all the jumps were ur, but some were, and it was not reflected in protocols. Actually he even said that Ashley had more underrotations than Mao.

If you can translate Russian to English, please let us know the details of the interview. (url: http://rsport.ru/interview/20131022/695765302.html)

 

[Kelly]

The problem is that Mishin is not the only person who thinks like that. Evgeni Rukavitsin, Eteri Tutberidze(Lipniskaya's coach) and a German Eurosports comentator also told the same thing.

And that is how a bias is formed because more than three people told the same thing.

 

[szidon]

And that is how a bias is formed because more than three people told the same thing.

Hope this is just a bias.

 

[miki88]

Everybody has their favorites and nothing's wrong with that as you wrote.

But underrotation is not about tastes or preferences.

Um.. anything could become a form of bias when someone chooses to amplify the flaws and ignore the strengths of a skater they don't particularly like.

I really did find it unwise of Julia's coach to criticize Mao's issues in an interview because it's not like Julia has pristine jump technique either.

 

[sapphiresky]

I hate it that the CoP makes skaters think that way.

Plan your skate, skate your plan. If you plan eight triples, land eight triples. If you can't land eight triples, plan a program that you can execute.

For once I have to disagree Mathman. What a boring life tis would be, if everything went along with plan? The surprises and challenges are what keeps life and figure skating interesting.
Would you tell kids- nah, don't go for that career, you'll probably not make it, try something simpler? What if they actually accomplish that?
(Einstein did )
If Mao wants to challenge herself and go for 8 triples, then kudos! Go for it! Wouldn't it be awesome if she does that? There may be stumbles along the way, but that's what makes each competition exciting, we're always left wondering, will she be able to do it this time, by the Olympics?

This was a good competition, everyone put up a good fight, nice way to start off Olympic season.
I always have respect for Mao because of the way her last few seasons were, but she never stopped fighting. If you look at her 1st competition in 2011, and see her now, you would never be saying, only 6 triples?
Haters will be haters, oh the power of jealousy.

Ashley was also awesome for how solid she was in both SP and LP, and she's really showing her confidence, even though it's a bit too much drama for me, but that's her personality haha.
Radionova is another youngster fighting to the top, I wish her luck, but only time will tell.