2013 US Nationals Senior FD

[ice coverage]

Wait...Zach Donohue has facial hair? Since...when?

/shows you how much I watch live.

Sorry, forgot to reply earlier, Chemistry. @Z_Donohue had tweeted earlier on Saturday:

‏Last few hours of the goatee.... Gonna miss you buddy! http://instagr.am/p/U9YtAOg5Bk/
11:45 AM - 26 Jan 13​

I think the implication seems to be that it was just another cosmetic accoutrement for competitive purposes.

 

[ice coverage]

From this article: http://espn.go.com/espnw/more-sports/7116870/alex-maia-shibutani-make-ice-dancing-family-business



So it sounds like Dad is unlikely a Japanese citizen (or likely gave up dual citizenship long ago), so it would be through their mother.

Anyway, these posts are laughable. For me, the fact that people see this result as the Shibs regressing and/or a federation dumping is actually an insult to the improvements made by the teams behind them. The Shibs had a very strong FD and the fact that Chock and Bates beat them, speaks to the fact that Chock and Bates have improved greatly. Not to mention the fact if they didn't have a deduction for an extended lift, they would be virtually tied.

I'll note that the Shibs beat C&B in PCS in both segments.

And yes golden, I agree with you -- they clearly love skating with each other and for team USA and they have a connection with each other that they can't replicate with other partners.

Thanks as always, Mrs. P.

Will note that the Shibutanis had lift deductions for both their SD and FD. Had they not lost those two full points, they would have placed second overall, ahead (barely ahead, but ahead) of Chock/Bates. [I think I've got the numbers right this time, for once. ]

I believe that the speculation about joining Team Japan is far-fetched regardless, but I have a question: if the parent(s) born in Japan have given up his/her/their Japanese citizenship to become naturalized U.S. citizens, would the children still be eligible for Japanese citizenship? I am guessing not, but only a guess. Seems within the realm of possibility to me that Mom Shibutani gave up her Japanese citizenship well before any inkling that Maia and Alex would become world-class athletes.

 

[pangtongfan]

The Shibutanis can keep skating together for the U.S and keep going until 2018 if they wish (personally I think they are in terminal decline now and wouldnt even make the 2018 Olympic team, heck they arent a lock to make 2014). There is more to skate for then medals, and they are still having enough success at this point I imagine it is atleast mildly fun for now. That said it is funny to see so many in this thread take offense to the suggestion they are on the way down. Hello, they were 3rd at Worlds in 2011, 9th last year, are probably slated for something like 9th this year based on their grand prix results and 3rd place here, and have been beaten by a team who was way behind them in the U.S last year. It is indisputable that at the moment they are on their way down. Could they turn it around. Of course it is possible, but the observations made in this thread are quite correct.

That said I am not sure if they should get new partners. That really is up to them. There is no guarantee they would do better in a new partnership anyway.

I do think unfair to them but there is alot of ill will to their medal at the 2011 Worlds which created quite a huge controversy, and they are paying a price for that in their scores since as well. As I said that is unfair since it isnt their fault the judges gave them this huge gift, but it still had alot of people angry, from the Russians who came 6th and 7th on their home ice, from the Canadians, to perhaps some in the ISU, and the effect is visbile since. Weaver & Poje were royally screwed out of the podium that year after P&B fell, but that is the story of W&Ps career, probably the most consistently screwed over team ever.

 

[FlattFan]

Anyway, these posts are laughable. For me, the fact that people see this result as the Shibs regressing and/or a federation dumping is actually an insult to the improvements made by the teams behind them. The Shibs had a very strong FD and the fact that Chock and Bates beat them, speaks to the fact that Chock and Bates have improved greatly. Not to mention the fact if they didn't have a deduction for an extended lift, they would be virtually tied.

I'll note that the Shibs beat C&B in PCS in both segments.

C&B are promising. They progressed at a scary rate. They beat the Shibs at their best in two years after getting together in little time.
By this time next year, I can guarantee until C&B mess up something, the Shibs will play for bronze.
The Shibs still beat C&B in PCS because they were world medalists and C&B are still nobody.

Shibs are regressing/declining. They are like K/S of pairs. They are done done done. I see them struggling to make top 10 this year actually. D/W, V/M, P/B, I/K, B/S, C/B, C/L, R/T, the other canadian team. If dropping in ranking year after year isn't regressing/declining, what do you call that?

 

[WeakAnkles]

What is it about some of the people on this board? It's either HYPE! HYPE! HYPE! on the flimsiest of evidence or it's DOOM AND GLOOM! (and on equally flimsy evidence).

Perhaps with the Shibs it isn't a matter of REgressing so much as it is this: they are not PROgressing at the same rate of other teams at the moment (aka the plateau effect).

That, however, is not the same thing as saying Oh for land's sake, hang up those skates NOW and take up gardening...

Jeez!

 

[samson]

I actually think this is the best free dance I've seen the Shibs do since worlds 2011. Marina eluded to the fact that she has plans to work a lot with them and perfect their programs even more.

The technical quality of their skating is undeniable and they had a certain poetic elegance that I think is very unique to this team. You know what I think a large part of it is? More than any other Ice Dance team I've ever seen I think they are really experiencing growing pains and finally moving beyond them. It's important to remember that at least through the top 7 Ice Dance teams in the US they are easily the youngest team in age.

I think they had one style and look which was very cute and charming when they were both little, and now they are figuring out their new aesthetic. Searching for something that is mature, essential and appropriate for them. It's still a work in progress but they began to capture a little magic that is uniquely their own again in the free dance here. Still haven't seen their short dance from Nationals but I think that concept is a good stretch for them. While they're getting the levels on their lifts, I'd like to see a little more innovation, more of a daredevil quality. Particularly because I look at their final choreographic dance lift and the picture and quality is so very special and unique to them but the rest of the lifts also exist in that quality.

Chock and Bates were lovely and Hubbell and Donahue were such a breath of fresh air too. More thoughts on them later but I need to sleeeeeeeeep

 

[demarinis5]

Congratulations to Meryl and Charlie they were just amazing!

Chock and Bates have really improved this season Congrats to them for winning the Silver!

Loved the Shibs and Hubbell/Donahue! Overall great FD competition and I thioroughtly enjoyed it.

 

[blackswanphoto]

I actually think this is the best free dance I've seen the Shibs do since worlds 2011. Marina eluded to the fact that she has plans to work a lot with them and perfect their programs even more.

The technical quality of their skating is undeniable and they had a certain poetic elegance that I think is very unique to this team. You know what I think a large part of it is? More than any other Ice Dance team I've ever seen I think they are really experiencing growing pains and finally moving beyond them. It's important to remember that at least through the top 7 Ice Dance teams in the US they are easily the youngest team in age.

I think they had one style and look which was very cute and charming when they were both little, and now they are figuring out their new aesthetic. Searching for something that is mature, essential and appropriate for them. It's still a work in progress but they began to capture a little magic that is uniquely their own again in the free dance here. Still haven't seen their short dance from Nationals but I think that concept is a good stretch for them. While they're getting the levels on their lifts, I'd like to see a little more innovation, more of a daredevil quality. Particularly because I look at their final choreographic dance lift and the picture and quality is so very special and unique to them but the rest of the lifts also exist in that quality.

Chock and Bates were lovely and Hubbell and Donahue were such a breath of fresh air too. More thoughts on them later but I need to sleeeeeeeeep

Totally agree. Best to call a spade a spade. They are on the way down and there will be no recovery. While they always had good technique, the Shibutani's just do not have the natural DANCE ability to do anything about their decline. While I do think Alex may have a chance with a different partner, like one of those Russian bombshells. Maia, no way. Just too boring, not fluid and stiff as a board. Sorry!

 

[Dots]

Totally agree. Best to call a spade a spade. They are on the way down and there will be no recovery.

lol What in the world? What's with all the gloom and doom!?

I'm reading all these nonsense and I keep asking myself. Are they dying or something??


The Shibutanis will be alright. They're one of the future stars of the next quad!

Anyway last year all three US couples made the top ten. Now I wonder if the US can step it up another level and have all three of their couples be in the top 8. That would be fantastic!

 

[blackswanphoto]

lol What in the world? What's with all the gloom and doom!?

I'm reading all these nonsense and I keep asking myself. Are they dying or something??


The Shibutanis will be alright. They're one of the future stars of the next quad!

Anyway last year all three US couples made the top ten. Now I wonder if the US can step it up another level and have all three of their couples be in the top 8. That would be fantastic!

They went from being third in the WORLD to barely scraping by and being gifted third on the national podium. That's a huge decline.

 

[sky_fly20]

They went from being third in the WORLD to barely scraping by and being gifted third on the national podium. That's a huge decline.

and by next Season the Shibs will have a hard time even getting bronze with Hubell/Donohue continue improving and
Aldridge/Eaton will be seniors next season

 

[FlattFan]

If it regress like a duck, it must be the shibs.

 

[Whitneyskates]

If Aldridge/Eaton are seniors next year then they will be a non factor. They were majorly gifted with scores at nationals. They're in no danger of beating the Shibs or any of the top senior teams any time soon. If there's any of the top 5 that need to call it a day it's Lynn and Logan, talk about a road to nowhere. The Shibs were no more gifted scores than anyelse was. H/D hadn't reached those scores all season and suddenly they're breaking 100 at nationals, that won't happen anywhere else, neither will C/B's scores.

 

[KKonas]

and by next Season the Shibs will have a hard time even getting bronze with Hubell/Donohue continue improving and
Aldridge/Eaton will be seniors next season

Hubbell/Donahue are "in your face" skaters, not a lot of subtlety there. Wouldn't worry about the Shibs, they just need to find better programs. Best ice dancer coming up by far is Jean-Luc Baker. He has deep soft knees and wonderful musicality. Too bad he is so short, but perhaps with time his new partnership will gel.

 

[Mathman]

I thought Madison Chock's Russian snow bunny dress was cute.

 

[Mrs. P]

Wow this thread.:disapp: I guess nobody cares that Davis and White won their fifth title.

Anyway, I find these regression arguments amusing because it seems like they come with little context. Yes, I guess it's easy to say "The Shibs have regressed because they used to be third in the world and now they dropped to third in nationals."

Here's some context: We're not seeing a regression in ability of the Shibutanis technical skills. They still have some of the quietest blades in Ice Dance (something noted by Tracey Wilson yesterday). Tanith and Tracey both commented about how you can take a photo at any given moment of their dance because their lines and extension are so well-matched. The struggle this season has been in getting levels. Even Davis and White and Virtue and Moir have struggled to get levels, but you don't see anybody saying they have technically regressed. But all season long, as far as grades of execution, they have scored well.

The problem is that places 4-10 are actually quite crowded, with the teams all having similar levels of skating in the eyes of the judges. The Shibutani's bronze in 2011, clearly came with a tons of stars aligning -- a solid set of programs, mistakes from the others in front of them, etc. Judging by the Grand Prix from the previous fall nobody would have expected this -- they didn't even make the GPF that year.

Ice Dance, thankfully, has not stay static. A number of the teams have improved on the technical side, which is where the Shibs have done well historically. So as a result you have the shuffling of placements based on who best rises to the occasion that day. As we learned later, Alex was dealing with injury and couldn't train fully, so we weren't even dealing with a 100 percent Shibs teams at Worlds last year.

That said, the challenge for them -- besides getting those levels -- is improving that PCS score. Which provides less concrete feedback. And that's why you see them doing this style exploring they've done the last year. And they haven't found something that sticks.

As I mentioned before Maia and Alex look quite young for their age. They look like they're the same age as some of the U.S. junior dancers. That's not their fault -- as I noted Asians (I am one) look young for their age. You think the judges would not mix up youth with maturity, but the programs they did previously only enhanced that youth (and garnered the low scores with it), and as a result they got lower PCS scores. So I don't blame them for trashing the Mary Poppins SD and going for something abstract.

When you think about it's a lot to process in one year -- so it certainly makes sense if they struggle in the short term while they figure this all out.

The Shibs continue to have technical qualities to keep them a top team, however, I don't dispute the fact they now have to work on a whole other things - artistry, style, etc.-- if they want to stay competitive and rise up the ranks. And that takes more time for some teams for others.

 

[Tonichelle]

Wow this thread.:disapp: I guess nobody cares that Davis and White won their fifth title.

Meh, it wasn't an overdramatic feat like it was for the other teams who made it (or didn't) to 5.

 

[emma]

Well, I can't disagree with Tonichelle - I thinks something so unspeakably often would have had to happen for D/W not to win, and it was amazing what the other teams brought to their final positions. That said, OMG (and for Mrs P) Davis and White - 5 time US national champions with two spectacular programs. Their SD had me from the first outing - but my goodness, their FD has grown on my and I had chills and was just 'open jawed' watching their FD performance.

Way to really rock it! My goodness they are so talented, and so gutsy, and so well trained, and they performed the heck out of that one. I really can't wait to rewatch it several times.

 

[Mrs. P]

Well, I can't disagree with Tonichelle - I thinks something so unspeakably often would have had to happen for D/W not to win, and it was amazing what the other teams brought to their final positions. That said, OMG (and for Mrs P) Davis and White - 5 time US national champions with two spectacular programs. Their SD had me from the first outing - but my goodness, their FD has grown on my and I had chills and was just 'open jawed' watching their FD performance.

Way to really rock it! My goodness they are so talented, and so gutsy, and so well trained, and they performed the heck out of that one. I really can't wait to rewatch it several times.

For me that's amazing about it. D/W didn't really have to go all out to win the title - they could have been at 70 percent and still won. But no, they were at 100 percent (as they always are) and did with two AMAZING programs. But yes, I agree the FD has been an amazing progression, just like their FD from 2011. Worlds is going to be a big treat for Ice Dance fans!

 

[chloepoco]

I really don't understand all this hate for the Shibutani's...my goodness!