Thanks...glad Josh moved on. Yes they really need to get Jason, Josh and Alexander out there on the gp senior circuit.
2013 US Nationals Senior Men LP
- Thread starter Art&Sport
- Start date
Thanks...glad Josh moved on. Yes they really need to get Jason, Josh and Alexander out there on the gp senior circuit.
After watching Jeremy...I loved his skating a few years ago - seems like he has become over stylized - trying too hard to live up to his theatrical reputation - and in the process his skating has lost its oopmh - no dynamics - none of the "grab the gold ring"... seems to be working too hard on emotion. Sad!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Well, I haven't done any extensive analysis. But this is one of the common criticisms of the IJS.
I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest. Experiments have been conducted in which some other component is listed first, like P&E, and then that one, rather than SS, becomes dominant.
Interestingly, TR is almost always the lowest of the five for all skaters. I think this is because it is the easiest to quantify. For components that are most subjective, like INT, I think the judges tend to give the skaters the benefit of the doubt more.
Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka
), I think Jeremy needs tougher coaches. Someone has to tell him that this is an athletic contest. You can express yourself by soulful moping about on your own time. :yes:
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
Statistically, having the 5 components is almost always meaningless, because they don't vary much one from the other at all, like Mathman said. You might as well just have one score given the way the scores are used now. I'm not advocating that -- I'd rather judges actually score the components separately, but they don't.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Agreed. He is not Tom Dickson you know.
Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka
I hear you. I used to love Jeremy's skating but his torturous emoting on ice seemed over-the-top, tiresome to watch and unbelievably self-indulgent. I felt like telling him to get over himself and, as you said, Mathman, save the moping for his private life. I hope someone on his team can help him do this.
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This is the Jeremy we use to know and wow I didn't realized how small he was in 2008/2009.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01yT7n8_qQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R01yT7n8_qQ
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
I really liked his Les Mis program, but perhaps the song doesn't lend itself to fast powerful skating tho. Jeremy's Exogenesis program from last season is one of my favorite programs of all time. I wish he could have skated that one well at Worlds, but I'll always remember his performance at 2012 Nationals. I loved that program more than anything Chan or Takahashi have ever done. Jeremy is an extraordinary artist.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
Yup!
Wow Jeremy looked so much smaller back then even though he was about 22. He looked faster too and his jumps were much better. He no doubt had the talent to accomplish a lot more internationally then he has. Now at almost 28 i can't see him being this good ever again.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2009
The difficulty in using "Bring Him Home" (or any piece from Les Miserables), personally, is that the power of the musical comes from the human voice. A poorly sung Les Miserables is a torturous experience (unless I'm singing it, in which case it's torturous for other people). So it rather startles me just how moved I am by this skate. Much like Chan's "Aranjuez" it's such a gorgeous marriage blade and music. Every moment is held for the perfect length of time. It's a program of patience, almost, and that makes it rare. I didn't care for "Exogenesis" - I thought the Kerrs skated to it much better the season earlier and I don't like the music much in the first place. Indeed, I'd argue that Jeremy's more of a great short program skater (to be fair, though, artistically cohesive shorts are far more common), but "Bring Him Home" is so far and away my favourite singles program this year. Beautiful.
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Well, I haven't done any extensive analysis. But this is one of the common criticisms of the IJS.
I think psychologically, the tendency is to score the first component (SS) as thoughtfully as possible, then to use that as a gauge for all the rest. Experiments have been conducted in which some other component is listed first, like P&E, and then that one, rather than SS, becomes dominant.
Interestingly, TR is almost always the lowest of the five for all skaters. I think this is because it is the easiest to quantify. For components that are most subjective, like INT, I think the judges tend to give the skaters the benefit of the doubt more.
Sadly, I agree. As much as I like Jason and Yuka (especially Yuka
I love it; that is what I would call Brian Boitano when he became or tried to become artistic. It wasn't innate and there was always that spread eagle and that dramatic stare. Sometimes you just wanted him to fall oops my inner voice lol
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2008
This is still his best performance ever. And one of THE best performances ever. "Transitions" have never been more effectively used than here, except for maybe some of Matt Savoie's programs.
His SP and LP were also both completely brilliant in in the 2007/2008 season, although he wasn't ever able to deliver all the technical content that season. Jeremy's 3Loop was always gorgeous back then, though. What happened to it?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2012
I am sure that has a lot to do with Tom Dickson,who's work I adore.
You know if judges handed out PCS based on the actual criteria and not how many jumps skaters landed, the gap between Abbott and Aaron would have been so huge, Abbott would have crushed him even with multiple errors on the jumps. Sadly the reality of judging is very different.
I remember that last time I watched Aaron (JGPF two seasons ago I think?), he had a performance worthy of 1.75 IN. He just ignored the music. This season more effort has been put into his choreography and he has improved his presentation slightly but it's still terrible.
It really irks me to see so many people say that Max Aaron was the best skater in the SP & FS overall. He wasn't. He landed the most difficult jumps, yes, but he was far, far from being the best skater overall.
P.S. I owe an apology to Max Aaron, I think he's actually tweezed for Nationals. ;P
This. I really wish more skaters used Dickson instead of Lori Zzzichol.
What is amazing about it? The vast majority of competitive skaters are never able to achieve landing that jump consistently.
He's been competing both at international and national level for ages now. This was his 4th Senior Nationals. He was also a Junior bronze medallist. And he has a gold and a bronze JGP medal and made the JGPF once.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00010277.htm
It holds true for PCS judging in general. With very very few exceptions, judges never differentiate their PCS marks even though the skaters they are judging usually display very different levels of the PCS abilities.
Yes, something like that. Also, I think that SS is the thing judges notice and care about the most. It was the same during 6.0 days. Presentation mark was basically a skating skills mark even though skating skills were supposed to be evaluated in the technical mark.
ISU really should bring in split judging panels. I believe it's not possible to fully focus on both the elements and the PCS.
I remember that last time I watched Aaron (JGPF two seasons ago I think?), he had a performance worthy of 1.75 IN. He just ignored the music. This season more effort has been put into his choreography and he has improved his presentation slightly but it's still terrible.
It really irks me to see so many people say that Max Aaron was the best skater in the SP & FS overall. He wasn't. He landed the most difficult jumps, yes, but he was far, far from being the best skater overall.
P.S. I owe an apology to Max Aaron, I think he's actually tweezed for Nationals. ;P
This. I really wish more skaters used Dickson instead of Lori Zzzichol.
What is amazing about it? The vast majority of competitive skaters are never able to achieve landing that jump consistently.
He's been competing both at international and national level for ages now. This was his 4th Senior Nationals. He was also a Junior bronze medallist. And he has a gold and a bronze JGP medal and made the JGPF once.
http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs_cr_00010277.htm
It holds true for PCS judging in general. With very very few exceptions, judges never differentiate their PCS marks even though the skaters they are judging usually display very different levels of the PCS abilities.
Yes, something like that. Also, I think that SS is the thing judges notice and care about the most. It was the same during 6.0 days. Presentation mark was basically a skating skills mark even though skating skills were supposed to be evaluated in the technical mark.
ISU really should bring in split judging panels. I believe it's not possible to fully focus on both the elements and the PCS.
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i'm glad my post helped put the Jeremy's situation in perspective. at this point, i just want Jeremy to get healthy, strong, and ready so if he is needed at worlds, he can be competitive...regardless, i hope he sticks around for next year. He deserves it. As we all know, he developed more slowly than his peers (Johnny and Evan), and came into the spotlight much later. But as a result, he brings a maturity and wisdom to his skating that makes him that much more enjoyable to watch. Who knows, maybe a healthy and prepared Jeremy will make an appearance next season. Even if the US only gets to send 2 men to Sochi, I just want to see Jeremy end his career on a high note, with one last truly magical skate for his coaches, the fans, and more importantly himself...if anything, to remind everyone (especially USFS) how special the sport of figure skating is and how incredible it has been to watch Jeremy skate and represent Team USA
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
I think it's the tight costume that makes Jeremy look so small. The billowy shirts make him look broader, but put him in a catsuit and I'm sure he'd still look very thin and "tiny" on the ice (although he is fairly tall, or at least appears so, and was even then).
OMG...finally had time to sit and watch Alex Johnson's FS...OMG...that was BEAUTIFUL, i think it was best skate of Sunday afternoon. the fluidity, speed, control, elegance, just LOVED IT
(seriously, NBC you couldn't make time to replay it on the broadcast?!?!?)
also, I was happy to see Adam enjoy skating for the first time in a while, he was really having fun...i don't know how far he'll get next season, but he definitely got stronger as the season progressed this year and he finally landed THREE 3A's in a competition (albeit the 3rd one didn't have the best landing...) which has to be a sigh of relief for everyone
(seriously, NBC you couldn't make time to replay it on the broadcast?!?!?)
also, I was happy to see Adam enjoy skating for the first time in a while, he was really having fun...i don't know how far he'll get next season, but he definitely got stronger as the season progressed this year and he finally landed THREE 3A's in a competition (albeit the 3rd one didn't have the best landing...) which has to be a sigh of relief for everyone
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- Joined
- Nov 12, 2009
So I'm curious, what do Phil Hersh and Johnny Weir think about the outcome of the men's results? I know Johnny likes Max's eyebrows, but that's about all I know.
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