2013 Worlds Ladies SP

[Icey]

I'm not completely sure about this, but I believe that the highest and the lowest grade for each component are discarded. While that 9 for IN was overly enthusiastic, the 6.25 was totally uncalled for, so I guess it evens out.

Elaboration
A computer randomly selects the scores awarded by seven out of nine judges. Of THOSE scores, the lowest and highest are thrown out and the remaining five are totaled for a final score. The marks of all nine judges are displayed on the protocols, so the judges don't know whether or not their marks contributed to the score.
Thus the scores of 5 judges determine the score.

So one way or the other the 9 was thrown out.

 

[kalle]

My thoughts after watching the programs again:

Yuna was never a favorite of mine but she is actually is growing on me.Well deserved first place and I thought she would have scored around 72points but I guess the lower level spins explains her actual score??

Even if she is sort of a newbie, I would have Osmond in second place.Absolutely loved that performance,the flow,the charisma and the natural joy she projects.She seemed in control and I hope she will be able to come into her LP with the same mentality.Like with Yuna, I could watch her jumps for hours,great height,distance and flow...just amazing. I would have scored her around 66-68 points.

Kanako has been a sentimental favorite for a few seasons and extremely happy she had such a good program.Of course, she would score even higher with better technique but I always enjoy her performances and think she is kind of an artist out there.Well deserved third place after the short and her score was fair for me.

I would have Kostner in fourth place but close to Kanako point wise,around 65-66.If Kanako is "growing" into an artist,Kostner is "the artist"!I just love how she,Suzuki and Wagner seems to get better with age,like a good bottle of wine
Obviously a costly mistake on the combo otherwise a fine, fine performance and I enjoy everything about her SP.

Wagner's placement/points are right for me but cannot help being a tad disappointed..I know she is going on in interviews about getting 3 spots for the US (nothing really wrong with that)BUT...figure skating is also an invidual sport and with her progress these last two seasons,she should aim for gold!I am not expecting her to say that in interviews but that should be her state of mind regardless the outcome.I have always seen Wagner as a fighter and it is a bit frustrating to know she could/would have been right up at the top with Yuna if she had managed to squeeze in that 3F/3T.I am positive she will come back strong in the LP and fingers crossed,her final placement will be a step up from last Worlds..

I like Mao but would have scored Akiko and/or even Adelina over her at this part of the competition..In any case, the top ten are rather close and cannot wait to see how everyone will attack their LP's

On a side note, I actually like Gracice's SP better than her LP (I guess I am the only one!).I think she did pretty good and even her arms did not disturb me this time around..She skates "big" like Yuna/Osmond/Adelina and I wonder if the "jitters" are out and ready for the LP..She could potentially move up quite a lot if skating close to clean and that should motivate her.

 

[Icey]

When did Lori start sitting in the K&C with the skater whose program she choreographed? She was with Carolina and others during the competition. I don't recall her ever sitting with Michelle and Frank.

 

[Ziggy]

It's predictable, yet still frustrating to see Kostner's performance producing the usual mindless, knee-jerk reactions from skating fans who really should know better.

There are 7 technical elements in the short program as well as 5 program components to consider. Just because a skater falls on one of those seven elements does not mean that suddenly everything else doesn't count any more.

It's happened before with Sale/Pelletier, Chan and many other skaters and it's going to keep happening. I understand that people have immediate emotional reactions to things they care about but we also have brains and are able to analyse things and think critically.

Humans beings are so disappointing.

 

[jiggs]

It's predictable, yet still frustrating to see Kostner's performance producing the usual mindless, knee-jerk reactions from skating fans who really should know better.

There are 7 technical elements in the short program as well as 5 program components to consider. Just because a skater falls on one of those seven elements does not mean that suddenly everything else doesn't count any more.

Humans beings are so disappointing.

This! THANK YOU!

 

[rvi5]

The judging system is really clumsy.
If judges don't get to review jumps afterwards, how can we be sure that the score is trustworthy?
Unlike most of other sports, figure skating doesn't have video replay nor objection system.
I know that this sports is not all about techniques but ISU judging system is way too far behind the technology and acurracy.

Yes, it does have video replay for the judges.

 

[Kinga]

The point is that Kostner had a very prominent fall. The question has been asked on this thread as to why that should matter.

From a PCS perspective, I have long (and publicly, too) maintained that a technical shortcoming becomes an aesthetic shortcoming when it significantly affects the arc, mood, flow, or design of the program, and its relationship with the music (which are all, directly or indirectly, enshrined in the PCS bullets). This is why, in my very strong opinion, a slight two-footed landing, say, or even a planned triple that is doubled, should have a lesser impact, while a splat should have far greater. Therefore, there should have been a material effect on at least PE, IN and CH.

This^

shouldn't the question be why was Kostner's score so high with a fall??? Even her Chanesque qualities don't make up that much!

And this. It's not like others are just juniors skaters. Kanako's performance was very sublime too and Mao certainly has great SS too.

Yu-Na's 3Flip was excellent and the edge call is ridiculous. She didn't deserve to break 70 with that performance anyway, though, so I guess it evens out. Having the overall best jumps and polish of the competition puts her in 1st place.

Murakami - SOOOO happy she finally got judged fairly. A well deserved 2nd place.

The rambunctious Canadian girl did a very good job. She actually deserves the highest transitions component out of everyone. Needs a little more maturity and thoughtful choreography, and the spins could be better too. 3rd place.

Ashley Wagner's performance was solid. Well-controlled and engaging for the most part. It's too bad the last section of the program is underwhelming. Her footwork sequence is merely adequate and that final spin is disappointing. I would have put her 4th.

Kostner's second toeloop in combination absolutely should have got a < call (it honestly could have even been called << when you look at how she pre-rotates on the ice) and -3 GOE across the board for that combination. The program is hackneyed too; those Program Components for choreography should be a lot lower. Deserved 5th place at best.

I completely agree with you assessement this time . You always phrase your opinions in such an articulated way.

LOL. Really? Behind Wagner?
Both landed 2 triples + 2A cleanly, but Caro's quality is supremely superior.
Caro scored higher in both spins and steps. Caro is superior in every PCS. And behind Wagner? Think with your head.

Yes, behind Wagner. Ashley landed a monstrous 3F. Beautiful leaf-jump (how is it called properly?) after 2A. Nice 3L. So yet, it does outscore 3T-3T (fall and yes, UR), nice 3L and nice 2A, at least in my book. I agree Caro had better steps and edges, yet I think Ashley still should score slightly more points than Caro. (Im not saying by much).

As to Flattfan, yeah Carolina is a lovely talented skater who is defending world champion, but if you don't think it makes a difference to come from a country that the head of the ISU is also from, think again. I'm not saying that will necessarily buy you a championship. A skater obviously has to have good skills and gain a good reputation, but clearly a good skater who is talented and competitive can and does benefit from savvy federation politics, especially in Carolina's case. There were a few years when Carolina made the podium with mistakes that should not have rewarded her with a medal. She should feel very charmed and happy. No one is saying that she hasn't tremendously improved and deserves to be highly regarded and rewarded, but when you make mistakes that other top-rated skaters did not make, in the high stakes and with the talented depth that exists today, ya gotta pay and not get off lightly. You know good and well that had Ash made the slightest mistake, she would have paid big time!

ITA!

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Elaboration
A computer randomly selects the scores awarded by seven out of nine judges. Of THOSE scores, the lowest and highest are thrown out and the remaining five are totaled for a final score. The marks of all nine judges are displayed on the protocols, so the judges don't know whether or not their marks contributed to the score.
Thus the scores of 5 judges determine the score.

So one way or the other the 9 was thrown out.

I thought they got rid of random selection.

 

[venlac]

"When I first heard the score, I was a little bit surprised," Kim said. "My first thought was perhaps my spin wasn't good enough (that) I got downgraded for that. However, on the screen, I checked and it wasn't really something I was expecting. In the end, I was a little surprised but I know I tried my best so I have no regret."

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/03/14/yuna-kim-showing-no-signs-of-rust-at-worlds

 

[wallylutz]

I thought they got rid of random selection.

They did, no more random selection of marks. Maybe some people stopped following this sport when Yu NA took a break and just woke up to a changed world.

 

[jenaj]

This^

Yes, behind Wagner. Ashley landed a monstrous 3F. Beautiful leaf-jump (how is it called properly?) after 2A. Nice 3L. So yet, it does outscore 3T-3T (fall and yes, UR), nice 3L and nice 2A, at least in my book. I agree Caro had better steps and edges, yet I think Ashley still should score slightly more points than Caro. (Im not saying by much).
ITA!

I agree. I thought Ashley's program was very good. It was clean as a whistle and while she only did a 3-2, she did it very well. She also got extra points on her loop for putting it later in the program. Nice transition into the loop, too. Whatever advantage Kostner gained through edges and footwork should have been negated by the fall on the 3T. And with the 1 point mandatory deduction, Ashley should have been ahead of her.

 

[jenaj]

"When I first heard the score, I was a little bit surprised," Kim said. "My first thought was perhaps my spin wasn't good enough (that) I got downgraded for that. However, on the screen, I checked and it wasn't really something I was expecting. In the end, I was a little surprised but I know I tried my best so I have no regret."

http://www.lfpress.com/2013/03/14/yuna-kim-showing-no-signs-of-rust-at-worlds

This is like a skater under the old system complaining that she didn't get more 6.0's. (Did that ever happen?) I know that with ordinals, placements were more important, but really--69.97 is a very high score. If Yu Na has a complaint, it is that others were scored too high.

 

[Mrs. P]

This is like a skater under the old system complaining that she didn't get more 6.0's. (Did that ever happen?) I know that with ordinals, placements were more important, but really--69 and a fraction is a very high score. If Yu Na has a complaint, it is that others were scored too high.

Actually it was very close to 70. just .03 points away.

 

[tulosai]

If you think (as many here do, I see) that Kostner is being held up despite mistakes, you have to ask, WHY? She comes from a middle sized country without any of the weight of the Japanese, US, Canadian or Russian feds, and her coach isn't a know mover and shaker like TAT, Frank Carroll or Mishin. I don't think she benefits from any behind the scenes advantages. More likely, I think, is that the judges are holding up beautiful skating, which she is delivering right now. A fall in an otherwise beautiful program might just be preferable to a clean but dull and I-can't-be-bothered program from some other skater. I for one am glad they continue to reward artistic innovation and beautiful line. Otherwise all we'd have is a bunch of girls in gloves and body suits squeezing out triple triples while some generic tango music plays unnoticed in the background.

This. Alissa Czisny was held up to some degree I think for this SAME reason. People can complain about it all they want but I for one am glad too for the reasons you state.

 

[jenaj]

They did, no more random selection of marks. Maybe some people stopped following this sport when Yu NA took a break and just woke up to a changed world.

Or maybe some people have other things going on in their lives and can't keep up with all the changes in this complicated (I was going to say, ridiculous) judging system.

 

[prettykeys]

This is like a skater under the old system complaining that she didn't get more 6.0's. (Did that ever happen?) I know that with ordinals, placements were more important, but really--69 and a fraction is a very high score. If Yu Na has a complaint, it is that others were scored too high.

No, it's not really like complaining about not getting more 6.0's. The other competitions throughout this season have had massive inflation and lenient technical standards, with borderline underrotations being overlooked for some skaters. YuNa did not compete at more competitions so all she could do in her strategic guesswork was calculate her expected score compared to other skaters' scores from these inflated competitions if she went "clean". And she was mostly clean, so I guess that was her "huh?" moment.

Of course, me being the smartypant fan was relieved she held on steady and knew that the score she got from this tough panel was good. It also makes it ironically sweet for Kanako that she got her jumps ratified under this tech panel. Maybe instead of going merely by reputation they WERE indeed reviewing every jump thoroughly, which is nice. So, minor nitpicks aside... the judging in the SP was very, very good in my estimation.

I hope they continue in the FS.

 

[Icey]

They did, no more random selection of marks. Maybe some people stopped following this sport when Yu NA took a break and just woke up to a changed world.

Sorry for the misinformation. No, I didn't take a break from the sport when Yu Na did. In fact, I only became a fan of hers this year. I just somehow missed the change in methodology. Judging continuously proves to be an enigma to me. But when a sport has to have a first aid manual for the judges themselves, I'm not going to beat myself up for not fully knowing everything. I end up in a state of perplexity in any case.

 

[prettykeys]

My heart is up my throat and my pants are wet.

BTW, I missed this comment... LOL!

 

[Skater Boy]

I have to say I am seeing Carolina's quality more and more. However, she isn't that superior in this area to make up for a fall. The other girls right behind her while not pc wise up to Carolina deserved to be ahead with a major flaw. And if you look a the scores I believe it is clear if Kostner had skated clean despite an inferior or lesser jump combo she would have beaten Yuna by a couple of points. While Yuna is a bit generic her amazing flow and confidence is something to marvel at. Its like Carolina can make two major mistakes and still beat clean other decent skaters. She is not that much better and osme may say only equal to Queen Yuna. I do believe or expect we will see Mao and Liza make huge leaps but we'll see. Statistically speaking Osmond or Gold probably will have a melt down but we'll see.

 

[berrycute]

When did Lori start sitting in the K&C with the skater whose program she choreographed? She was with Carolina and others during the competition. I don't recall her ever sitting with Michelle and Frank.

I think she only goes to Worlds if its in North America because she's based in Toronto. She's probably not paid by skating feds to accompany skaters so she stays close to home (relatively). She was in LA Worlds 2009 with Evan if I recall correctly.