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- Aug 12, 2014
I'm heading to bed as it's past 1AM here but I just wanted to say thank you, sequinsgalore for the hard work! 
2014 Lombardia Trophy
- Thread starter gsk8
- Start date
A 3T wouldn't have worked either because he repeats the 3A and the 3Lz already and he has a 3A-3T. I guess they just forgot about the "too many doubles" rule, since it's new from this season. Like you said earlier, a solo 3F would have been ok.
If he had done a 4T instead of a 2T, the 3F-2T would have been awarded fully. However, as the 2T was his 3rd in the program, he was penalized because of the Zayak rule. The back-up plan should have been just having the 3F since he had already done 2 2Ts. It seems he didn't have that in mind. It's good that he made that mistake early in the season though. I believe ISU wanted to discourage skaters from having 3 jump combinations comprising -2T-2T for the sake of getting more points!
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Welcome to Golden Skate, matmuh! We hope you have a good time here and post long and often !
Welcome, matmuh!
That could also work, I think, since he only has one other 2Lo in the program, in the 3-jump combo.
Yes that would have worked. The 2Lo in his 3F-2Lo would've been his 2nd 2Lo in his program, so OK.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2013
Watching some of the programs from today...
Denney/Frazier's program was really good IMO. I'm always surprised how different she is from her sister. I feel like they are definitely in the mix for the US Pairs championship this year.
Satoko again surprised me, I feel like she has stepped up her programs with finesse and maturity this year.
Hannah Miller, I just love her. I am liking these 'tense modern piano' programs a few skaters are doing - similar feel with Julia Lipnitskaia's short program IMO. Really sad Hannah doesn't have much of a chance to get on the GP this year - unless this score can help her, and that's something I'm still unclear on.
Angela Wang - I agree with remarks some others have made in that she has all the elements for success but needs to put them together.
Richard Dornbush - maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like he's getting better...? Maybe a GP medal for him this season is possible?
Denney/Frazier's program was really good IMO. I'm always surprised how different she is from her sister. I feel like they are definitely in the mix for the US Pairs championship this year.
Satoko again surprised me, I feel like she has stepped up her programs with finesse and maturity this year.
Hannah Miller, I just love her. I am liking these 'tense modern piano' programs a few skaters are doing - similar feel with Julia Lipnitskaia's short program IMO. Really sad Hannah doesn't have much of a chance to get on the GP this year - unless this score can help her, and that's something I'm still unclear on.
Angela Wang - I agree with remarks some others have made in that she has all the elements for success but needs to put them together.
Richard Dornbush - maybe I'm crazy, but I feel like he's getting better...? Maybe a GP medal for him this season is possible?
Miyahara was brilliant and her musicality outstanding. I especially liked her short program.
Miller was very good as well but it's a pity her FS music is so generic. I felt so annoyed by the music, I almost stopped watching the program before the end.
Wang was ok. Her FS music suits her better than the SP music but there is something very bland and flat in her on ice persona. In the SP there were moments where she just skated around looking very bored.
Miller was very good as well but it's a pity her FS music is so generic. I felt so annoyed by the music, I almost stopped watching the program before the end.
Wang was ok. Her FS music suits her better than the SP music but there is something very bland and flat in her on ice persona. In the SP there were moments where she just skated around looking very bored.
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- Jul 31, 2014
Ok I am a tad confused (sorry trying to learn the rules, as they both fascinate and baffle me) why would a 3T not be ok? I only see one 3T in the program total (with the 3A). So shouldn't he be able to do one more either in combination or alone? Does two 2Ts count as a 3T or something like that?
Glad I at least and following enough to understand the 3F would work. Seems like a reasonably easy contingency plan really. . . just play it safe if in doubt and does the jump alone and not in combo.
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- Mar 27, 2010
If he repeated the 3T, he'd run in trouble with the "two repeated triples per long program" Zayak rule (this is a very old rule; the one who actually applied to Zayak and others who stacked 3Ts back in the 80s).. he had already repeated 3A and 3Lz, so a second 3T would have the whole 3F-3T nullified as well.
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- Feb 3, 2011
The ISU wanted this rule to limit the skaters who did 5x 2Lz in their program, or 6x 2Lo. The problem with this rule is just what happened here, because you end up penalizing skaters twice for a first failed attempt by limiting their number of options in case of a second "mistake" being made.
Missed lady's competition but had a chance to watch most of men's.
Ricky really surprised me! I was not a big fan of him before (sorry Ricky!) but I really enjoyed his skating tonight. If he didn't zayak 2T he could score even higher - I wish he could have a great season with this kind of performance! Congratulations for all medalists!
(something made me
:
1) Mura's POTO music cut. Or maybe just POTO...
2) New late start rule - 60s down to 30s? Really? Any benefits?? The only good thing I could think of is that judges now can go home 10min earlier thanks to this new rule:think:
3) Zayak rule (the new and the old) - seeing that Amodio jumped 3S for 4 times and Ricky for his 2T was just a pain...
Ricky really surprised me! I was not a big fan of him before (sorry Ricky!) but I really enjoyed his skating tonight. If he didn't zayak 2T he could score even higher - I wish he could have a great season with this kind of performance! Congratulations for all medalists!
(something made me
:1) Mura's POTO music cut. Or maybe just POTO...
2) New late start rule - 60s down to 30s? Really? Any benefits?? The only good thing I could think of is that judges now can go home 10min earlier thanks to this new rule:think:
3) Zayak rule (the new and the old) - seeing that Amodio jumped 3S for 4 times and Ricky for his 2T was just a pain...
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
OK. . . so you can only repeat the same jump if it is done in combination, and on top of that you can only repeat two triples total. I think that "two repeated triples was kinda confusing me for awhile.
How do quads count? If you have two 4Ts, (say a 4T alone and a 4T+3L) can you then still do a 3T+3T and a say 3Z+3L? Only the Loop and Toe are repeated triples. Do quads count as repeated jumps?
Also speaking Zayak brainfart. . . Florent Amodio did four tipple salchows. . . so two of his passes did not count. I wonder if that was poor planning or getting lost on the ice, or some combination.
If a skater repeats the 4T, he can only repeat 1 more quad or 1 more triple.
You can only repeat 2 quads or triples. From this ISU document, pg. 103:
In your example, you are only allowed to repeat the 4T and then either the 3T or the 3L, not both triples.
This is one of the reasons why Yuzuru Hanyu (see his layout here) attempted two types of quads in his FS last season: this allowed him to also repeat 2 types of triples (3A + 3Lz), for a total of 8 triples.
I think at least one of those was intended to be a 4S, he had a good one a couple of seasons ago and was still attempting it last season.
The new Zayak rule is just crazy. I think it's okay for the ladies, because they don't perform quads yet, so all that could happen is they turn a triple into a double. But if a male skater plans two quads, he needs a back-up plan for the case he turns one if them into a triple, both of them into a triple, one into a double, both into a double, one into a triple and the other one into a double :sarcasm: And it gets even crazier for skaters like Fernandez, who plan three quads.
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
Just got home, and these are my impressions about Men's FS:
-Dornbush was incredible, his edging and flow over the ice are really wonderful (I had never understood how good he is before seeing him live) and except for that one mistake (he was hitting good quads in the warm-up, though), his program was fantastic, it really gave us emotions, it was not just the music, he was "sharing his feelings" with the audience! I was sitting near Franca Bianconi (probably the best coach in Italy at the moment: her students include Marchei, Rodeghiero, Berton/Hotarek in the past) and she gave him a standing ovation together with a couple of other people! Just one doubt, why is he attempting 4S in the SP and 4T in the FS?
-Mura was good but not even close to Ricky, artistically, even though his jumps are clearly more solid
-Pikteev totally deserved his lower PCS: he was technically rock solid, I didn't see him missing a single jump even in the warm-up and he just went out there and did his job, as if it was just a routine, but sadly with no emotion at all...
Fun note: Martinez was chased by a huge crowd of Philippine fans and had to wait a lot of time giving autographs and taking pics before he could go back to the changing rooms and finally take his skates off
-Dornbush was incredible, his edging and flow over the ice are really wonderful (I had never understood how good he is before seeing him live) and except for that one mistake (he was hitting good quads in the warm-up, though), his program was fantastic, it really gave us emotions, it was not just the music, he was "sharing his feelings" with the audience! I was sitting near Franca Bianconi (probably the best coach in Italy at the moment: her students include Marchei, Rodeghiero, Berton/Hotarek in the past) and she gave him a standing ovation together with a couple of other people! Just one doubt, why is he attempting 4S in the SP and 4T in the FS?
-Mura was good but not even close to Ricky, artistically, even though his jumps are clearly more solid
-Pikteev totally deserved his lower PCS: he was technically rock solid, I didn't see him missing a single jump even in the warm-up and he just went out there and did his job, as if it was just a routine, but sadly with no emotion at all...
Fun note: Martinez was chased by a huge crowd of Philippine fans and had to wait a lot of time giving autographs and taking pics before he could go back to the changing rooms and finally take his skates off
Javier's layout was problematic even last year, with the old rules, because his repeated jumps were the 4S and the 3S, which famously got him in trouble at the Olympics.
I agree that the rule is unnecessary, there are enough restrictions as it is for the "free" skate. It's going to become really difficult for skaters to make up for missed elements if they also have to worry about double jumps now.
