2014 Olympics Team Event Ladies Short Program
- Thread starter mirai4life
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It is very interesting because normally when a top 4/5 skater in the world upgrades his/her technical difficulty, like Wagner did when she added the 3flip+3toe to both her SP and LP, then PCS normally get a bump too, but not in Ashley's case. Wagner, like Kostner, is being pushed down internationally, so that the Russian teenagers can be pushed up. Standard home Olympics politicking at work here; nothing new. It will be very interesting to see what PCS Gracie Gold receives in her LP tomorrow in comparison to Lipnitskaya, especially if they both go clean.
I couldn't agree more.
I am so happy for Carolina. Watching her skate warms my heart whereas Julia leaves me kind of cold. I am sad about the judging. How can 5 judges give Julia higher or the same skating skill marks as Carolina? What did I miss? What drugs do judges take before the competition? How can Julia's 2A receive GOE +0.64 whereas Carolina's 2A receive +0.93?
I do not agree that Julia is technically and jumping-wise superior. Yes, she is flexible and she has nerves of steel. Yes, she lands her jumping passes. But that 2A is a hot mess and as tiny as a jump can be. So even if the base value of Carolina's jumps is lower IMO it should be balanced by the quality of her jumps. If she lands her jumps they have good length and flow out of it. Spinning-wise Julia is better, not question. Step-wise Carolina is way better and the point difference of 4.37 vs. 4.16 does not reflect that properly.
Here is hoping that the judging of Russian skaters will get better as soon as the Russian Federation has gotten the urgently desired Gold in the Team Event.
Isn't it funny, quite funny that their is not much chitter, chatter about Osmond. Well, well, she was wonderful and only a half point behind Wagner and being the first to skate. And lol and behold while napping before her short program with a do not disturb sign on her door, she was awakened with a surprise drug testing. She held it together and skated wonderfully...good luck girl
Things that go on the scorecard:
+1.40 GOE for flutz
SS that are in the lower half to third of the women that competed but were scored first by some judges
interpretation
The poster who said "Julia is a wind-up doll" got it exactly right. You wind her up before the music starts, release the string, and she just buzzes around the rink with music going in the background. That's not art, and it's definitely not entertaining to watch. Then you want to only focus on the techs and skating skills, but she doesn't have those either. The jumps are small. She flutzes and gets scored like she just did a massive 3-3.
And oh yeah, she draws a heart on the ice. How cute. Apparently buzzing around the rink like a wind-up doll and then drawing a heart on the ice qualifies as "moving". Louvre material, it ain't. Some posters have their personal favorites but are more than willing to acknowledge their shortcomings. I'll excuse the Russians because she's their countrywoman, I guess they have a right to be biased, but the other Julia fans are bizarre that they can't even discuss her pros and cons in a reasonable way. It's like you're obsessed with her winning because she's a little girl. Really weird.
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- Mar 14, 2013
Off topic from the scoring debate ...
Am I the only one who thought Kexin Zhang had a wardrobe malfunction? Or is that really how the top of her dress is supposed to be? I'm sure it's lined and everything, but still, it seemed questionable to me, that's all.
I know back in my skating days there would be no way I would be comfortable wearing that dress.
Am I the only one who thought Kexin Zhang had a wardrobe malfunction? Or is that really how the top of her dress is supposed to be? I'm sure it's lined and everything, but still, it seemed questionable to me, that's all.
I know back in my skating days there would be no way I would be comfortable wearing that dress.
she did lean in the air, but her takeoff was from a clear outside edge, that is textbook compared to lipnitskaya's clear inside edge. Her landing was also clean, and she had nice steps going in and more transitions right after it. I'm not calling for +3s, but i'm confident that the same jump would have gotten a goe of about +1.50 if her name had ended with -aya and if germany wasn't known by then not to make the final anyway.
Again, compare this to lipnitskaya's flutz, i don't see how a 1.40 goe advantage for lipnitskaya is defendable objectively. I have to admit i don't count "skating in russia" and "being european champion" as objective criteria.:
ita!
Like I said many times before, Julia does not flutz while in Russia, ok.
Kostner is the one completely ******! She lost 3 out of 3 times against this girl when both are clean. Would have never happened had the Olympics not been in Sochi.
If the Olympics was in Salzburg (one of my favorite places on Earth), Julia would be about 5-7 points behind Kostner all season long.
Kostner is the one completely ******! She lost 3 out of 3 times against this girl when both are clean. Would have never happened had the Olympics not been in Sochi.
If the Olympics was in Salzburg (one of my favorite places on Earth), Julia would be about 5-7 points behind Kostner all season long.
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- Aug 1, 2011
I enjoyed Osmond's performance and hope she continues to have a successful Olympics. We can use some lighthearted sass. Enough with James Bond, Carmen, and Uber Trauma Drama. 
I am thrilled for both Caro and Ashley, because both of them redeemed some ghosts from the past, each in her own way.
I'm not a big Yuna fan, but if Lipnihoweveryouspellhername wins it would be criminal. I would not be looking forward to women's figure skating being turned into The Sport of Prepubescent Jumping & Spinning Machines Where Your Career Is Washed Up As Soon As You Develop Hips. But YMMV of course.
I am thrilled for both Caro and Ashley, because both of them redeemed some ghosts from the past, each in her own way.
I'm not a big Yuna fan, but if Lipnihoweveryouspellhername wins it would be criminal. I would not be looking forward to women's figure skating being turned into The Sport of Prepubescent Jumping & Spinning Machines Where Your Career Is Washed Up As Soon As You Develop Hips. But YMMV of course.
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- Feb 1, 2010
Even better when you throw in McKayla's "Not Impressed" face!
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/C1Lg19wIMJFgJAD2DJ7DLA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2014-02-08/bad86290-90f4-11e3-8d64-09e5b0f4f03b_wagnermaroney.jpg
Lipnitskaia's 3lutz+3T is very good combination actually. Both of her jump has same height (+) has distance (+) has flow (+) good air position (+) and looks effortless (+) Judges can only reduce GOE for ''UNCLEAR EDGE TAKE-OFF F/Lz (no sign) -1'' Final GOE can be +1 and +2 with no e sign.
http://static.isu.org/media/108107/1790-sptc-sov_levdiff_2013-2014.pdf
http://static.isu.org/media/108107/1790-sptc-sov_levdiff_2013-2014.pdf
a star-name vs. a no-name (no offense to Weinzierl), skating has always been a sport where a name athlete will get better marks than a no-name athlete. That's how it's been and how it's always going to be, sometimes your favorite skater is going to benefit from it and sometimes they are going to be at a disadvantage from it.
I agree with the standings - I do think the home-ice boost was a little much, but 99.9% of the time there is a boost for the host-country's skaters, and the fact that this is the team event where (at least from my understanding of the event) the margin of victory doesn't really mean anything because the points given to your team are based on where you finished, not how much the judges scored you.
Found it funny that my mom, who doesn't know anything about figure skating, said halfway through Ashley's program that she looked "inconsistent". That being said, I'm impressed Ashley held it together considering the hard circumstances under which she skated, it wasn't an amazing performance but she got the job done when her team needed it. She'll certainly deserve her bronze medal.
She did lean in the air, but her takeoff was from a clear outside edge, that IS textbook compared to Lipnitskaya's clear inside edge. Her landing was also clean, and she had nice steps going in and more transitions right after it. I'm not calling for +3s, but I'm confident that the same jump would have gotten a GOE of about +1.50 if her name had ended with -aya and if Germany wasn't known by then not to make the final anyway.
Again, compare this to Lipnitskaya's Flutz, I don't see how a 1.40 GOE advantage for Lipnitskaya is defendable objectively. I have to admit I don't count "skating in Russia" and "being European Champion" as objective criteria.
You will know Julia was better than others, when you had to came low as 9th (out of 10) place skater to compare a mere lutz. Sorry I can't resist.
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- May 4, 2013
You will know Julia was better than others, when you had to came low as 9th (out of 10) place skater to compare a mere lutz. Sorry I can't resist.
What are you, 10?
In my first post, I also cited Kexin Zhang. And they were both examples to showcase the unwarranted +1.40 for Julia's Flutz.
So, beyond what placement does your logic exclude fair marks needing to be attributed? "Since Weinzierl only finished 9th, she didn't deserve fair GOEs for her Lutz." OK, that's a great opinion, you should consider applying to become an ISU judge.
I wasn't questioning Julia had a great program, but I'm irritated with the attribution of GOEs which seem to pave the way for some major weirdness going on in the individual event.
But by all means, keep spewing your generic "you dare criticize the marks she got, so you must be a hater!" posts. They are quite entertaining in their own way.
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- Aug 6, 2009
Who gives a hoot when everybody skates like they're half naked on the ice, no offence.
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- Nov 30, 2013
That is just your opinion, and no I'm not obsessed with her her winning. If the judges had scored Carolina higher in components and she won even by couple of points like Julia did, I would have been perfectly alright with that. If she had made a significant mistake (step-out, fall) and scored lower, perhaps in third behind Mao I would have been alright with that too.
What I am completely sick and tired of is people ragging on Julia because of her age. I can bet you anything that if Yuna, Mao, and Carolina had competed at this level at their first Olympics at 15-16 years everybody would not be criticizing them as much as Julia. Just take a step back from your opinion of her skating and realize that the INTERNATIONAL JUDGES have marked her. Not you, not someone you know, just judges from many different countries. Only one or two could be really biased in favor of Julia, also in that same vein you have to realize that one or two of the judges could be biased against her. Why does everyone say the judges got it wrong, there's a conspiracy, or she did not deserve this when they don't agree with the score. I may have thought that Skater A got marks that didn't seem fair, but when I looked at the protocols or really considered the skating I realized my view was perhaps biased and that the result was much fairer than I thought.
It really comes down to technical vs. components in this situation. Personally I could have seen it go either way and I would have accepted it. I think these particular judges were looking for higher difficulty (clean). If Mao had gone clean I'm sure her score would have been at least seven or eight points higher. According to other people Carolina's PCS should be way ahead of everyone else's I don't really agree, but then again I'm in the minority with several different international panels.
Everyone keeps saying Julia's jumps are too low and that should keep her from getting full marks. Almost as if they think by repeating it enough times they will be able to change the fact that height is only one of over half-a-dozen criteria for jump GOE. Her jumps are almost without exception, always fully rotated, and landed with good flow. Also she does not have balance issues and goes straight back into the choreo as if she had just done a single instead of a triple. In comparison, many other skaters with higher jumps have trouble fully rotating and landing them on their feet. How are these better (Although if they're landed then they get justified GOE) If good technique was solely defined by how often you land fully rotated jumps perfectly on one foot then Julia would be the best right behind Yuna (and probably a few other skaters who I have not seen). But jumps are not marked that way and that why I'm alright with Julia getting a range of 1's and 2's mostly for her jumps. People keep harping on her jump GOE but it is always lower than other skaters who complete the same jump, fully rotated and with a stable one-foot landing.
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- Nov 30, 2013
So what? She would have still won by 1 point.
The +GOEs for Julias jumps have been gradually going up all season. They can flutz and have wonky landings and even Yuna, Moa, and Adelina can gain only minimal advantage over her. Then one mistake or two, depending on the competitor, and Julia has already moved ahead because her mistakes and shortcomings are being ignored.
Russia did spend $51 billion dollars on the games. Perhaps some of that money found it's way into the skating competition, who will ever know.
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