2014 Rostelecom Cup Men's Short Program 11/14

[ice coverage]

So odd that he has always been known for his consistency and this year he just - isn't consistent. ...

Maybe not so very odd?? :think:

IIRC, Max Aaron's jumping had been quite consistent in the 2012-2013 season, contributing to his breakthrough win at Nats.
The same level of consistency eluded him in 2013-14, unfortunately.
I hope/believe that this season he has turned a corner and is headed toward renewed consistency.

Perhaps Jason's situation is somewhat analogous. In his case, his quantum leap forward came in 2013-14. A deviation from his consistency at this point does not mean that he cannot regain it. At least I hope not.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I love how Misha Ge gave pretty much exactly the same performance he did last week, but this time he gets scored 10 points higher.

 

[Mrs. P]

I love how Misha Ge gave pretty much exactly the same performance he did last week, but this time he gets scored 10 points higher.

The difference was all in TES. He would have scored higher than 69+ at COC but he got zero points for a spin (-4.21, based on what he got here). He also only got level 2 and 3 on his other elements, while he hit all level 4 elements here. And finally he got a UR on his combo, which he did not this time around.

Unless you're arguing he should have gotten level 4 on all his elements last week?

 

[Blades of Passion]

The calls should have been exactly the same at both events. There was no real difference in the elements. He did hold his difficult variations in the first half of the combination spin for slightly longer at the Cup of Russia, but they still hit the 2 revolution minimum at Cup of China.

It's terrible for the sport that you can have a 10 point difference in the SP alone for essentially the same performance at different events.

The exact level calls were actually wrong at both events for me. His catch-foot in the camel spin should not be given credit because it is not truly a difficult variation, so that should have been a Level 3 at both events. His intermediate position in the combination spin that attempts to be a pike position, but has an extremely bent leg, should not be given level credit either. So that element also should have been level 3 at both events.

He did get a 1 point increase in PCS at Cup of Russia as well, btw.

 

[Mao88]

MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 93.92 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
2. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) - 90.33 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
3. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 81.38 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
4. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 80.89 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
5. Misha GE (UZB) - 79.69 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
6. Max AARON (USA) - 77.09 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
7. Jason BROWN (USA) - 76.32 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
8. Artur GACHINSKI (RUS) - 74.13 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
9. Jeremy TEN (CAN) - 73.91 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
10. Stephen CARRIERE (USA) - 72.20 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
11. Ivan RIGHINI (ITA) - 69.74 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy
12. Moris KVITELASHVILI (RUS) - 62.24 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy

 

[Tavi...]

I, too, enjoy the artistic aspect of figure skating. But it is a sport, and great difficulty executed well should (usually) triumph lesser difficulty executed poorly. And for this particular competition, Voronov was the former and Jason (and to a lesser extent, Max) was the latter.

Also, I don't see what Max or even Jason has over Voronov on the artistic side for this particular competition. Jason is usually a wonderful performer, but it was pretty ragged out there today.The jumps and spins marred the program rather than accentuating it. Max is fast, but his edgework needs, well, work, and he seemed lost after the first quad. He got back on track with the axel, but his elements weren't done with great quality. Sergei was the only one who skated with conviction and looked spotless, while both American guys were messy overall.

Hmm, really? Jason's program had mistakes, for sure, and he seemed to lose energy about halfway through, but his line and movement are always beautiful, and those are things I associate with artistry. Voronov hit all his elements very well, but to me that isn't enough for artistry. His opening movements were not well-timed with the music, his posture is poor, and his footwork & other movements, while decisive, lack clarity. I guess i disagree that Sergei was spotless unless by that you mean error free - for me he could improve in many areas. I think it really just depends on what you value.

 

[Sabrina]

What happens, I could watch all the skaters except for nr 12 Moris Kvitelashvili where ALL the links had the same message: The video is not available in your country 3 and all 3

 

[Tavi...]

I understand, and I realize that not everyone will like Jason's program as a program. I grew up on Philadelphia R&B, so I cannot claim to be an expert on Chicago blues. I think I was trying to say what Mrs. P said much better: love it or not, it is horribly unfair to reduce Jason's performance to smiles and suspenders. He skated poorly today and got scores to match.

And I may be too hard on Voronov as a performer; maybe to some he is very embodiment of the devil fiddling. I just didn't see it.

Wow, I go away for four hours and have to read through five screens:dance:

Gotcha - and actually I agree with you about Voronov. He was technically excellent but for me not otherwise interesting. Still, I think the placements were pretty fair.

 

[msteach3]

Gotcha - and actually I agree with you about Voronov. He was technically excellent but for me not otherwise interesting. Still, I think the placements were pretty fair.

Javi with his facial hair and upbeat, edgy program is what figure skating needs to attract new and younger fans. If more teens were exposed to his skating there would be no talk of this sport "dying." Although Veronov skated brilliantly, his classical program and feathery costume might turn off younger viewers for a variety of reasons. I can't speak for Russian fans where classical music still seems to reign, but in the US Javi and his Black Betty would get plenty of second looks.

 

[Poodlepal]

Just saw some of the videos and read some of the comments, many of which seemed over-the-top to me.

First of all, this is a sport. It should mainly be judged on quads, footwork, etc. The only time anything should be judged by "sincerity" is when the Great Pumpkin comes to judge the most sincere pumpkin patch.

Jason: hardly a disastrous performance. He fell on one of his elements, landed all the others. I remember many, many other men who would fall once or twice but would still be in medal contention because "it's not all about the falls." Had he been more famous, he'd have at least several more points, I'm sure. He's playing a smarmy blues character in this piece--you can tell by the way he keeps brushing his hair throughout the performance. He's like a gambler fixing his hair before playing cards in a smoky bar . If he's smarmy in real life, well, he's a teenager. i teach at a gifted high school and I see smarm all day. A kid with talent has very high self-esteem at this age.

Max is like a high school jock dancing around in his prom tux after he takes his tie off. Sergey was like a vulture flying over macabre dancing or dansing people at a graveyard and Takahito was like a figure skater who decided to do a tango piece this year. I didn't rewatch Javier's, I guess he's like Brown Betty, whoever she is.

Max: landed everything, maybe with some -GOE. Also not a horrible performance. He does have a "dry" section in his program though, where he mostly does crossovers, which should be fixed. The program suits his personality, it has potential. It's a shame his little mistakes put him in 6th, but he has a shot at a medal, at least.

Sergey: He was very good. What is everyone complaining about? he landed everything, he was fast, he wore an outfit worthy of Alexei Urmanov, the music suited him. he looked fine to me.

Taka: Very boring program, in my opinion. Sick of tangos with accordians, phantom and carmen. Program wise, I liked it the least, but he skated it well.

 

[silverfoxes]

Javi with his facial hair and upbeat, edgy program is what figure skating needs to attract new and younger fans. If more teens were exposed to his skating there would be no talk of this sport "dying." Although Veronov skated brilliantly, his classical program and feathery costume might turn off younger viewers for a variety of reasons. I can't speak for Russian fans where classical music still seems to reign, but in the US Javi and his Black Betty would get plenty of second looks.

Sergei's free program isn't classical or anything close to it...it's a rock/beatbox/R&B medley. Javi's free program is opera. Something for everyone...

 

[Icey]

Also, I don't consider the error he had today a reflection that he hasn't mastered his triples. He probably has done that 3F-3T combo perfectly in the past (in fact, it's a combo he doesn't really mess up on). And he did a adequate 3A today.

I don't think any of us are expressing concern about his having mastered his triples based on this one event.
6 underrotations and 8 negative goes for his jumps in this years 3 competitions don't encourage one to believe he has "mastered" his triples. Lest my critiques lead one to think I don't like him or against him, that is not true. I'm just concerned about the direction in which he is headed and the approach behind it.

 

[wordsworthgirl]

Javi with his facial hair and upbeat, edgy program is what figure skating needs to attract new and younger fans. If more teens were exposed to his skating there would be no talk of this sport "dying." Although Veronov skated brilliantly, his classical program and feathery costume might turn off younger viewers for a variety of reasons. I can't speak for Russian fans where classical music still seems to reign, but in the US Javi and his Black Betty would get plenty of second looks.

Could not agree more about Javi being good for the sport as far as attracting fans goes. I have seen this firsthand as my stepdaughter and husband both stopped in their tracks to watch his short program- my stepdaughter soon gaga over the "gorgeous, cute, hot guy," my husband drawn in and impressed by the edgy program and rock music.

 

[Mao88]

MEN'S SHORT PROGRAM - VIDEOS & RESULT - updated

1. Javier FERNANDEZ (ESP) - 93.92 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
2. Sergei VORONOV (RUS) - 90.33 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
3. Takahiko KOZUKA (JPN) - 81.38 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
4. Michal BREZINA (CZE) - 80.89 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
5. Misha GE (UZB) - 79.69 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
6. Max AARON (USA) - 77.09 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
7. Jason BROWN (USA) - 76.32 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
8. Artur GACHINSKI (RUS) - 74.13 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy, 5th Copy
9. Jeremy TEN (CAN) - 73.91 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
10. Stephen CARRIERE (USA) - 72.20 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
11. Ivan RIGHINI (ITA) - 69.74 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy
12. Moris KVITELASHVILI (RUS) - 62.24 Short Program, 2nd Copy, 3rd Copy, 4th Copy

 

[Interspectator]

-Just watched the Japan Broadcast!
I'm over the moon happy for Javi.
I was getting really worried for him because of his knee injury, but he did GREAT.
I also enjoyed, Vornov, Kozuka (yippeee!), Brezina, Misha and Jason. Actually, most of the guys did very well in their SP's today.
Performance-wise, this has been a great event so far.

Even Max has improved noticeably from his first GP event. I thought choreography was a bit empty for a song like 'Footloose' but he definitely put more energy in the right places this time. It still could use some more 'dancy' bits JMO.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't think any of us are expressing concern about his having mastered his triples based on this one event.
6 underrotations and 8 negative goes for his jumps in this years 3 competitions don't encourage one to believe he has "mastered" his triples. Lest my critiques lead one to think I don't like him or against him, that is not true. I'm just concerned about the direction in which he is headed and the approach behind it.

He did the 3f-3t clean 2/3 short programs this seasons. Same with the 3A. The lutz has been clean at all three. As I noted earlier prior to SA, he has 6/6 clean SPs. That's six clean 3As, 3f-3ts and 3zs.

In the FS the UR is mainly on 3A 3/4 were UR. The rest: 3S, 3T and 3Z once, at Nebelhorn. None of them were deemed UR at SA. The 3f-3t has been ratified at both Nebelhorn and SA, though negative -goe there.

4/6 of your URs mention came during ONE SEGMENT of one competition (Nebelhorn). The other two came over two competitions, so one per competition. While it would be great to have ZERO URs, two (even three if you want to argue the 3A should have been < at SA SP) over 14 jump passes is not worth losing sleep over.

as for -GOE, half of them were below -1.00 which means that some judges gave it a ZERO GOE. OF course you want +GOE, but not having +GOE does not indicate a lack of mastery, just means the element wasn't executed well.

This has played out before. In the 2012 JGP, he had edge calls on ALL his lutzes AND 3 URs in the FS and lost to TES point getting 15-year-old (Boyang Jin). People hemed and hawed that Jason wouldn't get it together and that if he couldn't master his lutz and under rotations, there was no way he was going to make any progress on the 3A. By the end of the season, he had the 3A and did three clean ones at junior worlds, and scoring the highest FS ever (154+) for a junior man which still stands today (though he still lost to Josh Farris overall due to an error in the SP in the combo, but not the 3A).

Also, Long Program is still to come.

 

[Scovies]

6 underrotations and 8 negative goes for his jumps in this years 3 competitions don't encourage one to believe he has "mastered" his triples.

Can you really point to any of his triples (besides the axel) and say he hasn't mastered them?

Half of those URs came on his 3A. I'm not pretending that an unreliable 3A isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, but I really don't think any of his other jumps are an issue for him.

Edit: jinx, Mrs. P!

 

[Mrs. P]

Can you really point to any of his triples (besides the axel) and say he hasn't mastered them?

Half of those URs came on his 3A. I'm not pretending that an unreliable 3A isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, but I really don't think any of his other jumps are an issue for him.

Edit: jinx, Mrs. P!

Please buy me a coke.

Even with the 3A, he is inconsistent at worst. He is capable of pulling of beautiful 3As with +GOEs.

Exhibit A: SIX FREAKING SHORT PROGRAMS IN A ROW.

Nebelhorn 2013: 0.86
Skate America 2013: 1.14
Trophee Eric Bompard 2013: 1.14
Nationals 2014: 0.29
Olympics 2014 0.86
Nebelhorn 2014: 0.67

Exhibit B: This short program being not his best, he still pulled of a 3A and got 0.43 on it So statistically, He has done the 3A in the SP 7 out of 8 programs with postive +GOE in the SP. That's a 87.5 percent hit rate. The fall at SA (and UR, arguably) is the only time the jump failed on him.

For some reason the 3A is far less consistent in the FS. This season he is 3/4 for UR so far, though that one time it was ratified, it got +1.00 GOE. That tells me it's a mental issue, not a that he can't do a jump issue. It doesn't make sense for him to hit hte jump consistently in one segment then totally fail in a different segment. It's something he still has to work out, but he can do the jump and earn decent GOE on it (though not as high as some, obviously).

 

[Wo|flax]

Jason-The way everyone was talking I expected it to be awful XD It wasn't great by any means but this still leaves room for me to think Nats will be good

Misha has really improved his speed this off season. He's on the up and up I liked him as person but I didn't think he'd actually get anywhere but he's going! Just don't Zayak tomorrow; resist the curse.

Artur: much better performance than SA. listen I think he can still do it (pls)(I don't mean at this competition but) I love him so; half the time I don't even know why, there's something about him.

Takahiko: getting better @Meioma I think its because he sometimes lacks power/speed compared to say Patrick. He's still getting lowballed though; 7.9 I mean what.

Stephen:bored me a bit this time

Brezina:back in fourth all is right with the world

Voronov: :yay:

Javier: Everyone loves this program; I like but I don't love I feel like I'm missing out Anyway thoroughly enjoyable and Javi's back on form; pls don't bomb tomorrow thanks; (resist the curse also pls)

 

[Mrs. P]

Jason-The way everyone was talking I expected it to be awful XD It wasn't great by any means but this still leaves room for me to think Nats will be good

Awful for him, I guess! As I mention many pages ago, it was his worst SP score ever since he became a senior. And he hasn't been 7th or lower after a SP in a while (2013 Nationals) and in a JGP/GP event, he has never been that low in the rankings after the SP, i.e. being out of the final group.

The fact Kori made a point of mentioning it was an "imperfect skate" tells me they were not happy with the result. (though she wasn't scolding Jason or anything, just pointing it was not the best of moments).