2015 World Team Trophy Mens SP Apr 16

[matmuh]

Oh yeah, and still waiting for Hanyu to skate two clean performances in one event. With that overly high score in the sp and Hanyu at less than his best, the rest of the field apparently has to call it a day. The same as with Chan, over-scoring for quad revolutions doesn't help the skater or the sport. Yes, Hanyu has superb talent, but he needs to put it together with clean performances. His moments here and there of brilliant jumping and smooth flow over the ice should not camouflage the fact that he's not really the best fully developed stylist with top notch presentation skills. He's still learning in that respect.

as i said before i agree he was overscored on PCS wise but he isnt the kind of person who takes thing for granted and take the easy way, its the opposite, he constantly trying to improve every aspect of his skating whether is the program content or pcs, you can see form the videos that he was really upset and frustrated because of his mistakes and i dont think he cares about his score as much as delivering program with mistakes

 

[YesWay]

Yes, Hanyu has superb talent, but he needs to put it together with clean performances. His moments here and there of brilliant jumping and smooth flow over the ice should not camouflage the fact that he's not really the best fully developed stylist with top notch presentation skills. He's still learning in that respect.

"Moments of brilliant jumping and smooth flow" LOL

You've got it the wrong way around. When he is not severely injured, he does entire programs of brilliant jumping and smooth flow, and a whole lot more besides... with just a few "moments" where he lapses.

And yes he's still learning and progressing, but even now - few can match his presentation.

 

[Rissa]

He needs to change costume at first. This one shows too much athelticism visually and not fill the music. Needs more flow and speed trough choreo and steps. We will see next season

Yes, this. The stark line between his torso and legs makes him look disproportionate.

I like the choreography of the new program and Max goes with the music pretty well but I find him supremely unconvincing. Probably because I watched Denis Ten all season and have some comparison as to how performing to this sort of music should look like. That element when he goes down on one knee was so terribly unfinished that it looked funny. But then I know I'm criticizing a new program, so Max will hopefully improve it.

 

[daphenaxa]

Your other baby Yuzu should not be sad. Wow. He still would have been over 90 with another fall. This is absolutely killing the sport. There have been complaints about Carolina and Patrick and even Megan and Eric but as much as Yuzu is adorable his skating skills are not of the extraordinary level of Lambiel, Buttle or Chan and his programs are not the masterpieces of Kwan Torill and Dean or G and G; he is one step down which is way ahead of the rest. But how can we rationalize such generous marks. this is pretty scandalous. His performance level wasn't up to his best with the big mistake. Most skaters are a bit down other than maybe Gracie and Weaver and Poje. Really disappointing to see such a ridiculous score. Brown and Han should have been closer. Very sad indeed.

? That's such a bizarre answer. Hanyu wasn't sad about the scores. He was sad because he didn't manage to do the error free program that he craved all season.
Also don't be that pressed. He was overscored in PE ok. I agree with the rest of the scores. I actually think he is kinda on par with Chan for skating skills, and he is definitely in front of him for anything touching to musicality and interpretation!
Also i never liked Kwan and i thing G&G are overrated a bit, so i guess we don't have the same definition on masterpieces.

 

[Rissa]

Your other baby Yuzu should not be sad. Wow. He still would have been over 90 with another fall. This is absolutely killing the sport. There have been complaints about Carolina and Patrick and even Megan and Eric but as much as Yuzu is adorable his skating skills are not of the extraordinary level of Lambiel, Buttle or Chan and his programs are not the masterpieces of Kwan Torill and Dean or G and G; he is one step down which is way ahead of the rest. But how can we rationalize such generous marks. this is pretty scandalous. His performance level wasn't up to his best with the big mistake. Most skaters are a bit down other than maybe Gracie and Weaver and Poje. Really disappointing to see such a ridiculous score. Brown and Han should have been closer. Very sad indeed.

I feel you. Music isn't what it used to be either. And Brad Pitt isn't half the actor Clark Gable was. Why even bother.

 

[YesWay]

He still would have been over 90 with another fall. This is absolutely killing the sport. There have been complaints about Carolina and Patrick and even Megan and Eric but as much as Yuzu is adorable his skating skills are not of the extraordinary level of Lambiel, Buttle or Chan and his programs are not the masterpieces of Kwan Torill and Dean or G and G; he is one step down which is way ahead of the rest. But how can we rationalize such generous marks. this is pretty scandalous. His performance level wasn't up to his best with the big mistake. Most skaters are a bit down other than maybe Gracie and Weaver and Poje. Really disappointing to see such a ridiculous score. Brown and Han should have been closer. Very sad indeed.

So much comedy and melodrama in one post LOL

There have been several programs on Japanese TV analysing Hanyu's jumps and skating skills in great detail. I wish they would translate those into other languages and put them on youtube or something. Then maybe the anti-Hanyu bandwagon wouldn't post so much nonsense about "overscoring", "skating skill", "scandal", blah blah blah.

 

[Art&Sport]

"Moments of brilliant jumping and smooth flow" LOL

You've got it the wrong way around. When he is not severely injured, he does entire programs of brilliant jumping and smooth flow, and a whole lot more besides... with just a few "moments" where he lapses.

And yes he's still learning and progressing, but even now - few can match his presentation.

Hanyu is not a fully developed skater artistically -- he doesn't have great depth of presentation. The smooth flow and wonderful jumps with good choreo make it seem so. I'm jaw-dropped when his jumps are on, but aargh when he fails to skate an otherwise brilliant technical program completely clean. He should not be getting such high scores just because he's a brilliant tech skater with artistic potential, but can never fully deliver. When has Hanyu ever skated two clean programs in one competition? Hardly ever, not even when he's been fairly healthy. I know he has asthma, so kudos for his athleticism and heart. I just hate to see some skaters win before the comp is over, when they don't fully deliver. There should be a rule to give extra bonus points for clean performances, and then see how the skaters might respond.

All the over-scoring on PCS generally for skaters who have good tech but poor presentation (Kovtun, Voronov, e.g.) is ridiculous.

 

[OS]

Hanyu is not a fully developed skater artistically -- he doesn't have great depth of presentation. The smooth flow and wonderful jumps with good choreo make it seem so. I'm jaw-dropped when his jumps are on, but aargh when he fails to skate an otherwise brilliant technical program completely clean. He should not be getting such high scores just because he's a brilliant tech skater with artistic potential, but can never fully deliver. When has Hanyu ever skated two clean programs in one competition? Hardly ever, not even when he's been fairly healthy. I know he has asthma, so kudos for his athleticism and heart. I just hate to see some skaters win before the comp is over, when they don't fully deliver. There should be a rule to give extra bonus points for clean performances, and then see how the skaters might respond.

All the over-scoring on PCS generally for skaters who have good tech but poor presentation (Kovtun, Voronov, e.g.) is ridiculous.

Hanyu is better than Jason Brown though ;P
But let's face it, who REALLY have great depth of presentation these days? It is all about faking it. These are young crop of skaters slowly coming to their own, including Gracie and Jason.

 

[YesWay]

He should not be getting such high scores just because he's a brilliant tech skater with artistic potential, but can never fully deliver. When has Hanyu ever skated two clean programs in one competition? Hardly ever, not even when he's been fairly healthy.

But that isn't why he gets such high scores...!

There is no "automatic lose", if a performance is not clean!
Skaters get awarded points for doing stuff well. And Hanyu does most stuff exceptionally well.
Skaters get penalties for mistakes. Hanyu same as everyone else - but the rewards he gets for doing stuff well, overwhelms his penalties.

By and large if there's a problem, I don't think it's the judging - it's the rules (eg. scaling of rewards/penalties)
ISU is encouraging skaters to attempt difficult jumps etc, by making the potential rewards bigger than the risk/penalty.
That's the ISU "game", and skaters like Hanyu have learned to play that game to their advantage.
There's nothing unfair about it - the same rules apply to everyone.

Sure, there are times that panels could be called "generous" or "harsh". But the way I see it - so called "overscoring" is rare, and even more rare when it's so bad you could call it "scandalous". More often, it's the correct application of the rules, to a skater (and their coach!) that not only has the skating skills - but also knows how to play the game.

 

[Mathman]

Thank you, MM . Never knew that. Is A-ha-ran a Hebrew word -- which means something in English?

According to Wikipedia , it probably means something like "exalted," or "high mountain." But it also might derive from dynastic Egyptian "warrior lion."

The Hebrew name is traditionally rendered in English as AHARON. Aaron (Aharon) was the older brother of Moses and according to the Bible was chosen by God as High Priest of the Israelites. The Kohanim or priestly caste in the Temple descended from Aaron. To this day, many of those named Cohen, Cohn, etc., are believed to be descendants of Aaron and these priests.

Thanks for the correction and information. I have wondered if Sasha Cohen felt any particular connection to the name. (As far as I know Sasha is not observant.)

 

[deedee1]

I've managed to watch the recorded all 12 men from Ponsart to Yuzuru on big TV screen, finally. What a score to Max and Florent... :sarcasm: Fully rotated quad and no fall. Just give them 80 at least, judges! Especially at such a half-joke competition. Florent's presentation was superb I thought. His skating skills has improved a lot this season. Would be no problem to me 85 for Max, if a skater with only triples could get 85, or a skater with a fall could score well over 90.