2016-2017 Grand Prix selections

[TGee]

I agree TGee - when I look at some of the B events and see skaters from other countries there and no one from Canada you have to ask why! I think this is also why some of the American Ladies can all of a sudden show up at a GP event and win medals - because they are known to the judges and have learned to compete in biggest events.
But in regards to Kevin I think Skate Canada really sort of gave up on him a couple years ago when he was having boot problems. And unfortunately once SC gives up on you - you are pretty much done. Look at how fast and far Leung dropped!

topic: Probably should continue this on the State of Canadian Figure Skating thread. Lots of good things happening at Skate Canada, but in this area, a number of us have significant concerns/critiques.

You may be correct that Skate Canada talent and high performance tracking had dropped Kevin from the radar, but this seems to be a broader issue.

Keegan Messing only got one Challenger, and boot lace incident not withstanding, everything in his outing at Autumn Classic said he deserved another. And the story for juniors and other seniors is the same.

The USFSA has figured out that to be competitive, they need to make the investment to get their skaters to as many ISU events as possible, despite the incredible resource burden of taking teams to Europe. From what I understand, Skate Canada is not only not maximizing entry opportunities, for the JPG they leave a significant portion of the costs to the skaters and their families.

 

[chuckm]

With his injuries and missed events he didn't have any results to put him on a SB list.

Kevin was on the SB list, but way down in #62, from 4CC 2016. The list of substitutes for withdrawals this season never got down that far. And he didn't win the Canadian Challenger Event (although Challenge winners no longer go to the top of the substitute list).

 

[Crossover]

Ryuju Hino is now in for NHK Trophy's host pick. It's about time!

http://static.isu.org/media/1001/gp_men_16-11-11.pdf

When Sota was pulled out from the rooster for injury, I wondered why Ryuju was not named as the substitute there already. I've had a soft spot for him as he was a good skater during juniors. Takaka, a peer of Ryuju made his GP debut last season while he was stuck with B-events.

I also wanted to Kevin to get another GP assignment, but now the prospect is not bright at the moment.

 

[TGee]

Ryuju Hino is now in for NHK Trophy's host pick. It's about time!

http://static.isu.org/media/1001/gp_men_16-11-11.pdf

When Sota was pulled out from the rooster for injury, I wondered why Ryuju was not named as the substitute there already. I've had a soft spot for him as he was a good skater during juniors. Takaka, a peer of Ryuju made his GP debut last season while he was stuck with B-events.

I also wanted to Kevin to get another GP assignment, but now the prospect is not bright at the moment.

Sharing Mango's question mark about the lack of replacement for Murakami at the Cup of China. There are 3 host picks, and there would have been time to replace Murakami if it had been moved on immediately.

But at this point it looks as though there will just be 11 men.....still feel it is a same to go with less than a full field...

 

[SarahSynchro]

If Kevin doesn't get another assignment I at least hope Skate Canada will send him to a senior B before nationals for more experience this year.

Heck, I'd even suggest sending him to Challenge like they did last year.

 

[TGee]

If Kevin doesn't get another assignment I at least hope Skate Canada will send him to a senior B before nationals for more experience this year.

Heck, I'd even suggest sending him to Challenge like they did last year.

The entries for the remaining Challenger senior Bs are long since closed, and there aren't really other opportunities before nationals other than Challenge (domestic qualifier for nationals, but national team members like Kevin have a bye).

As I said earlier this thread, disappointing that Skate Canada is the hold out among the big federations in terms of passing on opportunities for maximizing experience at ISU international competitions.

 

[SarahSynchro]

Oh, I didn't realize that the challenger series would all be closed to entry at this point, thank you for clearing that up.

Are there any other non challenger series senior B's between now and nationals?

Gabby went to challenge last year even though she was on the national team. Come to think of it, Kaetlyn also went to challenge during the Olympic season after having to withdraw from her GP events due to an injury - to get some competitive experience before nationals. So it's a commonly used tactic and I think Kevin would be wise to get his programs out there one more time before nationals if there are no other senior B-level options.

 

[tulosai]

What I would suggest is that the ISU really enforces filling all the spots (unless there is a withdrawal at the last minute).... and to do so, there are a few things that could be implanted...

2)A fine for skaters who do not withdraw within 10 days. Honestly, most of them know they won't be ready and sometimes federations, from the withdrawing skaters, whether they are hosting or not, just don't want to give a chance to anyone else.... late withdrawals are too frequent.

I would support this idea with a little tweaking, as I think there should be some way or opportunity to prove that the injury occurred after this period and avoid the fine (I mean gosh, occasionally skaters WD at a competition once they are already there due to unexpected illness or injury, I think that's a huge bummer for those skaters and what a slap in the face for them to be fined on top of it, and the same logic would apply if they genuinely sustained an injury or major illness only a few days before the competition). However, I agree that many if not most late withdrawals are of skaters that knew full well they were injured and could not skate 10 days out, and this behavior has to be discouraged.

 

[4everchan]

agreed

I would support this idea with a little tweaking, as I think there should be some way or opportunity to prove that the injury occurred after this period and avoid the fine (I mean gosh, occasionally skaters WD at a competition once they are already there due to unexpected illness or injury, I think that's a huge bummer for those skaters and what a slap in the face for them to be fined on top of it, and the same logic would apply if they genuinely sustained an injury or major illness only a few days before the competition). However, I agree that many if not most late withdrawals are of skaters that knew full well they were injured and could not skate 10 days out, and this behavior has to be discouraged.

 

[chuckm]

Skaters do not have a relationship with the ISU, only their federations do. The skater may have notified the federation that they'd be unable to skate, but the federation hasn't notified the ISU in due time. The ISU can't fine the skater, only the federation, but the federation can 'claim' it didn't know the skater wasn't able to skate. Buckpassing is all too common. Lots of luck trying to collect a fine.

 

[cathlen]

Moore-Towers/Marinaro no longer listed for NHK Trophy: http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028758.htm It's a short notice, so probably won't be replaced. So underwhelming for Pairs this season... If S/M WD from GPF too...

 

[tulosai]

Moore-Towers/Marinaro no longer listed for NHK Trophy: http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028758.htm It's a short notice, so probably won't be replaced. So underwhelming for Pairs this season... If S/M WD from GPF too...

What is their problem? Are the injured? I don't remember...

 

[apgold]

What is their problem? Are the injured? I don't remember...

KMT had a concussion, from which she is still recovering.

 

[chuckm]

What I would suggest is that the ISU really enforces filling all the spots (unless there is a withdrawal at the last minute).... and to do so, there are a few things that could be implanted.

1)A list of potential substitute ranked. To this list could be added any winner of a medal who has one spot only. Perhaps, this list should be observed by ranking. The only way a host country would not follow world rankings would be if they are willing to give their host pick to another nation's skater?
2)A fine for skaters who do not withdraw within 10 days. Honestly, most of them know they won't be ready and sometimes federations, from the withdrawing skaters, whether they are hosting or not, just don't want to give a chance to anyone else.... late withdrawals are too frequent.
3)An obligation to fill in the spot until 5 days (not 15) before an event. As we know, skaters are training already, and most of them have competed so they do needa bit of time to get to an event but it's not like they fly weeks in advance either. 5 days is sufficient when no VISAs are required.... and perhaps it should be done quicker or coming with the opportunity to get an expedited Visa for skaters needing them.

Anyways, these rules need tweaking... but already it would entice injured skaters to withdraw with enough time to invite someone else. Force hosts to fill their spots...

I'd guess you're not in favor of fining Skate Canada for not withdrawing MOORE-TOWERS / MARINARO sooner than one week before the competition.

Seems she's not up to competing at NHK, but Canadian Challenge 5 days later is OK. :sarcasm:

 

[qwerty]

I'd guess you're not in favor of fining Skate Canada for not withdrawing MOORE-TOWERS / MARINARO sooner than one week before the competition.

Seems she's not up to competing at NHK, but Canadian Challenge 5 days later is OK. :sarcasm:

I believe it's the air travel that is not safe for her current concussion recovery.

 

[TGee]

I believe it's the air travel that is not safe for her current concussion recovery.

True, but one does wonder why the medical practioner (who is required by Skate Canada to provide a return to play certificate) would not also have had to sign off on the travel or not in a timely way.

There may may need to be further refinement of the protocol. From what I understand, physicians are loathe to take accountability for saying someone can't do something. The "return to play" requirement after an earlier withdrawal from competition with a medical certificate for concussion is intended to put the onus instead on the physician to ensure the athlete is safe to return to competition. Given many sports involve travel to competitions, you'd hope that was worked into the return to play clearance sign off protocol...

 

[TGee]

Moore-Towers/Marinaro no longer listed for NHK Trophy: http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat00028758.htm It's a short notice, so probably won't be replaced. So underwhelming for Pairs this season... If S/M WD from GPF too...

Really feel Skate Canada should have pressed for them to get a "go / no go" on the travel earlier from the medical practitioner responsible.

And I do agree that a fine for late cancellations without adequate reason would focus the federations and the skaters on making the calls in reasonable time where possible.

 

[4everchan]

meh... there are always ways to avoid such pettiness... skaters could have to notify both their feds and the ISU. end of story.

Skaters do not have a relationship with the ISU, only their federations do. The skater may have notified the federation that they'd be unable to skate, but the federation hasn't notified the ISU in due time. The ISU can't fine the skater, only the federation, but the federation can 'claim' it didn't know the skater wasn't able to skate. Buckpassing is all too common. Lots of luck trying to collect a fine.

 

[4everchan]

I suggested something that could prevent such situations... so why would I be against my own suggestion? Right now, nobody is officially in the wrong as there are no rules about when skaters have to withdraw...

Also, as you perhaps know, there's a difference, when you are recovering from a concussion with air travel and road travel... which could explain why MTM2.0 could compete in Canada but not in Japan.

I'd guess you're not in favor of fining Skate Canada for not withdrawing MOORE-TOWERS / MARINARO sooner than one week before the competition.

Seems she's not up to competing at NHK, but Canadian Challenge 5 days later is OK. :sarcasm:

 

[4everchan]

I believe it's the air travel that is not safe for her current concussion recovery.

and from KMT's facebook as reported by Sarahsynchro

"Though there have been many frustrating aspects to this injury, pulling out of NHK Trophy is certainly the most difficult one. Japan is among my very favourite places to compete and also travel to in general. I really hope to be able to go back soon!!
I am progressing extremely well and though we are back training part time, my brain is not ready for a long travel across the world. We are, however, super excited to compete at Skate Canada Challenge in a couple weeks!! It's been a long time coming! Thanks for the love!"