2016 Team Challenge Cup - Gen Info/Pre-chat

[cathlen]

Technically, only Yuzu and Javier declined the invitation which is send out based on World Ranking.

Plus North Korea pairs team. But Javi's top skater from Europe and Yuzu is top skater from Asia so that leaves North America without declining, just as I've written. But yeah, could be worse

 

[shyne]

Plus North Korea pairs team. But Javi's top skater from Europe and Yuzu is top skater from Asia so that leaves North America without declining, just as I've written. But yeah, could be worse

You are right.
The North Korean pair is not even on the Worlds 2016 entry list. They met the MTS. I suspect VISA issues or North Korea is against them competing in US.

 

[sabinfire]

And now we know why Rika was the only Japanese skater left to be nominated.

The only other potential nominee was Shoma, but he was invited based on ISU World Standings, meaning that Yuzuru declined.

Satoko was invited based on ISU World Standings. And we knew days ago that Mao has the schedule conflict of Lambiel's ice show.

You mean, Rika is the only Japanese skater left who wants to do TCC. I don't buy 'scheduling conflict' as the reason. No skater will prioritize an ice show over a large international competition, if they really wanted to compete there. How long have we known the dates of TCC and that there would be a fan vote? I find it hard to believe that Mao Asada & Patrick Chan didn't believe they would be included, and wouldn't likely win a fan vote.

If they still decided last year to plan on doing an ice show during TCC, they simply had no desire to go to this event.

When was the last time a skater booked an ice show during the week of Worlds, then later found themselves named to the World team, and they said, "Darn, scheduling conflict... I can't go to Worlds"?

You can't have more than 2 representers in each field from the same country. Rating also counts a lot too.

You can have any number of skaters from any combination of countries selected for nomination in the fan vote, "up to five" (but seems to be limited at three in application). The USA has Jason Brown & Gracie Gold already named, yet they still have 4 additional nominees for voting: Wagner, Edmunds, Rippon, Aaron. Japan has only 1. Your point?

 

[ice coverage]

You mean, Rika is the only Japanese skater left who wants to do TCC. ...

Yes.
And the previously announced rules made clear that skaters are free to decline invitations to TCC. And unlike the WTT rules, the TCC rules had no language regarding any disincentives from the ISU for non-participation.

Given that Patrick and Mao already are known to have schedule conflicts, my opinion is that it is better that they are not nominated for fan voting.
The scenario that would make me far unhappier as a fan: Patrick and Mao were nominated; I voted for them instead of other skaters that I like almost as much; they won the fan vote, but declined their invitations to TCC.

If your point is that the first year ever of TCC does not have stature of the ISU World Championships, I think most of us already knew that.

Some of us are fine with TCC being a different kind of comp from Worlds. No cause for outrage, IMO. YMMV.

 

[sabinfire]

Yes.
And the previously announced rules made clear that skaters are free to decline invitations to TCC. And unlike the WTT rules, the TCC rules had no language regarding any disincentives from the ISU for non-participation.

Given that Patrick and Mao already are known to have schedule conflicts, my opinion is that it is better that they are not nominated for fan voting.
The scenario that would make me far unhappier as a fan: Patrick and Mao were nominated; I voted for them instead of other skaters that I like almost as much; they won the fan vote, but declined their invitations to TCC.

Also in the previously announced rules, there is no mention of an accept/decline process for skaters to be included for the fan vote.

All I can find regarding skater selection in the vote:

"The top lady and man vote getter from each team will be invited and have 3 business days to accept. If the top vote getter declines the invitation, then the next top vote getter will be invited. Invitations will continue in the same manner..."

Is there a formal selection process before a skater is actually invited? Do they ask all the skaters included in the fan vote whether they accept or decline the nomination? Then, if they win the vote, they are asked again if they accept or decline the invitation and have 3 days to decide if they want to go? Is that how it works?

 

[sabinfire]

If your point is that the first year ever of TCC does not have stature of the ISU World Championships, I think most of us already knew that.

Worlds was just my example for illustration. My actual point is: TCC doesn't even have the stature of an ice show, to some of the top skaters in the field today.

 

[Mathman]

Worlds was just my example for illustration. My actual point is: TCC doesn't even have the stature of an ice show, to some of the top skaters in the field today.

And?

 

[sabinfire]

Well, I don't care much for ice shows generally. Some people do. For an ISU competition, should be considered more.

This is a similar case with 4CC. If skaters aren't taking the event seriously, it's hard for me to become invested as a fan. If this doesn't bother you, you're lucky. I wish it didn't matter to me and I could get just as excited about TCC as I am with Worlds.

 

[LadyB]

Vote early, vote often! Like in the good old General Election Days
It feels a bit like the ISU is taking the mick, but if they want it that way.... I voted twice for Maks Kovtun. I know, his programme this season is rubbish, but I just love the guy. Rika Honga, Liam Firus, Alaine Chartrand and Boyang Jin were my other faves. Oh yes, I voted once for Elena and once for Zhenija. Still got one option for later. It will be interesting how the vote changes over the weeks, when people discover they can go for it multiple times.
Ah, just heard that Shizuka Arakawa is team captain.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Well, I don't care much for ice shows generally. Some people do. For an ISU competition, should be considered more.

This is a similar case with 4CC. If skaters aren't taking the event seriously, it's hard for me to become invested as a fan. If this doesn't bother you, you're lucky. I wish it didn't matter to me and I could get just as excited about TCC as I am with Worlds.

I am sure the flip side is that if the fans don't care it is hard for the skaters to put it as a priority. Some may feel they can "give back" to the fans better at a show... and in Japan where they are big sellers, I can understand the sentiment.

TCC is a new event. New events have to start somewhere, so we have a chicken and the egg issue. TCC feels a bit like a live dress rehearsal at this point... i don't think that was intended, but things have not gone smoothly. For now I am giving them the benefit of the doubt that they will learn from this event and have it a bit more smooth in the future.

I like the idea of team comps in general (but yes they should be competitions), so I don't mind a few different comps experimenting with format.... I would probably like it better if WTT and TCC were the same format, and even the Olympics team event, but for now... well im just hoping they find the "right" format.

We can't really expect skaters to take "lesser" events like 4CC seriously when we as fans often call it on par with a senior B, and we can't expect fans to... well be fans without top names... so the cycle continues. TCC is feeling weird, but at least they are trying to get something started... it is the first year... i have liquor, I can cut them a lot of slack... this time.

Now is Australia is not included next time, well that will certainly leave me a bit disillusioned. But for now... well i am willing to give the one strike before giving up (the event is a strike... i don't want to start listing all the individual strikes).

 

[sabinfire]

It will be interesting how the vote changes over the weeks, when people discover they can go for it multiple times.

Their website doesn't require a login or any sort of validation. You can just open your web browser in anonymous mode (I used 'incognito mode' in Chrome), and load the TCC voting page. Your browser won't remember that you just voted a second earlier, just close the window and reload again after voting, and vote again. Repeat. It works, I just voted multiple times a moment ago.

The site probably logs IP addresses. If they saw the same IP spamming dozens or more votes within a short time frame, they might invalidate those votes. You could spread it out over time, or vary your proxies. I'm always coming in under IPs other than my own, so not a concern for me... and frankly not worth my time to bother anyway. But, if you see Kuchvalska somehow win the final vote, it won't be because of multiple voting!

 

[NaVi]

The korea vs japan vote war is getting epic... I hope Radionova doesn't get taken down in the crossfire(she was actually winning in Korea when I went to bed).

Anyway, I don't think this is going to work well though I hope I'm wrong. If I were Czar of figure skating, here's what I'd do to make team figure skating a more of a real competition.

1. There would be two basic different formats of team figure skating events. Broad which is the current Olympic format, Deep which would be teams of 4 in singles, 3 in pairs/ice dance.
1a I will only be talking about Deep. I think Deep would have a better brotherhood/sisterhood type dynamic too it... kind of like in gymnastics.
2. Each team would have to have a binding theme. In doing so, it would make it more "team like" and guarantee these were almost assuredly new programs which would make creativity more of a strategic value.
2a. OPTIONAL: Consider requiring every team have a head choreographer to further binds things together
3. Skate order would be significant. Every subsequent skater on the team would have a greater multiplier applied to their score(maybe 1, 1.25, 1.50, 1.75). This would give strategic value in deciding who gets to skate and make the Team Captain job potentially decisive.
3a. OPTIONAL: Considering putting firm technical limits on the 1st(maybe even 2nd) skater. What I have in mind here are those good men's skaters who just aren't going to get a good consistent quad.
4. Skating groups would be divided by multiplier level.'
4a. OPTIONAL: Maybe allow the winner of the group decide the skate order for the next group.
5. The program length and technical content would be between a SP and a LP.
6. Yearly team event would be 3-4 national teams, 2-3 international teams in each discipline. A potential Olympic event would be 6 national teams in each discipline.

Fixes three problems I have with team figure skating. There's not enough that binds the team together, there's not much strategy, and not enough spontaneity.

 

[Mrs. P]

FWIW, I've had several friends who live in Spokane who tell me they've seen a TON of ads for this event -- and even thought of me, the hard-core skating fan, heh. One of them even told me that she's thinking of taking her daughter to the event. CoyoteChris has also pointed to the numerous press coverage for the event. So the local organizing committee, at least, is doing it's job to bring excitement to the event on a local level.

 

[Sorrento]

I'm actually very disappointed that there will neither Yuzu nor Javi at TCC.:disapp:

 

[sabinfire]

We can't really expect skaters to take "lesser" events like 4CC seriously when we as fans often call it on par with a senior B, and we can't expect fans to... well be fans without top names... so the cycle continues. TCC is feeling weird, but at least they are trying to get something started... it is the first year... i have liquor, I can cut them a lot of slack... this time.

Now is Australia is not included next time, well that will certainly leave me a bit disillusioned. But for now... well i am willing to give the one strike before giving up (the event is a strike... i don't want to start listing all the individual strikes).

Fan attitudes toward 4CC originates from the skaters, not the other way around. But I agree, the problem is compounded when the fans begin thinking that way. There's no reason 4CC shouldn't be held in higher esteem, as long as the top-tier skaters are consistently attending the event. Of course, this doesn't happen, as it's now become routine for the event to be skipped by many of the top skaters to focus on Worlds. So, it should be critical that TCC doesn't start this same trend from the very beginning, yes? The top skaters were all at WTT last season, why not TCC as well in its inaugural year?

 

[ice coverage]

Stats regarding the field so far of those who accepted invitations based on ISU World Standings as of Jan 1:

- All men were in top 11 of the World Standings
- Three ladies were in top 4 of WS
- Five pairs were in top 10 of WS
- Four dance couples were in top 5 of WS

Men https://web.archive.org/web/20160104080023/http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm:

Ten (3rd in ISU World Standings as of Jan 1)
Voronov (4)
Brown (5)
Uno (7)
Brezina (9)
Nguyen (11)​

Ladies https://web.archive.org/web/20160104080039/http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsladies.htm:

Miyahara (1)
Tuktamysheva (2)
Gold (4)
Daleman (17)
Rodeghiero (18)
Tursynbaeva (22)​

Pairs https://web.archive.org/web/20160104080031/http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wspairs.htm:

Duhamel/Radford (1)
Stolbova/Klimov (2)
Scimeca/Knierim (3)
Sui/Han (4)
della Monica/Guarise (8)
Suto/Boudreau Audet (zero points in ISU World Standings as of Jan 1)​

Dance https://web.archive.org/web/20160104080044/http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsdance.htm:

Weaver/Poje (1)
Chock/Bates (2)
Cappellini/Lanotte (4)
Papadakis/Cizeron (5)
Kim/Minov (19)
Wang/Liu (22)​

Entries per country:

One entry each:

- Czech Republic: Brezina
- France: Papadakis/Cizeron
- South Korea: Kim/Minov​

Two entries each:

- China: Sui/Han; Wang/Liu
- Kazakhstan: Ten; Tursynbaeva​

Three entries each:

- Italy: Rodeghiero; della Monica/Guarise; Cappellini/Lanotte
- Japan: Uno; Miyahara; Suto/Boudreau Audet
- Russia: Voronov; Tuktamysheva; Stolbova/Klimov​

Four entries each:

- Canada: Nguyen; Daleman; Duhamel/Radford; Weaver/Poje
- US: Brown; Gold; Scimeca/Knierim; Chock/Bates​

 

[MaxSwagg]

Aren't they going to lose big money with Yuzu not being there??

 

[Rissa]

Aren't they going to lose big money with Yuzu not being there??

Well, I suppose some Japanese fans will give the event a pass but Shoma Uno and Satoko Miyahara are not fanless either so perhaps it won't matter so much.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Fan attitudes toward 4CC originates from the skaters, not the other way around. But I agree, the problem is compounded when the fans begin thinking that way. There's no reason 4CC shouldn't be held in higher esteem, as long as the top-tier skaters are consistently attending the event. Of course, this doesn't happen, as it's now become routine for the event to be skipped by many of the top skaters to focus on Worlds. So, it should be critical that TCC doesn't start this same trend from the very beginning, yes? The top skaters were all at WTT last season, why not TCC as well in its inaugural year?

Honestly because they were required to go to WTT last year. TCC did not have that clout... and part of the reason they were required was so they would go to WTT over doing shows... and we have come full circle.

 

[sabinfire]

Honestly because they were required to go to WTT last year. TCC did not have that clout... and part of the reason they were required was so they would go to WTT over doing shows... and we have come full circle.

I guess I'm just curious why they think this format will be successful. International competitions held in the USA (aside from the occasional Worlds) typically have poor attendance. This must hurt to lose Hanyu, Fernandez, Asada, Chan... the 4 biggest draws in figure skating right now. Those are actually considered to be the top 3 men right now, all not going.

It's funny, I just noticed that most of the skaters who've qualified for TCC (or have a good chance of winning a fan vote) were at Skate America earlier this season. Team Asia's lineup in particular looks like a perfect copy of the Skate America lineup, it's really eerie. SkAm2015 was not well-attended. Maybe a change of venue and slapping 'World Team' over it will yield vastly different results?