2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[SarahSynchro]

Not saying I agree entirely with what's been said above in regards to boxing certain skaters into either the high culture or low culture classification; however, I think a good example of this concept could be found in the public contrast between Nancy and Tonya in the years leading up to the 1994 scandal.

 

[andromache]

And who is high culture in figure skating? If there is anyone

Mao Asada, maybe? I think the qualities that made her so special might not have been readily apparent to all audiences. Her skating skills were more understated (less speed than say, Carolina or Yuna) and her style was more introverted.

But I think most skaters can be both, and it really depends on the program. Yuzu's Chopin is high culture, his Prince is low, etc.

(FWIW, I don't necessarily buy into these labels, especially the negative connotations of "low culture." But it is true that that some skaters/programs have way more mass appeal than others, and are able to reach out to non-skating fans, and there are also qualities that are far less appreciated by mass audiences but that we knowledgeable skating fans care about a lot.

One is not better or worse than the other, IMO.)

 

[Bluediamonds09]

So Mariah Bell changed her mind on Beauty and the beast? She's now using across the universe (sp) and west side story (lp) ??

 

[andromache]

So Mariah Bell changed her mind on Beauty and the beast? She's now using across the universe (sp) and west side story (lp) ??

I have no idea what "The Universe" is, and I'm curious as to whether it's possible for West Side Story NOT to come off as very dated. But still - Mariah is in her 20s, which is too old to be skating to Beauty and the Beast. Good.

 

[bevybean]

I love Ashley, but she's not without her flaws. Skating-wise, she's weak than many of the other top ladies in the world.

"Low culture" can often have a negative connotation, but I think that's unfair. Having those qualities which appeal to mass audiences isn't an easy thing. Sure, some types of low culture are meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator (trashy reality tv, beer commercials), but that's not Ashley. In theater terms, she's Broadway. As a movie analogy, she's a hit rom-com. But her skating might be less appealing to audiences who focus more on blade-to-ice work.

And you've touched on the real rub to these labels. I've seen modern dance troupes who are amazingly talented, but are considered "less than" because they *gasp* have commercial appeal too. In many theater circles, at least, if you don't leave the theater felling a.) horribly depressed b.) slightly confused about what just happened or c.) both, then it must not have been real art.

I think it is a bit different for skating though because there is that technical aspect to include in watching. I'm not really all that educated a fan and I notice when people stalk their jumps. --which I think detracts from the artistry too.I also think that some of the controversy with Nathan Chen's artistry from last season was that it was very much in the "Classical ballet" style which is very high brow and not necessarily emotional. Don't get me wrong --I've seen ballet done to more modern pieces that is just heart-wrenching. But the classical stuff just isn't very often (and fits into the "b." category above. Because I defy anyone to tell me they understood the story the first time they saw a classical ballet without reading the synopsis.)

 

[stella luna]

I have no idea what "The Universe" is, and I'm curious as to whether it's possible for West Side Story NOT to come off as very dated. But still - Mariah is in her 20s, which is too old to be skating to Beauty and the Beast. Good.

"Across the Universe" is a Beatles song, very hippy trippy.

 

[elbkup]

Great text on the subject ... "High Brow Low Brow"..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0674...w+low+brow&dpPl=1&dpID=51IpLI9xQfL&ref=plSrch

 

[andromache]

Great text on the subject ... "High Brow Low Brow"..
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0674...w+low+brow&dpPl=1&dpID=51IpLI9xQfL&ref=plSrch

Haven't read this, but based on the summary - yes, it sounds super accurate.

Anyway, it's super easy to write stuff off as "elitist" or "snobby" or too difficult, but it's worth taking the time to learn about them and understand them. Sure, depending on where you come from and your level of education, it might be a challenge, and definitely impossible to do in ALL instances. Still, you might realize a love of modern art or dance or experimental literature or Shakespeare. Don't deprive yourself of that.

And if you're coming from the other perspective, it's easy to write stuff off as dumb or worthless or mindless trash - if it's soooo easy to understand, it must be beneath you. I spent a few years in academia, in a literature department, and this was the perspective that many students and professors had. But creating art that is accessible or endearing or has mass appeal is important too, as is understanding exactly how it is done, and appreciating that. Plus, like, god forbid we just ENJOY something because it's enjoyable, and not necessarily because it makes you look smart and has cultural cache.

It's just about being open to all kinds of things, "low culture" or "high culture."

 

[elbkup]

Haven't read this, but based on the summary - yes, it sounds super accurate.

Anyway, it's super easy to write stuff off as "elitist" or "snobby" or too difficult, but it's worth taking the time to learn about them and understand them. Sure, depending on where you come from and your level of education, it might be a challenge, and definitely impossible to do in ALL instances. Still, you might realize a love of modern art or dance or experimental literature or Shakespeare. Don't deprive yourself of that.

And if you're coming from the other perspective, it's easy to write stuff off as dumb or worthless or mindless trash - if it's soooo easy to understand, it must be beneath you. I spent a few years in academia, in a literature department, and this was the perspective that many students and professors had. But creating art that is accessible or endearing or has mass appeal is important too, as is understanding exactly how it is done, and appreciating that. Plus, like, god forbid we just ENJOY something because it's enjoyable, and not necessarily because it makes you look smart and has cultural cache.

It's just about being open to all kinds of things, "low culture" or "high culture."

Well said and to the point. Amazing how much stuff was written off as Low Brow or marginal in decades past and is now considered high art by today's standards... Photography for example. Can't go too far wrong if quality is one's standard when considering works that are totally new and different. FWIW I love Polina's programs this year!

 

[mrrice]

I wonder if she plans on using the Fiona Apple remake. It was used in the movie Pleasantville. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ5WPXxNzPU

 

[rane]

"Across the Universe" is a Beatles song, very hippy trippy.

I hope it's this version!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe1lVDbLf0

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I love Ashley, but she's not without her flaws. Skating-wise, she's weak than many of the other top ladies in the world.

"Low culture" can often have a negative connotation, but I think that's unfair. Having those qualities which appeal to mass audiences isn't an easy thing. Sure, some types of low culture are meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator (trashy reality tv, beer commercials), but that's not Ashley. In theater terms, she's Broadway. As a movie analogy, she's a hit rom-com. But her skating might be less appealing to audiences who focus more on blade-to-ice work.

Thanks for clarifying. Low culture to me is Tonya Harding (who I absolutely loved as an athlete, but not much beyond that). I mean, I absolutely lived for her tackiness and loved when she would beat more daintier, refined skaters with sheer athleticism.

Wagner is girl next door turned Hollywood glamour to me. So maybe rough around the edges, but still with some refinement and class. There is greater authenticity to her "interpretation" than other skaters, but she it isn't quite as natural as a Kwan. She's got this Jennifer Lawrence vibe about her in that she is approachable, relatable and down to earth, but also has a fierceness and maturity.

 

[artsciboy]

I love Ashley, but she's not without her flaws. Skating-wise, she's weak than many of the other top ladies in the world.

"Low culture" can often have a negative connotation, but I think that's unfair. Having those qualities which appeal to mass audiences isn't an easy thing. Sure, some types of low culture are meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator (trashy reality tv, beer commercials), but that's not Ashley. In theater terms, she's Broadway. As a movie analogy, she's a hit rom-com. But her skating might be less appealing to audiences who focus more on blade-to-ice work.

There is nothing "low culture" about Ashley's Pollock, Red Violin, Romeo & Juliet and Exogenesis programs. Sweet Dreams aside (not a terrible program but definitely a misfire as a competitive program), I also think that there's an argument to be made that her other competitive programs have a level of sophistication and nuance to them that would make it unfair to label them low culture.

As for Ashley's skating skills, she is more than on par with the other top ladies of this quad (all of whom have their own deficiencies such that I hardly think that there's a true standpoint on this component) - whether she effectively makes use of said skills in her programs vis-a-vis transitions, etc. varies by program.

 

[samson]

oh hah. when I read "Across the Universe" I immediately went to the Julie Taymor film. But just doing the actual song makes more sense. I do love some of the Beatles cover from that movie though. Especially Blackbird, Dear Prudence, and I Wanna Hold Your Hand.

 

[andromache]

Wagner is girl next door turned Hollywood glamour to me. So maybe rough around the edges, but still with some refinement and class. There is greater authenticity to her "interpretation" than other skaters, but she it isn't quite as natural as a Kwan. She's got this Jennifer Lawrence vibe about her in that she is approachable, relatable and down to earth, but also has a fierceness and maturity.

Love this entire paragraph and 95% agree - I'm just not a Jennifer Lawrence fan .

As she's gotten older she's become more and more authentic, relatable, and self-aware. Even if I didn't love her skating, I would root for her.

 

[Ender]

Haven't read this, but based on the summary - yes, it sounds super accurate.

Anyway, it's super easy to write stuff off as "elitist" or "snobby" or too difficult, but it's worth taking the time to learn about them and understand them. Sure, depending on where you come from and your level of education, it might be a challenge, and definitely impossible to do in ALL instances. Still, you might realize a love of modern art or dance or experimental literature or Shakespeare. Don't deprive yourself of that.

And if you're coming from the other perspective, it's easy to write stuff off as dumb or worthless or mindless trash - if it's soooo easy to understand, it must be beneath you. I spent a few years in academia, in a literature department, and this was the perspective that many students and professors had. But creating art that is accessible or endearing or has mass appeal is important too, as is understanding exactly how it is done, and appreciating that. Plus, like, god forbid we just ENJOY something because it's enjoyable, and not necessarily because it makes you look smart and has cultural cache.

It's just about being open to all kinds of things, "low culture" or "high culture."

I am a classical musician geek and I enjoy Linkin Park. I also like some broadway programs. I think it doesn't matter if someone or something is labeled as high or low. The point is how people find it suitable to the performance and the ideal. Some classical musical pieces get huge appreciation from the mass media (for example Beethoven sym 7 or 9) and they're still difficult and "high culture".

 

[largeman]

I wonder if she plans on using the Fiona Apple remake. It was used in the movie Pleasantville. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ5WPXxNzPU

If she uses Fiona Apple's Across the Universe, her SP will be my favorite SP of the season. I don't need to see the actual choreography.

oh hah. when I read "Across the Universe" I immediately went to the Julie Taymor film. But just doing the actual song makes more sense. I do love some of the Beatles cover from that movie though. Especially Blackbird, Dear Prudence, and I Wanna Hold Your Hand.

I love the Beatles covers from the "I am Sam" soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7B1A0C025DF0ABD9
My favorites are Blackbird by Sarah McLachlan and Revolution by Grandaddy : topic:

 

[stella luna]

I wonder if she plans on using the Fiona Apple remake. It was used in the movie Pleasantville. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ5WPXxNzPU

There's also a 2007 movie called Across the Universe, starring Evan Rachel Wood. The cast sings Beatles songs.

 

[charlotte14]

I hope Gracie and Mirai can make it!! They're the one I want to see at the Olympic. Along with Karen.

 

[Spinning]

There's also a 2007 movie called Across the Universe, starring Evan Rachel Wood. The cast sings Beatles songs.

Or the movie "I Am Sam". Rufus Wainwright's version.