2017-18 State of U.S. Ladies Skating

[skylark]

There is nothing "low culture" about Ashley's Pollock, Red Violin, Romeo & Juliet and Exogenesis programs. Sweet Dreams aside (not a terrible program but definitely a misfire as a competitive program), I also think that there's an argument to be made that her other competitive programs have a level of sophistication and nuance to them that would make it unfair to label them low culture.

Agree, 100%. Some fans won't, or refuse to see this.

As for Ashley's skating skills, she is more than on par with the other top ladies of this quad (all of whom have their own deficiencies such that I hardly think that there's a true standpoint on this component)

I've noticed that, for instance, Mao and Carolina don't get nearly the criticism, for their own technical issues, that Ashley does for hers. Mao's URs are hotly criticized as wrongly judged, by some of the same people who harangue endlessly about Ashley's; Carolina has reduced technical difficulty but is revered.

Wagner is girl next door turned Hollywood glamour to me. So maybe rough around the edges, but still with some refinement and class. There is greater authenticity to her "interpretation" than other skaters, but she it isn't quite as natural as a Kwan. She's got this Jennifer Lawrence vibe about her in that she is approachable, relatable and down to earth, but also has a fierceness and maturity.

:agree: I think it's her authenticity and vulnerability on the ice that create something that literally no one else has. Creativity gurus such as Julia Cameron laud authenticity and vulnerability as producing the truest art.

Thanks for clarifying. Low culture to me is Tonya Harding (who I absolutely loved as an athlete, but not much beyond that). I mean, I absolutely lived for her tackiness and loved when she would beat more daintier, refined skaters with sheer athleticism.

Egad. You just described, to me, the reason Trump has so many supporters. It's sort of a British overlords vs. scrappy Scots-Irish underdogs thing that's been going on with more ethnic groups than just those, and got underlined post-Civil War.

"Too many of those who considered themselves educated and cultured lost for a significant period--and many have still not regained--their ability to discriminate independently, to sort things out for themselves and understand that simply because a form of expressive culture was widely accessible and highly popular it was not therefore necessarily devoid of any redeeming value or artistic merit."​

Just shift this slightly, and it could be talking about figure skating fans who consider themselves educated (as described in this thread as focusing more on SS, blade-to-ice, etc.)

 

[Seren]

Unfortunately it's difficult to make the distinction between different types of skaters, there aren't really good words to describe them. I don't think high and low culture were meant as offensive. I think of low culture as a popular film and high culture as going to the symphony. Both are enjoyable in their own way.

But high and low have negative connotations. I think I would describe skaters like Ashley as having more obvious showmanship, extroversion, and storytelling- this isn't a bad thing. Her moulin rouge was a good example, and I love that program. She uses emotion and performing ability to draw the crowd in. For the casual viewer of skating this has more appeal. I would actually describe Evgenia this way- she is an awesome technician, but uses obvious storytelling to draw in the audience.

Other skater rely on less obvious storytelling and more on skating skills and technical difficulty. They can be emotionally powerful without "telling a story". Skaters like Mao, Yuna, Zijun, Satoko, and Sotskova come to mind. They are beautiful to watch but generally don't use obvious storytelling. Yuna's Les Miserables is a good example- she wasn't playing a character even though the music came from a Broadway, easily regonizable source.

Both can be great and I don't think one style is better than the other. We will all have preferences but different skaters appeal to us in different ways. There are also definitely skaters that do both.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

If mirai trains in Colorado Springs, why is her stamina not great?
I think mirai has issues at Nationals and I really want her on Olympic team but.....can she face the pressure and perform well come January????

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I've noticed that, for instance, Mao and Carolina don't get nearly the criticism, for their own technical issues, that Ashley does for hers. Mao's URs are hotly criticized as wrongly judged, by some of the same people who harangue endlessly about Ashley's; Carolina has reduced technical difficulty but is revered.

I agree. One thing I found startling in Carolina's comeback was how slow she moved across the ice. I'm not sure if it was a fitness issue, but there seemed to be some confusion about why her PCS was a bit lower relative to the top skaters, and I think her lack of speed had a lot to do with that.

 

[mrrice]

If mirai trains in Colorado Springs, why is her stamina not great?
I think mirai has issues at Nationals and I really want her on Olympic team but.....can she face the pressure and perform well come January????

That's an excellent question. We've all seen them running up that giant hill and lord knows if they can do that on a regular basis, I can't imagine that stamina is the real issue. I think it might be nerves. We've all been nervous and nerves make your heart beat faster which can often cause you to take shorter breaths. I've been in great shape and still been ready to pass out after a 3 minute dance routine due to nerves. I hope that made sense.

 

[stella luna]

Or the movie "I Am Sam". Rufus Wainwright's version.

There's no shortage of Beatles covers, that's for sure.

 

[hippomoomin]

Is this a recent competition? Karen has some bandage around her knee. Some injury?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXPeHYkwAg4

 

[Moxiejan]

Is this a recent competition? Karen has some bandage around her knee. Some injury?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXPeHYkwAg4

Yes, the video is labeled as being from the the Philadelphia competition, about 2 weeks ago.
Karen had a nasty fall in practice & bruised her knee. She wrapped it for the SP (shown in video); she was 4th, iirc.
So as to not risk further injury, she withdrew from the LP.
Scores & results for the event are in the "Summer Competitions" area.

 

[largeman]

Is this a recent competition? Karen has some bandage around her knee. Some injury?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXPeHYkwAg4

Yes, this was from August 5. She had bruised her knee from a bad fall during practice. It was serious enough that she ultimately decided to withdraw from the free skate. She seems cheery in her Instagram posts and stories... I can only hope the knee is healing nicely.

 

[Matilda]

I hope it's this version!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAe1lVDbLf0

I was just thinking, "please choose the Rufus Wainwright version! :thumbsup:

 

[hippomoomin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMGc5aUSg0
Saw a video of Amber Glenn in the same competition. Her FS looks great till she had a bad fall on step sequence. She showed great potential in her first international junior season, but fell apart in the FS (debut of a new FS, not a good idea) at the National. She is kind of off radar since. It seems she has great speed and good basics. Her jumps are also big, but tend to make mistake. Wiki suggests she is a Texas native and also trains there. I wonder if a coaching change can do some wonders to her. Her overall package looks much better than Bradie, but just cannot put things together.

 

[Ice Dance]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMGc5aUSg0
Her jumps are also big, but tend to make mistake.

She tends to pop. Similar to Courtney Hicks. It all looks good on paper, and then the rotations aren't there in competition. Plus the second mark isn't strong enough to hold her up. Not bad, but not enough to bring in the second mark when the jumps aren't there.

 

[Moxiejan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMGc5aUSg0
Saw a video of Amber Glenn in the same competition. Her FS looks great till she had a bad fall on step sequence. She showed great potential in her first international junior season, but fell apart in the FS (debut of a new FS, not a good idea) at the National. She is kind of off radar since. It seems she has great speed and good basics. Her jumps are also big, but tend to make mistake. Wiki suggests she is a Texas native and also trains there. I wonder if a coaching change can do some wonders to her. Her overall package looks much better than Bradie, but just cannot put things together.

I seem to remember that until fairly recently, she had been training on the West Coast & was in a relationship with Nathan (posted via her social media).

She now has moved to the Cain camp in Texas, so has had a coaching change.

 

[Bluediamonds09]

I seem to remember that until fairly recently, she had been training on the West Coast & was in a relationship with Nathan (posted via her social media).

She now has moved to the Cain camp in Texas, so has had a coaching change.

Amber has rippon and tano features and could make a splash. If if if she skates clean. I really believe that bradie will get the tbd spot, though.

 

[andromache]

Amber has rippon and tano features and could make a splash. If if if she skates clean. I really believe that bradie will get the tbd spot, though.

As a big Amber Glenn fan, it's still definitely Bradie who deserves that tbd spot.

That said, I'm hoping Amber gains some consistency this season. After dealing with injury, time off, a coaching change, etc. the past few years, now would be the perfect time to get some stability in her skating. Doing well at more than one Senior B and doing well enough at Nationals to go to 4CCs would be huge for her.

 

[SnowWhite]

I seem to remember that until fairly recently, she had been training on the West Coast & was in a relationship with Nathan (posted via her social media).

She now has moved to the Cain camp in Texas, so has had a coaching change.

Looking at her social media, she seems to have been training in Texas since at least Fall 2015, and there are a lot of training pictures with her and Ashley Cain starting ~February 2016.

I just checked her wikipedia page and it says that Feb 2016 is when she moved from Ann Brumbaugh and Ben Shroats in McKinney, TX to the Cains.

 

[mrrice]

As a big Amber Glenn fan, it's still definitely Bradie who deserves that tbd spot.

That said, I'm hoping Amber gains some consistency this season. After dealing with injury, time off, a coaching change, etc. the past few years, now would be the perfect time to get some stability in her skating. Doing well at more than one Senior B and doing well enough at Nationals to go to 4CCs would be huge for her.

I agree with this in every way. I do like Amber's skating however, based on what I've seen so far, I would also give the spot to Bradie. When you come back from an injury, it's a difficult time. In same ways, you want things around to be familiar, in other ways, you want a completely fresh start. In my case, I was happy to be with a new coach/choreographer. Here's why.... I don't think I could have handled being reminded of how good I "Used" to be. Like you mentioned, I think she'll be happy if she skates well at Senior B's and has a top 10 finish at Nationals. 4CC would be a great way to end the season for her.

 

[Jammers]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waMGc5aUSg0
Saw a video of Amber Glenn in the same competition. Her FS looks great till she had a bad fall on step sequence. She showed great potential in her first international junior season, but fell apart in the FS (debut of a new FS, not a good idea) at the National. She is kind of off radar since. It seems she has great speed and good basics. Her jumps are also big, but tend to make mistake. Wiki suggests she is a Texas native and also trains there. I wonder if a coaching change can do some wonders to her. Her overall package looks much better than Bradie, but just cannot put things together.

People joke that Amber and Paige Rydberg are Gracie clones in that they are blond and look a bit like Gracie and they both also skate like her in they have big jumps but they also tend to fall apart in the LP like Gracie has been known to do occasionally but neither of them has accomplished anything close to what Gracie has in her career so far.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

People joke that Amber and Paige Rydberg are Gracie clones in that they are blond and look a bit like Gracie and they both also skate like her in they have big jumps but they also tend to fall apart in the LP like Gracie has been known to do occasionally but neither of them has accomplished anything close to what Gracie has in her career so far.

Interesting indeed because when I last saw Paige about a month ago she was more light brunette than blonde.

 

[Kittosuni]

I cant seem to remember but why was Gubanova didnt go to Junior Worlds last year? She won her GPs right?