2017-18 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[Blades of Passion]

Base value means nothing if you aren't pulling it off.

But Zhou is. He's been doing the quads relatively consistently and won the LP by a sizeable margin at Finlandia. Brown and Rippon don't have a single consistent quad.

Aaron is going for 3 or 4.

Only Salchow/Toeloop and the rest of his skating is even weaker than Zhou's.

 

[Mrs. P]

Worth noting. Obviously things will change:

1 319.84 Shoma UNO JPN ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2017 16.09.2017
2 279.07 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP ISU CS Autumn Classic International 2017 23.09.2017
3 275.04 Nathan CHEN USA ISU CS US Internat. FS Classic 2017 15.09.2017
4 268.24 Yuzuru HANYU JPN ISU CS Autumn Classic International 2017 23.09.2017
5 261.56 Max AARON USA ISU CS US Internat. FS Classic 2017 15.09.2017
6 259.88 Jason BROWN USA ISU CS Lombardia Trophy 2017 16.09.2017
7 253.06 Jorik HENDRICKX BEL ISU CS Nebelhorn Trophy 2017 29.09.2017
8. 252.60 Boyang JIN CHN ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 07.10.2017
9. 250.01 Vincent ZHOU USA ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 07.10.2017
10. 249.88 Adam RIPPON USA ISU CS Finlandia Trophy 2017 07.10.2017

(The Finlandia scores aren't up yet, but I went ahead and added them).

5 U.S. men in the top 10. That's cool to see. And the only big name missing at this point in the season is Patrick Chan. Still. pretty awesome depth.

 

[karne]

But Zhou is. He's been doing the quads relatively consistently and won the LP by a sizeable margin at Finlandia. Brown and Rippon don't have a single consistent quad.

But Zhou's NOT. If he was, shouldn't he have laid down a 270+ total at Finlandia? But he didn't. Because he's not rotating his jumps. Because he's not pulling off the base value.

Only Salchow/Toeloop and the rest of his skating is even weaker than Zhou's.

A Salchow/toeloop that he actually rotates...unlike Zhou!

 

[Blades of Passion]

Yes Zhou IS. He got 1 underrotation call across 6 quads in the competition (I personally would have given it for the Sal in the LP rather than the Lutz in the SP, but whatever). Max Aaron doesn't have more consistency on his quads at all. His easier quads. Zhou lost many points because of 3Axel mistakes but I can forgive that, seeing as how his program is both newer and more difficult. His track record shows he will gain stability as the season progresses. Max Aaron's track record does not. His recent showing might end up being the highlight of his season.

And yeah, Zhou doesn't have the greatest jump technique/quality, but he's showing excellent ability with the jumps and also with his overall growth as a skater and performer.

 

[karne]

Yes Zhou IS. He got 1 underrotation call across 6 quads in the competition (I personally would have given it for the Sal in the LP rather than the Lutz in the SP, but whatever). Max Aaron doesn't have more consistency on his quads at all. His easier quads. Zhou lost many points because of 3Axel mistakes but I can forgive that, seeing as how his program is both newer and more difficult. His track record shows he will gain stability as the season progresses. Max Aaron's track record does not. His recent showing might end up being the highlight of his season.

And yeah, Zhou doesn't have the greatest jump technique/quality, but he's showing excellent ability with the jumps and also with his overall growth as a skater and performer.

Awww, you're still so upset that Pitkeev didn't win SkAm 2015, aren't you?

 

[Blades of Passion]

Awww, you're still so upset that Pitkeev didn't win SkAm 2015, aren't you?

LOL, how random. That's the best argument you've got?

I only thought Pitkeev should have won the SP though. Shoma Uno the LP and overall. And none for Max Aaron, bye.

 

[karne]

LOL, how random. That's the best argument you've got?

I only thought Pitkeev should have won the SP though. Shoma Uno the LP and overall. And none for Max Aaron, bye.

Oh please, Max was the best damn skater at Skate America 2015 and anyone with a brain knew it.

He was also the best damn skater at US Nationals 2016 too but apparently the tech panel went on holiday during Rippon's skate. And you know what? That's what I'm worried will happen at this Nationals too. That Nathan and Max (and Joshua if he's there) will be unfairly penalised by the tech panel's leniency during skaters with known UR issues.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Oh please, Max was the best damn skater at Skate America 2015 and anyone with a brain knew it.

I pray for your taste.

Thankfully, Shoma Uno quickly established himself and everyone realizes how superior he is. Have them give those exact same performances now and Shoma would easily be ahead.

In fact, if you look at the competitors at 2015 Skate America, Max was probably the worst skater of them all. But he did compete well enough to deserve 2nd place.

 

[Weathergal]

whole post

Thanks for a very informative post, Mrs P. I always appreciate your analysis and learn something the process! Sometimes I think you bring a much-needed perspective to things. :thumbsup:

He has a 4T but hasn't been doing it because the toeing in on it bothers his injury from last season.

Also, Adam didn't do his Rippon jump at Finlandia because of a dislocated shoulder.

Thank you for the info, Ice3Rabbit. I knew about the 4T issue but didn't realize Adam had a shoulder injury. I was wondering why no Rippon from the man himself! His Rippon Lutz = :luv17:

 

[TontoK]

Oh please, Max was the best damn skater at Skate America 2015 and anyone with a brain knew it.

He was also the best damn skater at US Nationals 2016 too but apparently the tech panel went on holiday during Rippon's skate. And you know what? That's what I'm worried will happen at this Nationals too. That Nathan and Max (and Joshua if he's there) will be unfairly penalised by the tech panel's leniency during skaters with known UR issues.

Agree. This is a continual problem at US Nationals.

It is horrendous with the men, and downright laughable with the ladies.

The lenient calls are criminally unfair to technically proficient skaters.

I get that USFSA wants everyone to leave Nationals with a warm glowing feeling, but it's almost become one of those 1990's cheese-fests, like Ice Wars or something.

 

[artsciboy]

Oh please, Max was the best damn skater at Skate America 2015 and anyone with a brain knew it.

He was also the best damn skater at US Nationals 2016 too but apparently the tech panel went on holiday during Rippon's skate. And you know what? That's what I'm worried will happen at this Nationals too. That Nathan and Max (and Joshua if he's there) will be unfairly penalised by the tech panel's leniency during skaters with known UR issues.

Oh please, Nathan has nothing to worry about. He's the anointed one (rightly or wrongly). He can fall 5 times at Nationals and still make the Olympic team.

 

[skylark]

He was also the best damn skater at US Nationals 2016 too but apparently the tech panel went on holiday during Rippon's skate.

And here begins yet another long season of Rippon-blaming posts a la Karne. This is the third year of it in a row ... or, at least, three years are all I know about.

 

[Mrs. P]

IN case some of you missed it, I wrote a pre-GP analysis of the US Men yesterday. Check it out here: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/s...gure-Skating&p=1800465&viewfull=1#post1800465

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

And here begins yet another long season of Rippon-blaming posts a la Karne. This is the third year of it in a row ... or, at least, three years are all I know about.

Guess the torch has been passed from Abbott to Rippon. Either way...

 

[mrrice]

Oh please, Nathan has nothing to worry about. He's the anointed one (rightly or wrongly). He can fall 5 times at Nationals and still make the Olympic team.

This is true and rightly so. It was the same way when Ashley was put on the team ahead of Mirai. Unless he's injured, I doubt we'll see him fall 5 times. As for being anointed, don't you think he earned it with his HUGE win last year. When you look at the men at the top of skating, it is clear that the Men we send to the Olympics need to have multiple quads if they're going to have any chance at Medaling. It's still early and I'll wait until the GP gets going before I "Annoint" anyone.

 

[beki]

Oh please, Nathan has nothing to worry about. He's the anointed one (rightly or wrongly). He can fall 5 times at Nationals and still make the Olympic team.

I agree... but I also remember favorites McLaughlin/Brubaker totally flopping in 2010 like it was yesterday. The judges couldn't give it to them even if they wanted to. But maybe that was once in a lifetime.

 

[Tavi...]

This is true and rightly so. It was the same way when Ashley was put on the team ahead of Mirai. Unless he's injured, I doubt we'll see him fall 5 times. As for being anointed, don't you think he earned it with his HUGE win last year. When you look at the men at the top of skating, it is clear that the Men we send to the Olympics need to have multiple quads if they're going to have any chance at Medaling. It's still early and I'll wait until the GP gets going before I "Annoint" anyone.

Totally disagree. I'd be very surprised if any US man besides Nathan has a chance of medalling, no matter how many quads he lands. Landing multiple quads may well help Vincent or Max, for example, make the US team, but that doesn't mean they'll be medal contenders in Korea.

 

[mrrice]

Totally disagree. I'd be very surprised if any US man besides Nathan has a chance of medalling, no matter how many quads he lands. Landing multiple quads may well help Vincent or Max, for example, make the US team, but that doesn't mean they'll be medal contenders in Korea.

That's what I was trying to say. At this point Nathan, and possibly Vincent are our best chance at a medal because they can perform as well as they jump. Max has shown HUGE improvement since he won Nats with Footloose way back in 2013. Since I don't have any idea how Joshua Farris is looking, my pick for the team remains the same. Nathan, Vincent and Max. With Adam Rippon as the wildcard.

 

[mrrice]

Oh please, Max was the best damn skater at Skate America 2015 and anyone with a brain knew it.

He was also the best damn skater at US Nationals 2016 too but apparently the tech panel went on holiday during Rippon's skate. And you know what? That's what I'm worried will happen at this Nationals too. That Nathan and Max (and Joshua if he's there) will be unfairly penalised by the tech panel's leniency during skaters with known UR issues.

If the Tech Panel is smart, they won't undermine a skater in that way. There's no point in giving skaters false hope and with tech savvy fans like we have here on GS... We would all know that a skater was being"Held Up." We have several Men who can successfully land a quad and it will really come down to whoever brings it under the pressure of Nationals. I know that Ricky was the JGPF Champion when he made his first world team in 2011. Maybe Alexei or Camden will make the team.

 

[ice coverage]

... Max has shown HUGE improvement since he won Nats with Footloose was back in 2013. ...

Max Aaron won 2013 Nats with his "Tron" SP and "West Side Story" FS.

"Footloose" was not his SP until later.

But ... yes, Max has shown huge improvement .