2017 Japan Open

[Tulipstar]

Then ISU/IOC/Rest of figure skating world need to take greater initiative to ensure a diversifying and balanced group of judges should be in place, and make a conscientious effort to provide greater representation. Or even better... get rid of fed supported judges. Make Judging organisation independent altogether. This is the 2017, not 1950s.

I am puzzled. Why would 2 North American judges on the same panel be considered as wrong? When 8/9 European judges on the same panel would right? (or even 7/9) :think:

Great Britain (Where I am based) is an always exception, we pride ourselves on independent thoughts (sometimes, uh... too independent).

So the only country that is okay is the one you're from?
And this because the British are capable of independent thought, with the implication that the rest of us are not.

You made good points about diversity, but this is just not true. Please try to obtain some more knowledge about other European countries before you make such statements.

 

[eppen]

The selection process for judges is fairly complicated. The country has to have ISU international qualified judges (plural better than not, different disciplines, one judge can't do too many competitions etc)., then have to enter the draw about half a year before the major competitions, a rep has to be present at the draw. Some 30 countries usually enter the draw and 13 gets drawn for each discipline in each comp. Then the final panel of 9 gets drawn right before the competition and then lately they've changed the panel between SP and FS, see eg the draw document for 2017 major championships http://www.isu.org/communications/519-2048-judges-draw-by-number-championships-2017-rev/file

The old world has a lot more nations who have qualified judges than the Americas and probably Asia as well altogether. The new skating nations need a bit of time before they have the resources they need to participate.

I think the old block voting strategy is probably very much a thing of the past. The complicated judging system makes it very hard to work - it is not really possible to control the 12-13 GOEs and the 5 PCS scores for so many judges that it could possibly work. Last year when the judge's scores could be connected with the person, I looked at the GP series judging and the geographic bias you could see was for judges giving a high score to their own and a lowish one to their main competitor. And that seems to apply in very many cases. The Western Europeans did not unanimously love eg Javi (the Eastern Europeans did for the most part, though), nor the Asians loved Hanyu or Uno. I've checked after that every now and then just for fun and that seems to apply more or less in every comp.

E

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Then ISU/IOC/Rest of figure skating world need to take greater initiative to ensure a diversifying and balanced group of judges should be in place, and make a conscientious effort to provide greater representation. Or even better... get rid of fed supported judges. Make Judging organisation independent altogether. This is the 2017, not 1950s.

I am puzzled. Why would 2 North American judges on the same panel be considered as wrong? When 8/9 European judges on the same panel would right? (or even 7/9) :think:

Great Britain (Where I am based) is an always exception, we pride ourselves on independent thoughts (sometimes, uh... too independent).

So you dont understand now I was saying that 2 North American judges, or 3 Asia and Oceania judges or 8 European judges in a judging panel of 9 could be considered equally wrong... but it happens sometime. Let me explain to you once again - There are around 70 countries part of the figure skating union. From that 70 countries almost 50 might have licensed judges (some smaller federations dont have it). In a World or Olympic competition those contries with official judges send 1 candidate. North and South America will have 4 candidates, Asia and Ocania 10, and the rest are candidates from European countries. Every continent and every country have equal right to be represent in judging. Cause around 75 % countries in a judging pool are from Europe, around 75% of chosen judges will be from Europe, 15-20% from Asia and Oceania and 5-10% from North America. So, you can see which constitution of judging panel should be right. Its a simple proportion. That is how things works in every Olympic sport.

 

[OS]

Only if they actually know what they're doing. Having seen the "wonderful" way the Mexican judge for example scores, or say Australian, then no, I am not for any diversity just for the sake of diversity and diversity as you describe it, because Europe suddenly became a country according to you and not a continent.

As far as I see, diversity is already represented by different countries. We do not have five judges from one country. And no matter how many times you repeat it, European judges are not some kind of monolith, all of them representing "one" place. Now until by some miracle (and it isn't happening anytime soon) all states that comprise the European Union agree to some sort of Euro-USA, and that ends up leading to only one judge from UES, we already have diversity - different countries, different judges.
Nothing is preventing other countries to get qualified judges and put them in the pool.

Once more, European states are not a monolith. We have incredibly differing cultures, socio-economic conditions and history. All of us have different relations to Russia - which seems to be your point - and these are often incredibly complex relations, precisely due to our very long history.

I am going by the pattern of judging, supported by actual results, unprecedented PCS inflation and looks for a possible explanation for the wild inflation.
These are the facts

European judges overwhelmingly made up high percentage ladies FS panel for at least last 5 consecutive years.
European Championships have historically produced among the biggest inflation out of all the season competitions. This says something about how Europeans regard their own skaters regardless of everything you said. Their skaters continued to receive further inflation by the European majority judge panel at world championships.

Europe may have a longer history in this sport, therefore, greater number of 'qualified' judges, but are you seriously telling me they could not find 10 qualified ISU judges in North/South America, 10 in the Asia/Australia region? Can not put all qualified judges worldwide on rotation? Instead always rely on the same group of judges. Why did they not bothered to get some, train some?

The prime directive should always be about what is most fair FOR THE SKATERS who came from world all over to compete on a level playing field, NOT what would be most fair for the federations and their qualified judges due to XYZ!!

Europe at large may be culturally diverse but ISU judges are likely a small exclusive circle going by the list of names I read, some judges at repeat events. There is more opportunity to socialise and potential for collusion if you belong to the same social circle instead of say, 8 random strangers who came from all over the world to judge.

There are reasons why Carmen, Swanlake continued to be the safe bet. They are being done for the judges' benefit, particularly European majority. It is like a safety blanket. It is getting tired, predictable and should be discouraged. The lack of variety, diversity representation breed Eurocentricism, which leads to the death of innovation, laziness, complacency and slanted results, as much as you want to disagree otherwise. The result is in the pudding.

The fact judges are supposed to represent federation interest are already a huge conflict of interests and warning sign for possible corruption. Then you have consecutive years of overwhelming European majority panel that just happens just to have produced the greatest inflated results for their European Champion at an unprecedented level despite her newbie status, How can this not look questionable, or just plainly bad at a basic level?


If I was to create the perfect judge panel, I would

• Separate judges independent from federation or even ISU power.
• Judges need to be examined on a merit basis. Their experience should be fully disclosed, which competition, what marks they awarded, anything they'd change. Self-appraisal.
• They need passes on going exams, monitor of standards through peer review and require to study and familiarizing with COP historical standard to apply judging standard consistency, as PCS has a maximum out of 10, so sensitivity to inflation and threshold deviation are extremely important.
• Only the best and highest ranked judges get to judge at the most important elite event, just like any profession. They have to earn their spot, not through federation support, or whether they may be historically favourable to who, doing federation's bidding.
• Poor judging should receive black mark which should be publically disclosed and recorded.
• Any one caught cheating or colluding should be banned for life. Reporting of possible collusion should be encouraged, prized and informent identity should be kept confidential.
• Fair firm and strict judges should be treated like Rockstars, and be wholly accountable for their decisions, including answerable to the public via press conferences and social media.
• Ensure there are preventative measures to minimise patterns of judging, like momentum building, PCS boosting, repeat judging on the same event, same skaters consecutively. What would be the acceptable tolerance?

So you dont understand now I was saying that 2 North American judges, or 3 Asia and Oceania judges or 8 European judges in a judging panel of 9 could be considered equally wrong... but it happens sometime. Let me explain to you once again - There are around 70 countries part of the figure skating union. From that 70 countries almost 50 might have licensed judges (some smaller federations dont have it). In a World or Olympic competition those contries with official judges send 1 candidate. North and South America will have 4 candidates, Asia and Ocania 10, and the rest are candidates from European countries. Every continent and every country have equal right to be represent in judging. Cause around 75 % countries in a judging pool are from Europe, around 75% of chosen judges will be from Europe, 15-20% from Asia and Oceania and 5-10% from North America. So, you can see which constitution of judging panel should be right. Its a simple proportion. That is how things works in every Olympic sport.

You are seeing everything as the status NOW, but I am saying it is not how it should be if this sport is to reform properly as a global integrated and inclusive sport, which follows the same ideals Olympics sport are supposed to follow. There is something fundamentally wrong if ISU is happy with 75% majority qualified judges are all from Europe and only 25% the rest of the world, that they have no problem installing 100% european judges and they are not obligated to use the remaining 25%. These decisions are either deliberate, negligent, convenient, or poor management. I can tell you now if IOC says by 2022, we need 50 more qualified ISU judges from none European countries to create a more balanced panel that reflect the global view, it will happen. China will probably even be willing to pay for all 50. But the will has to be there, not kept as it is out of convenience, self serving when the sport clearly perpetuates an Eurocentric view. As such Asia, Australia, and Americas are clearly under represented, and actually, if you bother to go through the ladies FS historical records, hardly represented AT ALL.

 

[[email protected]]

Miyahara is still alive.

No doubt about that but in what shape? And how will the judges treat her? She is no Caro to miss a year and come back getting 109 combined pcs. Momentum is important these days. I would say that Satoko is in the same situation as Anna P and Polina T. Polina was the expected next big name and Anna beat Satoko in Boston. But I am not sure how they will be judged against Alina and Maria if everyone is clean. Same is true about Satoko - it's good that she is back. Let's wait and see.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

You are seeing everything as the status NOW, but I am saying it is not how it should be if this sport is to reform properly as a global integrated and inclusive sport, which follows the same ideals Olympics sport are supposed to follow. There is something fundamentally wrong if ISU is happy with 75% majority qualified judges are all from Europe and only 25% the rest of the world, that they have no problem installing 100% european judges and they are not obligated to use the remaining 25%. These decisions are either deliberate, negligent, convenient, or poor management. I can tell you now if IOC says by 2022, we need 50 more qualified ISU judges from none European countries to create a more balanced panel that reflect the global view, it will happen. China will probably even be willing to pay for all 50. But the will has to be there, not kept as it is out of convenience, self serving when the sport clearly perpetuates an Eurocentric view. As such Asia, Australia, and Americas are clearly under represented, and actually, if you bother to go through the ladies FS historical records, hardly represented AT ALL.

Well, if you can use a logic for a second you will never come with those kind of conclusions. But let me explain you again - The rules for all sports are the same. Every country who is part of organization can send one judge per competition... which is absolutely the right thing. Because only in that way more different countries could be involved... Its not ISU fault why more Americas, African and Asian countries are not part of their organization. There could be more judges in the panel from North America if Cuba, Dominicana, Bahami etc are involved, but they are not. So China, nor anybody cant pay 50 judges, because every country can propose only one judge and that decision is on country itself. But I guess, with your paranoid way of thinking you cant understand those things. Like you obviously cant understand why PCS is higher these days, when there is also simple logic behind that. Or maybe you think that's also some kind of European conspiracy (probably invented by evil Russians)?

 

[OS]

Well, if you can use a logic for a second you will never came with those kind of conclusions. But let me explain you again - The rules for all sports are the same. Every country who is part of organization can send one judge, which is absolutely the right thing. Because only in that way more different countries could be involved. Its not ISU fall why all Americas, African and Asian countries are not part of their organization. China, nor anybody cant pay 50 judges, because every country can propose one judge. But I guess, with your paranoid way of thinking you cant understand that. Like you obviously cant understand why PCS is higher these days, when there is also simple logic behind that. Or maybe you think that's also some kind of European conspiracy (probably invented by evil Russians)?

Oh yes, the usual revert back for conspiracy and evil Russia response. Why am I not surprised.

Opportunity makes the thief, and the thief won't be ashamed for robbing a mosque.

Even if all non european feds wanted to send their own judge, what is the point if ISU does not select them and only want to put together 100% European panels to serve their own purpose. They had 5 consecutive years, all failed. Using the tired excuse there are more of us than you should not be an valid excuse in 2017. Your logic is deeply flawed along with the ISU antipathy and inadvertent institutional discrimination. Where the privileged deprive minorities of their right to be represented and judged on equal terms.

For the record, I suggest China will help pay for 50 qualified judges worldwide to readdress the imbalanced judging panel that plagues this sport (as qualification is apparently the reason), not 50 from China who's the illogical one?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Oh yes, the usual revert back for conspiracy and evil Russia response. Why am I not surprised.

Opportunity makes the thief, and the thief won't be ashamed for robbing a mosque.

Even if all non european feds wanted to send their own judge, what is the point if ISU does not select them and only want to put together 100% European panels to serve their own purpose. They had 5 consecutive years, all failed. Using the tired excuse there are more of us than you should not be an valid excuse in 2017. Your logic is deeply flawed along with the ISU antipathy and inadvertent institutional discrimination. Where the privileged deprive minorities of their right to be represented and judged on equal terms.

For the record, I suggest China will help pay fo 50 qualified judges worldwide to readdress the imbalanced judging panel that plagues this sport (as qualification is apparently the reason), not 50 from China who's the illogical one?

But that was your narative, not ours. We just tried to tell you where some of your comments are out of logic. I was explaining to you how things works in every sport in the world. And you couldn understand those simple rules (which are made in first place to value opinions of every country who is part of it). And why do you even think some countries will send judges paid by other countries. Because every of those countries are corrupted? E: Judging panel is balanced because it represent countries who are involved (and have judges) in FS. When other countries decide to join FSU and educate their people to judge, there will be less European judges in the panel making it still balanced. If every country in the world became part of FSU with their own judge there will be (by the current system) one judge from North America, one from South America, one from Oceania, 2 from Europe, 2 from Africa and 2 from Asia. That kind of situation is happening in football, when judges from more countries are already involved. So, the system of chosing judges is perfectly fine.

 

[figurefan0726]

Actually, Anna Karenina was planned to be her exhibition, but I guess she changed it. Probably her old FS is her EX now.

 

[OS]

But that was your narative, not ours. We just tried to tell you where some of your comments are out of logic. I was explaining to you how things works in every sport in the world. And you couldn understand those simple rules (which are made in first place to value opinions of every country who is part of it). And why do you even think some countries will send judges paid by other countries. Because every of those countries are corrupted???

We can go for tit for tat, and you can carry on bringing your ridiculous distractions that still does not justify the near 100% European judges panel the last 5 consecutive years.
For the last time, when I suggest China will pay for it, I am obviously talking about paying the training cost of getting new judges trained and qualified, not paying them literally. This is to offset 75% majority European selection pool that has been used to justify the reason for the 100% European panel. I was also being a little sarcastic when it should be ISU's responsibility to ensure there should be a large portfolio of none-European judges to choose from and be included as an integral part of a well-balanced judging panel every year.
The issue has always been about judges panel selection.

 

[Yatagarasu]

but are you seriously telling me they could not find 10 qualified ISU judges in North/South America,

One judge per country.
Please remember this is the rule.

Now please yes, do the work and find overall 17 (or 7 not sure if you mean 10 per N/S) qualified judges (USA, Canada and Mexico already have them) in Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Panama, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and Trinidad and Tobago or Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela.

All of these overflowing with interest in figure skating, naturally.

Oh wait. No can do. They have to be ISU members first. Lets see what is left, shall we?

Brazil (and Colombia that is still only a provisional member).

That's it. That's the country that is the ISU member. Now I do not know if I've ever seen a Brazilian judge but there you go, you can look there.

As for the rest here's the deal - please start any interest in figure skating; please find ways of funding this; please find people who are interested enough to try judging; please try and inform them first that they are not going to be paid and have to pay at least some of their own expenses; please find a way to fund their education and certification; please find friendly federations willing to put them up for years through ranks so that they can get adequate judging experience to reach top levels (also some ways of funding these trips).

Easy right?

10 in the Asia/Australia region? Can not put all qualified judges worldwide on rotation? Instead always rely on the same group of judges. Why did they not bothered to get some, train some?

Australia and New Zealand have judges. So do countries active in figure skating from the rest of Asia, like Korea which we see often enough, I see an Uzbekistan judge too, Hong Kong and Kazakhstan.
I do not believe I've seen one from the Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Philippines, Thailand or Indonesia, or the provisional member Cambodia.

The same troubles appearing above, go for these and all non-member countries. So please do find a way for these folks as well. While you are there include India, Morocco, South Africa and United Arab Emirates.

The lack of variety, diversity representation breed Eurocentricism, which leads to the death of innovation, laziness, complacency and slanted results, as much as you want to disagree otherwise. The result is in the pudding.

Yes, obviously it is entirely the European judges that are at fault there. We don't hear different music because of the judging. Please provide evidence of lower scores for non-European music, while you're at it.

The fact judges are supposed to represent federation interest are already a huge conflict of interests and warning sign for possible corruption.

Yes, of course. This is how Europe rules this sport. I mean you'd almost think that the champion for men, in fact all three of them from Helsinki on the podium are from Asia, that the winner for ID is Canadian .. pairs Chinese ... oh the ladies winner is a Russian. Is she the only problem or are the other two ladies on the podium - non European ladies, also an issue?

And of course when we have North American or Asian judges they never judge for their own federations, or make deals ... it's just horrible, terrible Europeans and one giant European conspiracy.

I'll bow out now.

 

[asiacheetah]

One judge per country.
Please remember this is the rule.

Now please yes, do the work and find overall 17 (or 7 not sure if you mean 10 per N/S) qualified judges (USA, Canada and Mexico already have them) in Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Panama, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and Trinidad and Tobago or Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela.

All of these overflowing with interest in figure skating, naturally.

Oh wait. No can do. They have to be ISU members first. Lets see what is left, shall we?

Brazil (and Colombia that is still only a provisional member).

That's it. That's the country that is the ISU member. Now I do not know if I've ever seen a Brazilian judge but there you go, you can look there.

As for the rest here's the deal - please start any interest in figure skating; please find ways of funding this; please find people who are interested enough to try judging; please try and inform them first that they are not going to be paid and have to pay at least some of their own expenses; please find a way to fund their education and certification; please find friendly federations willing to put them up for years through ranks so that they can get adequate judging experience to reach top levels (also some ways of funding these trips).

Easy right?




Australia and New Zealand have judges. So do countries active in figure skating from the rest of Asia, like Korea which we see often enough, I see an Uzbekistan judge too, Hong Kong and Kazakhstan.
I do not believe I've seen one from the Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Philippines, Thailand or Indonesia, or the provisional member Cambodia.

The same troubles appearing above, go for these and all non-member countries. So please do find a way for these folks as well. While you are there include India, Morocco, South Africa and United Arab Emirates.



Yes, obviously it is entirely the European judges that are at fault there. We don't hear different music because of the judging. Please provide evidence of lower scores for non-European music, while you're at it.



Yes, of course. This is how Europe rules this sport. I mean you'd almost think that the champion for men, in fact all three of them from Helsinki on the podium are from Asia, that the winner for ID is Canadian .. pairs Chinese ... oh the ladies winner is a Russian. Is she the only problem or are the other two ladies on the podium - non European ladies, also an issue?

And of course when we have North American or Asian judges they never judge for their own federations, or make deals ... it's just horrible, terrible Europeans and one giant European conspiracy.

I'll bow out now.

SAVAGE!

 

[Lily flowers]

Yes, of course. This is how Europe rules this sport. I mean you'd almost think that the champion for men, in fact all three of them from Helsinki on the podium are from Asia, that the winner for ID is Canadian .. pairs Chinese ... oh the ladies winner is a Russian. Is she the only problem or are the other two ladies on the podium - non European ladies, also an issue?

I'll bow out now.

FINALLY someone said it!!!:clapper:

 

[Baron Vladimir]

One judge per country.
Please remember this is the rule.

Now please yes, do the work and find overall 17 (or 7 not sure if you mean 10 per N/S) qualified judges (USA, Canada and Mexico already have them) in Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Jamaica, Nicaragua, Panama, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and Trinidad and Tobago or Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Guyana, Paraguay, Peru, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela.

All of these overflowing with interest in figure skating, naturally.

Oh wait. No can do. They have to be ISU members first. Lets see what is left, shall we?

Brazil (and Colombia that is still only a provisional member).

That's it. That's the country that is the ISU member. Now I do not know if I've ever seen a Brazilian judge but there you go, you can look there.

I think he/she refuse to understand. Or maybe i should explained it better (but i thought, when people are commenting something they know the subject they are commenting on)

 

[[email protected]]

I think he/she refuse to understand. Or maybe i should explained it better (but i thought, when people are commenting something they know the subject they are commenting on)

I just envy your level-headed approach and tolerance.

 

[OS]

Let's not lose focus, shall we?

For the nth time, the issues have to do
judges selection,
disproportionate representation,
slanted panel in consecutive years that has
snowballed into wild inflation which made the sport uncompetitive except for a few
& finally what to do to try to solve it, improve it, rectify it, so representation can be more balanced and avoid the past 5 consecutive years of an overt European slant, which my opinion is the root of the problem. I have based on my argument from the actual panel selection and actual scoring trends.

And for the record, of course, it has to do with European inflation. Who else has been receiving unprecedented inflation during the past 5 years in the ladies? I love how people like to make this about me vs Russia, but fail to see inflation is generally extremely bad for the sport and I have been monitor scores for years, including defending Russia youngsters scoring (Liza and Julia on multiple boards) prior to Sochi, whereas after Sochi, they were part of the inflation particularly Liza 3T3T SP approach that i just don't agree with. I don't care where you are from, who you are (Hanyu, Javier, Miki, Mao, Carolina, Patrick, Boyang etc..), if you were able to benefit inflated marks, one: lucky you; two: it is extremely unfair for others, and judging trends should be monitored and corrected as soon as possible, not being taken advantage due to COP flaws for its own benefit. ISU has been pushing for European champions for years, just need someone as talented as Evegenia and Javier to deliver. But the subtle preference has always been there, seen in the scoring trend itself, particularly Kostner's PCS over the years.

One judge per country.
Please remember this is the rule.

Right, but do ISU remember this rule? Does that mean all federations get equal representation right, or just European countries deserve more 'equal' representation?
Let's stick to the actual panel cited again, shall we? These are just sample panels I bothered to check.


2013 WC (London, Canada) FS
Bulgaria, Estonia, Demark, Spain, Austria, South Africa, Great Britain, Switzerland, Georgia.
8/9 European Judges (If include Georgia EasternEurope, Western Asia)

2014 WC (Japan)
SP
Switzerland, Estonia, Austria, Sweden, Canada, Belgium, Australia, Germany, Great Britain
8/9 European Judges

FS
Australia, USA, Lithunaia, Germany, Canada, France, Ukrain, Sweden, Belgium
7/9 European Judges


2015 WC (China) FS
Slovakia, France, Ukraine, Russia, Germany, Czech Republic, Finland, Demark, Estonia
9/9 European Judges


2016 WC (Boston) FS
Ukraine, France, Korea, Netherland, Czech Republic, Finland, Canada, Lithunaia, Japan
7/9 European Judges

2017 WC (Helsinki) FS
Latvia, Czech Republic, Slovenia, France, Sweden, Austria, Japan, Norway, Switzerland
8/9 European Judges.



So according to the above sample size based on 6 biggest events past 5 consecutive years. Out of possible 54 representation (9x6)

These are all the REST OF THE WORLD representation over 5 consecutive years at 'WORLD' champioship ladies FS (+ SP during 2014)
China = 0
Japan = 2
Korea = 1
USA = 1
Canada = 1 x 2014 SP + FS, 1 x 2016 FS
Australia = 1
South Africa = 1 (Amazing!)

-------------

These are some of the European judges representation over the same 5 years on the same panels

France = 4
Austria = 4
Estonia = 3
Germany = 3
Sweden = 3
Switzerland = 3
Czech Republic = 3
Ukraine = 3
Lithunaia = 2
Great Britain = 2
Finland = 2
Belgium = 2

So much for there should be 50 countries that contain qualified ISU judges around the world to rotate from, and everyone gets equal turns, and there is no preferential treatment for Europeans. Despite 4/5 World championships all took place outside of Europe, including 2015 China with 100% European Panel. I guess no home advantages are allowed to others unless you are also a European. Quite clearly, judge selection can be used as much as to inflate as well contain host home advantages. The result and scoring trends speak for itself.

The slant lies squarely with ISU management.
-------------

As for the rest of your post. It was cited, the reason for the nr 100% EURO panel has to do with more European countries have qualified judges, which I accept, but disagree with it in principle that there should be such high proportion. If there are 35 out of 50 qualified judges from Europe, it would make sense to add minimum 20, and ideally 50 more from REST OF THE WORLD to offset the European majority based on a minimum 3 continents panel that would be the ideal global representation to minimise possible slants. Ideally the more diverse the better.

If you have better suggestions, do feel free.

And of course when we have North American or Asian judges they never judge for their own federations, or make deals ... it's just horrible, terrible Europeans and one giant European conspiracy.

Yeah well, like they had been given ANY opportunity at all as much as the Europeans gang... did you not follow the ladies event the past 5 years? LOL.... the man @ ISU bloomin' made sure the rest of the world never had a chance!! It would have been likened to pinch pennies from the master swindler anyway, who knows how it all works and doing such a fine job.

 

[Yatagarasu]

No, you still don't get it. Not to mention

Yeah well, like they had been given ANY opportunity at all as much as the Europeans gang... did you not follow the ladies event the past 5 years? LOL.... the man @ ISU bloomin' made sure the rest of the world never had a chance!! It would have been likened to pinch pennies from the master swindler anyway, who knows how it all works and doing such a fine job.

Oh now it's a European gang? So it's some sort of European Mafia? You do realize this is slander and illegal?

And you do realize you are essentially saying that they have for the five past year "fixed" the ladies competition? I suppose the true problem here is Medvedeva but if you want to accuse people of criminal activities of this scale I am so not touching that with a ten foot pole, especially when you do not even get the very basic facts of how things work and live in your own world.

Please contact the British Police with your findings to report this major European gang.

 

[OS]

No, you still don't get it. Not to mention



Oh now it's a European gang? So it's some sort of European Mafia? You do realize this is slander and illegal?

And you do realize you are essentially saying that they have for the five past year "fixed" the ladies competition? I suppose the true problem here is Medvedeva but if you want to accuse people of criminal activities of this scale I am so not touching that with a ten foot pole, especially when you do not even get the very basic facts of how things work and live in your own world.

Please contact the British Police with your findings to report this major European gang.

Yes it should be illegal but hardly slander if the name/countries/records are there in black and white? ie/ it happened, I did not make it up.

...and the only defence is 'You still don't get it'?! Pretty poor excuse.

Are you seriously saying 100% consecutive European Majority Panel over 5 years is perfectly fine and there couldn't be any possibilities it can lead to slanted judging and regional preferences, due to apparent 'Political correctness' (contrary to the history and the culture of this sport), and that there's ZERO chance either through circumstantial or unintentional consequences it can lead to similar shared views that affect the overall results?

Fine. Let's have 100% consecutive None European judge panels for the next 5 years and see what happens. Judges can't possibly have inherent biases or shared values. IOCS should be fine with that. Let's get it done. LOL like ISU will ever go for that.

Who knew the UN should only ever be represented by majority European, as they insist they are the more educated, more qualified and that they alone are most credible in determining fate of the 'world', without actually needing to involve the rest of the world except as bridesmaids to their homecoming dance.

 

[xeyra]

Yes it should be illegal but hardly slander if the name/countries/records are there in black and white? ie/ it happened, I did not make it up.

...and the only defence is 'You still don't get it'?! Pretty poor excuse.

Are you seriously saying 100% consecutive European Majority Panel over 5 years is perfectly fine and there couldn't be any possibilities it can lead to slanted judging and regional preferences, due to apparent 'Political correctness' (contrary to the history and the culture of this sport), and that there's ZERO chance either through circumstantial or unintentional consequences it can lead to similar shared views that affect the overall results?

Fine. Let's have 100% consecutive None European judge panels for the next 5 years and see what happens. Judges can't possibly have inherent biases or shared values. IOCS should be fine with that. Let's get it done. LOL like ISU will ever go for that.

Who knew the UN should only ever be represented by majority European, as they insist they are the more educated, more qualified and that they alone are most credible in determining fate of the 'world', without actually needing to involve the rest of the world except as bridesmaids to their homecoming dance.

So, what's your proposal? Have half the countries drawn randomly off a non-European pool and the rest drawn off an European pool so you have 50-50? Because when one draws randomly off the ISU member countries with enough qualified judges, and if the majority is European, then the probability will always end up being higher for European countries to make judging panels. It's not a conspiracy, just the laws of probability.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I just envy your level-headed approach and tolerance.

Well, i was educated in that way. I could also give psyhological diagnosis to someone, but this is not a right place for it