2018-19 Canadian figure skating

[4everchan]

^ YT poster to make ice dance version with V/M in 1st and include W/P also.

i think pairs would include D/R too

 

[Colonel Green]

The way the pairs field has been shaking down for the Grand Prix, at this point it's actually plausible that KMT and Marinaro could not only make the Final, but actually win a GPF medal. With no Sui/Han, in addition to Yu/Zhang, and Julianne and Charlie's split, the GPF gold is Tarasova and Morozov's as long as they don't injure themselves midway through the performance, and James/Cipres are probably the default silver medalists, but really anything could happen for the silver and especially bronze medals (in the latter case, I'd say Zabiyako/Enbert are the default, but KMT/Marinaro beat them in the free skate at Worlds under less than ideal conditions, so they're hardly insurmountable).

 

[4everchan]

GO MTM4gold!

 

[TGee]

Uhm, Colonel Green's analysis really makes me think that after this "anything can happen" off-season, we should be ready for a wild ride during the Grand Prix season.

Big take aways from Minto are that many skaters and teams are seizing opportunity, and that the revised IJS code of points and SoV play out in some unexpected ways.

So, I'd rather not be taking the 'glass half full' perspective.

Instead, I plan to sit back and enjoy seeing how the Canadians come about in this new quadrennial.

 

[Sabrina]

Scores drop or spike high with the -5+5 points. Canadian men look promising, and there are really too many potentially good guys for the 2 spots, at least for Worlds. Unfortunately ladies are not in the same boat. The three good girls are almost alone and Alaine is in a wild card spot, but I hope she will be back and skate well. And of the three Kaetlyn is almost in retiring mode. All the other ladies are way back. From juniors, I only find Aurora to have some chances, but I really don't know how well she evolves.

 

[BillNeal]

^ While I see your concerns, I think O4G made a good point before that the Canadian ladies tend to develop steadily and peak later in their careers. Look at how far Kaetlyn and Gabby have come from their World Junior appearances. They did go through their share of struggles before realizing their true potential and get on the World podium. I'd say give the other ladies, junior and senior some time to develop. Certainly the results of these two act as inspiration for the others to push forward. I think Montreal Worlds in two years are a good motivator for the ladies, including Kaetlyn, to stay in for two more seasons at least.

 

[TGee]

I thinks we need to be really clear that the bottom up major upheaval in training girls and women in Canada is not yet done.

Ten years ago the 'wait your turn' philosophy dominated in ladies singles.

And girls were NOT allowed to learn triples until peak growth and puberty were complete.

Fortunately, Sport Canada (the federal government policy and funding department), insisted that all national sports federations get on board with sports science.

Skate Canada had to come up with a Long Term Athlete Development Model. It turned things on its head by saying that since figure skating is an early specialization sport, girls needed to be getting the sport-specific technical skills much earlier.

So, now the system has girls getting the jumps earlier, but not all sections or coaches are transitioning at the same pace.

Kaetlyn, Gabby and Alaine are exceptions. And still they learned a lot things relatively late.

Kaetlynn who's family had already moved from Newfoundland to Montreal for her skating, refused to be held back and went to Alberta to train.

Alaine's parents took her on the road to whoever would work with her.

Gabby, the race horse as she was called by her early coaches, pushed her coaches hard for more jumps and moved to TCC when she'd reached the limits of what she could do with her early coaches.

So, this crop of Junior women is still part of the transition to the new science-based approach. It will be another 4 years before we see Juniors who came up completely under the new approach.

But that doesn't mean we won't see women who are able to do great things in the meantime.

 

[Sabrina]

Honestly, I remember Kaetlyn in Sochi (team event), though she skated a clean program, she only got the last spot in ladies. I wonder how did KO marks increased almost by 20 points, later. What was wrong in Sochi in her skating? Jumps were good and so were spins.

 

[4everchan]

Honestly, I remember Kaetlyn in Sochi (team event), though she skated a clean program, she only got the last spot in ladies. I wonder how did KO marks increased almost by 20 points, later. What was wrong in Sochi in her skating? Jumps were good and so were spins.

well, it's Russia

they wanted Kaetlyn to be last, to create the biggest gap possible between her and their girl, and Kevin to be behind Plushy in the team event... they also wanted to make sure VM wouldn't be ahead of the Americans...
and they managed = team gold for russia

 

[BillNeal]

Honestly, I remember Kaetlyn in Sochi (team event), though she skated a clean program, she only got the last spot in ladies. I wonder how did KO marks increased almost by 20 points, later. What was wrong in Sochi in her skating? Jumps were good and so were spins.

Kaetlyn was coming back from injury after missing the grand prix season. Keep in mind that she also skated first in both segments of the team competition so judges could have held back the marks. She definitely has improved a lot in the four years in between both technically, adding in the triple loop to her LP for example, and presentation-wise, better finish and polish for example.

As for general marking in Sochi for ladies, it's quite a controversial subject. Based on the performances, certain technical errors like URs were overlooked for some home competitors and PCS inflated (and GOE) relative to other skaters.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Honestly, I remember Kaetlyn in Sochi (team event), though she skated a clean program, she only got the last spot in ladies. I wonder how did KO marks increased almost by 20 points, later. What was wrong in Sochi in her skating? Jumps were good and so were spins.

Trust us Sabrina, KOs marks in Sochi particularly in the Team Event, were no where near what she did performance wise. She had the 3rd highest technical score of the ladies in both the SP and LP, but they gave her 5th place pcs in both programs which resulted in her finishing well back of the field, 'cause we all know Kaetlyn is not a performer, esp. with that ''Big Spender'' Bob Fosse program.

Can we agree Sabrina to never talk about Sochi again on this Thread. Just a sham it was for many reasons including as 4everchan mentioned, Kevin clearly outskating Plushy, and not getting rewarded.

 

[Colonel Green]

As the full JGP lineups come out one by one, I keep watch for who our team will be going up against. JGP Austria’s lineup most notably has Shevchenko/Eremenko in ice dance, so that’ll be Marjorie and Zach’s main competition. They faced each other three times last season, with L/L coming out ahead at JGP Croatia and Junior Worlds versus S/E placing ahead at the JGP Final.

 

[BillNeal]

^ That should be quite a showdown, 2 of the top 3 teams on this year's circuit facing off early. I like S/E as well, IMO the best in musicality and most innovative of the Russian ID juniors last season.

I'm hoping Makita/Gunara will get an assignment soon. I have watched their excellent Argentine Tango from Minto a few times already.

 

[Osmond4gold]

^ While I see your concerns, I think O4G made a good point before that the Canadian ladies tend to develop steadily and peak later in their careers. Look at how far Kaetlyn and Gabby have come from their World Junior appearances. They did go through their share of struggles before realizing their true potential and get on the World podium. I'd say give the other ladies, junior and senior some time to develop. Certainly the results of these two act as inspiration for the others to push forward. I think Montreal Worlds in two years are a good motivator for the ladies, including Kaetlyn, to stay in for two more seasons at least.

Thanks for the reminder Bill. Yes, Kaetlyn finished a respectable 10th in her one and only World Jr Champ., behind Yulia, Gracie, Adelina, Satoko, Christina G. and even Joshi. Kaetlyn had to go through prelims. also that year, and placed first. Gabby was 6th in her World Jr in 2013, behind Elena, Julia, Anna P. and Courtney. So both these ladies have demonstrated that they peaked later in their careers surpassing many who previously bested them in the junior ranks.

 

[TGee]

While staying entirely away from discussion of Sochi, I do believe that it is important to consider a couple of things that happened over the last quadrennial.

1) Kaetlyn matured and improved technically as well as opened up to sports psychology.

Kaetlyn has talked about how choreographer Lance Vipond has worked with her on capturing the focus of her audience in the first 30 second of her program. She's acknowledged that she had to relearn and change technique after a near career-ending injury. And she'd publicly discussed how she needed to come to terms with that injury and accept sports psychology support to move past it.

2). Kaetlyn had to overcome international judges' low expectations for Canadian women.

With more than 4 decades from Karen Magnussen's world title, it took a major shift in thinking for the ISU community to see Canadian women as contenders, despite Joannie Rochette's Olympic moment.

On this point, I think it's fair to say that having 3 women - Kaetlyn, Gabby and Alaine - pushing hard against those negative expectations, opened up people's minds to the possibility of Canadians at the top of the podium.

 

[chuckm]

Here were Kaetlyn's skates in the team event in Sochi (taken directly from the protocols):

SP: 3t+3t, 3f, 2a
Solid, and a good 4th placement.
FS: 3f+2t, 2a+3t, 3z↓, 3s, 2f, 3t+2t+2t, 2a
The fall and the doubled flip hurt her, as well as the somewhat easier technical content.

What should be remembered is that 2014 was Kaetlyn's 2nd senior season---she was a relative newbie compared to the rest of the field. Gracie was a relative newbie too, but she had considerably more difficult technical content and she delivered that at Sochi quite cleanly. Her PCS scores in the team FS were only slightly higher than Kaetlyn's, i.e. mid to upper 7s compared to Kaetlyn's mid to lower 7s.

 

[BillNeal]

1) Kaetlyn matured and improved technically as well as opened up to sports psychology.

Kaetlyn has talked about how choreographer Lance Vipond has worked with her on capturing the focus of her audience in the first 30 second of her program. She's acknowledged that she had to relearn and change technique after a near career-ending injury. And she'd publicly discussed how she needed to come to terms with that injury and accept sports psychology support to move past it.

Really shows. Saw her live at Skate Canada 2016. Fast, excellent ice coverage, huge 3F-3T, and nice projection to the audience. Even before skating her SP, I could see that she was the class of her warm-up group. She also looked gorgeous in her Edith Piaf dress and scarf . Fortunate enough to see her nail that program live and give her a well-deserved standing 'O.' Was so proud considering the difficulties she had to overcome at Skate Canada the season prior.

 

[4everchan]

Here were Kaetlyn's skates in the team event in Sochi (taken directly from the protocols):

SP: 3t+3t, 3f, 2a
Solid, and a good 4th placement.
FS: 3f+2t, 2a+3t, 3z↓, 3s, 2f, 3t+2t+2t, 2a
The fall and the doubled flip hurt her, as well as the somewhat easier technical content.

What should be remembered is that 2014 was Kaetlyn's 2nd senior season---she was a relative newbie compared to the rest of the field. Gracie was a relative newbie too, but she had considerably more difficult technical content and she delivered that at Sochi quite cleanly. Her PCS scores in the team FS were only slightly higher than Kaetlyn's, i.e. mid to upper 7s compared to Kaetlyn's mid to lower 7s.

SP : Kaetlyn finished 5th, behind Wagner who had an < on her combo and Asada who fell on a << 3a... Kaetlyn was clean in the SP and "could" have easily been put in 3rd.

LP: when looking at protocols, one sees that yes, she did have a fall and a pop, but her TES was still higher than Marchei and Suzuki (who had issues themselves, espeically Akiko with < ) who beat her on PCS... Nothing against the skaters... just saying that it was convenient to keep Kaetlyn as far as possible in both the SP and LP...

 

[4everchan]

and I agree with bill here... let's not talk Sochi in here there are plenty of that kind of talk elsewhere... I agree to move on

 

[BillNeal]

Ya why talk about that competition when we can discuss this one, where our Canadians were properly rewarded for their efforts.